worth getting a gen 2 ROE SC?

[gen2lover]

i HAVE AN 02 RT10. ALL STOCK EXCEPT FOR SMOOTH TUBES.

What can I expect with 5 pounds pulley? Tator said thats the most I can run with a stock gen 2 rt-10.

Never had a SC on any car. Will I notice a big difference in power? I better for 10 grand installed!? lol



PS not going to do a twin turbo..money is an issue.

And is there a "seat in your pants" difference stock vs. Roe on a stock Gen 2 rt? 5 pounds max.

[SquadX]

I believe 5 pounds is the min. you can run because to my knowledge thats the lowest they are available with. I have never driven a Roe car but from what I hear.....you will surely notice the difference, mainly in low end power. Since you have a 02 (cast pistons), 5lbs is probably all you want to run. You will need good tires like some PS2s to hook up all that power. Also, I assume who ever is installing this will tune it with a VEC 3 or SCT flash that now comes with the Roe. Just be careful as that is alot of power down low. I am sure someone will chime in with "you should do a paxton". But since money is not free and paxton does require more tuning, I would say stick with the Roe because both will give you same power outputs with keeping the bottom end stock (paxton may give you more peak).
Should put you around 550-575rwhp. Talk with RTTTT (Roe with mods putting out 720rwhp) or bottlefed as they both have Roe and like them. They could tell you have daily life with one is.

[gen2lover]

Chuck Tator probably will do it.VEC 3 huh? Do I need anything else for install not included with the SC?

5 minimum? I thought he said thats ALL I could do anyway (stock?)

[ViperTony]

Originally Posted by gen2lover

Chuck Tator probably will do it.VEC 3 huh? Do I need anything else for install not included with the SC?

5 minimum? I thought he said thats ALL I could do anyway (stock?)

Chuck is right, 5psi is the max you can safely put on a creampuff GenII. Anything more than that and you risk blowing your engine. 2000-2002 GenII's came with 'creampuff' cast pistons. '99 and earlier came with forged. The forged GenII's can handle more than 5psi. You could, of course, get Chuck to replace the pistons for you and go beyond 5psi but you're now heading into TT $$$ territory 'cause once you got the heads off you'll want to do other goodies: cam, bottom-end, porting...oh my.

Someone mentioned an SCT tuner for the Roe. The SCT tuner comes with the GenIII Roe kits, not GenII Roe kits. I believe the GenIII map sensor is more capable than the GenII's and can read boost. Hence, no need for the Vec3. Sean has a very detailed post on the GenIII Roe in the SRT forum. The GenII MAP sensor cannot read boost but the Vec3 does. You'll need the Vec3 and it comes with the Roe kit.

Best bet is to give Sean Roe a call. If you buy new from Sean you'll get everything you need. If you buy used, I'd still call Sean to make certain you got everything you need. Chuck is your best bet for help on this decision. He's installed MANY Roe's and can certainly steer you in the right direction.

DamnYankee has a 5psi Roe and absolutely loves it. Try reaching him to get advice. YES...you will feel more than a SOTP change in power. Bring extra undies and make certain your life insurance is current and your affairs are in order.

[99 R/T 10]

If you add water/Meth, you can probably go with the 6.5lbs pulley. You would probably then make over 600RWHP. Also, I think there is a Roe in the classifieds.

[dave6666]

Got beat by a Honda this past weekend didn't ya?

[gen2lover]

lol at Dave. no...

[RX VIPER]

gen2lover- I highly suggest you get a ride from someone in your area with a ROE s/c. I had been a Viper owner for 4 years before I got my first ride in a Roe s/c car in 2000. I was very impressed with the power and within 6 months I had one installed on my 96.

When I first had it put on I went with just a 5# to get used to the boost and was putting 570 rwhp. I now have a 7# and I'm at 626rwhp. I do also have the Vec II, bellanger headers and exhaust.

