Gen 3 throttle body

[Nader]

Originally Posted by fqberful

My side-to-side is a few thousands at most. I know he warns against changing that stop but if you're careful and insure you set it so the plate doesn't hit the body then a small adjustment is just that. This was my last ditch effort to fix this issue and it worked. Given the edge area of this plate, even a small gap could easily over run the the ability to compensate of the IAC. Now I'll do this prior to installing the next one.

Taking an initial measurement of the lever to the body next to the stop is an easy way to return it to the factory setting just in case and to see how much of a change you really made.

My side to side is a few thousands also. Let me make sure I understand. You are basically setting the set screw to stop the throttle body from fully closing itself? Just at prior to it being fully closed? Can you give me an idea of how much you turned your set screw? Also if i check my car and find that their is space between the set screw and throttle body arm when closed, then it needs to be adjusted?

I appreciate your help. I just want to make sure I understand what you did.

Thanks.

Tom

[PJJP]

I need help too. same issue.

[fqberful]

Originally Posted by Nader

My side to side is a few thousands also. Let me make sure I understand. You are basically setting the set screw to stop the throttle body from fully closing itself? Just at prior to it being fully closed? Can you give me an idea of how much you turned your set screw? Also if i check my car and find that their is space between the set screw and throttle body arm when closed, then it needs to be adjusted?

I appreciate your help. I just want to make sure I understand what you did.

Thanks.

Tom

I did this with the TB OFF the car. This is necessary so you can feel the shaft and plate, at least for me it was anyway. Then I used a feeler gauge and measured the gap between the linkage tab and the TB housing right next to the set screw, it was about 0.029. I backed the set screw out in 1/8 turn increments until the plate hit the TB inside. Then eased it back in with 1/16th turn increments until it didn't hit the inside of the TB. I fine tuned it from there a little. Really simple but it does require a good "feel". You need to open and close the plate after every adjustment several times in order to verify your "feel" as to whether or not it's hitting. So yes, you want to stop the throttle plate just prior to it hitting the TB housing.

I suppose as an alternate method you could just back it out until it's flush then wind it in in small increments until the throttle plate doesn't hit any more but I wanted to do a minimum of turning and be able to count total movement .. In all I think I backed it out about 1/4 turn or slightly less but better about 0.019 gap reduction. Judging by the machining on the inside of the TB where it mates to the plate and the coarseness of the set screw, I'd say this could vary quite a bit and that's why you need to do it strictly by feel. Turns aren't a good way to measure this, you need to measure the gap between the link arm tab and the housing right next to the set screw in order to determine how much you've moved it.

The set screw will hold the plate slightly open, it will create a gap between the linkage tab and the housing and should, I just reduced the gap slightly which allowed the plate to more fully close so the IAC could control the idle. Most all the idle air needs to be controlled by the PCM via the IAC so the throttle plate should be 99.9% closed. You don't want the plate banging on the housing and you want the throttle arm to hit the hard set screw not the aluminum housing. Your gap values here will vary, I suspect quite a bit.

[X-Metal]

Originally Posted by fqberful

My side-to-side is a few thousands at most. I know he warns against changing that stop but if you're careful and insure you set it so the plate doesn't hit the body then a small adjustment is just that. This was my last ditch effort to fix this issue and it worked. Given the edge area of this plate, even a small gap could easily over run the the ability to compensate of the IAC. Now I'll do this prior to installing the next one.

Taking an initial measurement of the lever to the body next to the stop is an easy way to return it to the factory setting just in case and to see how much of a change you really made.

you can back out the stop screw just like you did, because you did it carefully, a little goes a long way.
it sounds to me as if Nader needs to just back off his stop screw just a 1/10 of turn to the left-(with the battery and ecm disconnected!!) and that will put enough play into the linkage so the TPS can self regulate faster.
i have seen where if the throttle cable itself doesnt have enough slack in it this same thing occurs. the linkage is slotted where it bolts to the manifold, so it can be adjusted.

you are supposed to have some side to side movement-that is important that it does have some. that is normal

Tom, try to turn the stop screw just to the left maybe a 1/10-1/8 of turn to the left (disconnect the ecm and battery first!!) and lets try that. also while you are there feel your throttle cable and see that there is a little play in it. it should not be tight. it should move about 1/2" either direction before any tension is felt when it starts to pull on the linkage or the accelerator pedal. call me after you do this. we will get you dialed in.

[PJJP]

I also feel a slight sticking when I press the pedal. must be the blade rubbing.

[X-Metal]

Originally Posted by PJJP

I also feel a slight sticking when I press the pedal. must be the blade rubbing.

sometimes a simple tap with a plastic screwdriver handle on the linkage will realingn it for you, double check your blade alignment per the instructions. also, just the heat cycles from driving it will usally work it all in. how many miles have do you have so far?

[Nader]

Originally Posted by X-Metal

you can back out the stop screw just like you did, because you did it carefully, a little goes a long way.
it sounds to me as if Nader needs to just back off his stop screw just a 1/10 of turn to the left-(with the battery and ecm disconnected!!) and that will put enough play into the linkage so the TPS can self regulate faster.
i have seen where if the throttle cable itself doesnt have enough slack in it this same thing occurs. the linkage is slotted where it bolts to the manifold, so it can be adjusted.

you are supposed to have some side to side movement-that is important that it does have some. that is normal

Tom, try to turn the stop screw