I would highly recommend BFG drag radials. They really hook and make owning a s/c car much more streetable.

[gen2lover]

thanks guys. but i dont know anyone in Windsor Ontario with a SC.

[Steve 00RT/10]

Originally Posted by gen2lover

thanks guys. but i dont know anyone in Windsor Ontario with a SC.

There are some in Detroit which I'm sure you could be hooked up with. I know of 2 off the top of my head. One is a GEN I with the basic 5 pounder. We have two 5 pound Roes. They are a self install kit and worthwhile doing yourself. Dick Scott Dodge in Plymouth, MI has put some on. They have an excellent Viper mechanic there. With water/meth, you can go to a 6.5 pound pulley, but we kept it simple. The 5 pounder will work much better if it can breathe better. ie: headers, 3" pipe, high lift roller rockers. Power improvements with a 5 pounder should see you about equal to the 08 Viper, maybe a little better if you open up the breathing. I also changed to a 3.45 rear end and put a lightweight flywheel on. I think it's the perfect set up for a 5 pounder. Heads would be the only other mod I would consider and only then if something broke. We are quite happy with the car just the way it is. We have 35K Roe miles between the two cars. I think it's a worthwhile addition.

You definitely need to put a O2 wide band set up on there if you go with a Roe. You're running blind without it.

Steve

[CitySnake]

I ran with the 5 lb. pulley for over 20,000 miles (after 25,000 stock- I may be off a bit). There's a major difference in HP/TQ with the 5 lbs. Probably adds between 110 and 130 HP depending on the tune, intake and exhaust. The difference is FAR greater than what it seems you are anticipating. HP addition is VERY noticeable since it begins at 2,000 RPM with Sean's set up, so everyday drives will be greatly enhanced. No need to bring your revs over 4,000 RPM to get the hit of power.

PM me if you've got questions.

[Steve 00RT/10]

Originally Posted by CitySnake

I ran with the 5 lb. pulley for over 20,000 miles (after 25,000 stock- I may be off a bit). There's a major difference in HP/TQ with the 5 lbs. Probably adds between 110 and 130 HP depending on the tune, intake and exhaust. The difference is FAR greater than what it seems you are anticipating. HP addition is VERY noticeable since it begins at 2,000 RPM with Sean's set up, so everyday drives will be greatly enhanced. No need to bring your revs over 4,000 RPM to get the hit of power.

PM me if you've got questions.

I completely agree. The power is explosive...likely more TQ more down low (and total TQ) than the new Viper. I think a basic 5 pounder is in the 540-550 HP range on a GEN II...also a little higher than the new Viper. Everyday drives are probably 99% of all Viper driving. They are not that hard to install. ....Good 'bonding experience' with your ride!

An added benefit as stated by City Snake is keeping the revs lower, thereby adding engine life. Even when really into the throttle, I try to never shift past 5500. (OK...I have hit the rev limiter a few times due to smoking tires ) If I can catch it, I prefer to shift around 5200-5300 RPM. No reason to go much higher.

The 5 pounder I refer to above was a self install. I'm sure he would be more than willing to give you a ride if it's not put away yet. I can put you in touch if you want.

Steve

[ViperTony]

Since we have two fine gentlemen here with experience using the 5psi Roe maybe you guys can help me. One of the frustrations I have is finding a dyno chart, log, etc. of how a 5psi Roe performs on a GenII Viper. A before/after Roe dyno would be magnificent. There doesn't appear to be that many posts on the subject. Even Roe's site doesn't have a dyno chart of a GenII with 5psi so it's difficult for me to understand how this setup would perform. My question is: Can you guys post your numbers, dyno, mods you did along with your Roe?

Currently, I have an '01 RT/10 with Belanger Headers/Catback, RT cats, T&D Rockers, tubes/filters and a Vec3. Prior to the rockers, I dyno'd at 480rwhp and 525rwtq but was still rich. The engine is strong and the guys at Paddock kept telling me the Viper kept making more peak power after each run. I haven't changed my tune yet but I figure with the rockers I'm at or just over 500rwhp.

I'm interested to know what I can reasonably expect in terms of HP/TQ on my setup with a 5psi Roe? Peak number is OK but I'd love to know what the power looks like under the peaks. I have to imagine there's monster torque at the lower-mid range RPMs.

Thx.

[gen2lover]

my impression was on a stock gen 2 you did not need any mods or change anything.I would like to keep everything else stock if i can? exhaust headers etc..?

[ViperTony]

Originally Posted by gen2lover

my impression was on a stock gen 2 you did not need any mods or change anything.I would like to keep everything else stock if i can? exhaust headers etc..?

YES, you can keep everything stock. I chose not to.

[Steve 00RT/10]

Originally Posted by ViperTony

Since we have two fine gentlemen here with experience using the 5psi Roe maybe you guys can help me. One of the frustrations I have is finding a dyno chart, log, etc. of how a 5psi Roe performs on a GenII Viper. A before/after Roe dyno would be magnificent. There doesn't appear to be that many posts on the subject. Even Roe's site doesn't have a dyno chart of a GenII with 5psi so it's difficult for me to understand how this setup would perform. My question is: Can you guys post your numbers, dyno, mods you did along with your Roe?

Currently, I have an '01 RT/10 with Belanger Headers/Catback, RT cats, T&D Rockers, tubes/filters and a Vec3. Prior to the rockers, I dyno'd at 480rwhp and 525rwtq but was still rich. The engine is strong and the guys at Paddock kept telling me the Viper kept making more peak power after each run. I haven't changed my tune yet but I figure with the rockers I'm at or just over 500rwhp.

I'm interested to know what I can reasonably expect in terms of HP/TQ on my setup with a 5psi Roe? Peak number is OK but I'd love to know what the power looks like under the peaks. I have to imagine there's monster torque at the lower-mid range RPMs.

Thx.

That is one strong engine Tony! Here is a dyno sheet on our 2001 Bumblebee. We bought this car as is. I was unable to log when we bought it as the original VECs didn't have that capability. I upgraded the VEC and added the WB set up. My initial logs showed these dyno numbers were achieved with mid to high 9 AFR. WAAY rich. I have it tuned much better now at mid 11s AFR. Not sure how much added power, but I know it is stronger. There is no dyno within 400-500 miles from here. It's my opinion that logging is the most effective way to get a real life tune. I think this dyno sheet does show the massive TQ available from 2600-4200 RPM...basically 570-586 TQ. Right across the graph.

The cars are somewhat similar:

2001: 5 pounder, Belanger headers, Corsa 3" track exhaust, Fidanza lightweight flywheel,tubes,filters
2000 car: 5 pounder, Belanger headers, Belanger 3" exhaust, Fidanza Lightweight flywheel, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 3.45 rear end, tubes, filters

The 00 car is definitely stronger. I had it dynoed in Detroit a long time ago...I think 2002. Just the exhaust was on then. It was 439HP/481TQ. I have no other dyno numbers since. All the SC tuning was done by log runs.

One possible way to measure would be by log run snapshots of different speeds and ETs. One measure I look at are 3rd gear logs: 2750 RPM to 5500 RPM. We could compare those for you to get a rough idea of the power adder of the Roe.

Hope this gives you an idea

Steve

[Bobpantax]

I had an 8lb system on a 99GTS. It was over 500 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels at 1800 RPM. The five pound system is not that far behind in power. Because the Roe power comes in at very low RPMs, you need to have the skill to use it. ( No cold tires. No old ties. Plenty of tread. ) The difference between stock and the car with the Roe is day and night. You also need to have it installed and adjusted by someone like The Wizard who has extensive experience with the system. Sean installed mine. You should discuss the fuel distribution issue with Sean or Chuck to make sure that the rich issue to #10 cylinder has been cured. I think it has but I am not sure. Check. Also, check to make sure that the weather sensitive issues have been cured. The system, from a visual point of view, is the best. People will go nuts when you open your hood.

[ViperTony]

Thanks guys for the info. Steve: I absolutely love that torque line...it must be a blast to drive. If all goes well I will be installing Roe next spring. Unfortunately, this **** economy has put a hold on a number of things. In the meantime, I will continue to research and be in awe of your setups.

[Red Snake]

I am running 10 pounds with W/M in it is an ANIMAL.

Over 660/710 at the wheels.




I can't imagine driving a "stock" Viper.

[gen2lover]

HOW MUCH MORE FOR A POLISHED ROE?

Do you get that nice whistle sound? Is there any buttons to push when driving an all-stock car with roe 5 pound?

My viper fishtails now,I'd hate to imagine? with the SC on it

RedSnake-lol. I want more power soon! yes,yes,yes....

[Steve 00RT/10]

Originally Posted by Bobpantax

I had an 8lb system on a 99GTS. It was over 500 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels at 1800 RPM. The five pound system is not that far behind in power. Because the Roe power comes in at very low RPMs, you need to have the skill to use it. ( No cold tires. No old ties. Plenty of tread. ) The difference between stock and the car with the Roe is day and night. You also need to have it installed and adjusted by someone like The Wizard who has extensive experience with the system. Sean installed mine. You should discuss the fuel distribution issue with Sean or Chuck to make sure that the rich issue to #10 cylinder has been cured. I think it has but I am not sure. Check. Also, check to make sure that the weather sensitive issues have been cured. The system, from a visual point of view, is the best. People will go nuts when you open your hood.

Any VEC box with firmware update 5.108 and a box number 682 or higher has all the tools for proper cylinder trim. Our 00 car was box number 715 bought in 3/06. so I guess it safe to say that the rich back cylinder issues have been resolved for almost 3 yrs. Our 00 blower was a 6th production run unit which also had the intake box modified from original for this problem as well. Our 01 car has the 1st production run blower on it. All our plugs burn the same.

The weather issue was addressed with the VEC 3. VEC 2s can be upgraded. It's not perfect, as the IAT temp and SC charge air temp are not linear. Using a WB for tuning, this becomes a relative number for AFR. I think it works quite well. I have one card now...good for 30F to 100F.

Originally Posted by gen2lover

HOW MUCH MORE FOR A POLISHED ROE?

Do you get that nice whistle sound? Is there any buttons to push when driving an all-stock car with roe 5 pound?

My viper fishtails now,I'd hate to imagine? with the SC on it

RedSnake-lol. I want more power soon! yes,yes,yes....

At 1200 RPM is where there is a nice little whistle. There are some clips out there which have a ROE SC car coming at the camera at speed. Sounds like a jet engine.

Steve

[Steve 00RT/10]

Originally Posted by Steve 00RT/10

At 1200 RPM is where there is a nice little whistle. There are some clips out there which have a ROE SC car coming at the camera at speed. Sounds like a jet engine.

Steve

Here's a clip I found. It's been around for a while. Sounds like Belanger headers to me.

Supercharged Viper- Video

Steve

[eucharistos]

Supercharged Viper- Video

1 of my favorite vids. whine and rumble sounds sweeeeet

[Red Snake]

Originally Posted by Steve 00RT/10

Here's a clip I found. It's been around for a while. Sounds like Belanger headers to me.

Supercharged Viper- Video

Steve

I have the same set up....Belangers, no cats, Corsa track exhaust, Roe S/C. The weird thing is that from inside the car you can't hear any whine at all.

[ViperTony]

Originally Posted by Red Snake

I have the same set up....Belangers, no cats, Corsa track exhaust, Roe S/C. The weird thing is that from inside the car you can't hear any whine at all.

I supposed you could install a mic near the S.C. and play it through your stereo.

[rsmitchell10]

Originally Posted by Steve 00RT/10

There are some in Detroit which I'm sure you could be hooked up with. I know of 2 off the top of my head. One is a GEN I with the basic 5 pounder. We have two 5 pound Roes. They are a self install kit and worthwhile doing yourself. Dick Scott Dodge in Plymouth, MI has put some on. They have an excellent Viper mechanic there. With water/meth, you can go to a 6.5 pound pulley, but we kept it simple. The 5 pounder will work much better if it can breathe better. ie: headers, 3" pipe, high lift roller rockers. Power improvements with a 5 pounder should see you about equal to the 08 Viper, maybe a little better if you open up the breathing. I also changed to a 3.45 rear end and put a lightweight flywheel on. I think it's the perfect set up for a 5 pounder. Heads would be the only other mod I would consider and only then if something broke. We are quite happy with the car just the way it is. We have 35K Roe miles between the two cars. I think it's a worthwhile addition.

You definitely need to put a O2 wide band set up on there if you go with a Roe. You're running blind without it.

Steve

Steve, what do you mean by O2 wide band set up?

[Steve 00RT/10]

Originally Posted by Red Snake

I have the same set up....Belangers, no cats, Corsa track exhaust, Roe S/C. The weird thing is that from inside the car you can't hear any whine at all.

You should be able to hear the whistle around 1200 RPM while cruising through the hood. Both our cars whistle nicely at that RPM. 4th gear with the 00 and 3rd gear with the 01

Originally Posted by rsmitchell10

Steve, what do you mean by O2 wide band set up?

Go to the GEN II tuning section on this forum. There is lots of info about all this. In a quick nutshell. A wide band oxygen sensor placed in the exhaust stream (typically the collector area) is able to send a signal to your wide band auxiliary meter, denoting your AFR (air/fuel ratio). With a 5 pound Roe SC car (no water/meth)...11.5 AFR to 11.9 or so is the targeted number. (as opposed to a naturally aspirated car which can run leaner -- roughly 12.7 AFR I think) Knowing this number enables maximum tuning because the VEC can be programmed to add/subtract fuel as required at WOT. This AFR number becomes very important as the outside ambient temperature changes. Particularly on cold days. You will run too lean and risk engine damage if the car is not tuned properly for the lower temperature (more fuel). Conversely, on a hot day, you will run too rich --- which can't really hurt the engine, but performance will suffer.

If you add a Roe SC, and will only drive it in the temp it was tuned at, you will have no issues without a wide band set up. however if you drive your car in varying climates, I believe it a must to see the AFR. My meter is mounted on the steering wheel. BUT...the VEC 3(VEC 2s can be upgraded) has a tool which can take care of this problem fairly well. The IAT function. I don't hear a lot of people talking about it, but it works quite well. I have it dialed in for basically any temp we run in (30F-100F)

Damn Yankee has some excellent tutorials in the tuning section on how some of this stuff goes together.

It's not very complicated, but is a lot to absorb at one time. Try cruising through the tuning section and doing a little studying.

Steve

[Red Snake]

Originally Posted by Steve 00RT/10

You should be able to hear the whistle around 1200 RPM while cruising through the hood. Both our cars whistle nicely at that RPM. 4th gear with the 00 and 3rd gear with the 01 ........................................

Steve

Have never tried 1200 rpms. I only have 2 speeds, off and WOT.

[Kmrumedy]

Just be careful. The new power curve takes a learning curve. I only know 2 people locally that put on SC's and both totaled their cars last year after doing it. They updated the engine but not the brakes.

[Tusc]

Sure it was the brakes, and not an error in the traction control unit between the steering wheel and the pedals?

It takes converts time before they respect the torque of base Vipers. It seems natural that there be an equal learning curve but with greater importance when you are talking about putting 500 lb/ft down before reaching 2000rpm.

So the first thing that comes to mind is not being properly experienced or trained. Going cheap and not rounding out the car's setup with adequate components is, of course, a possibility.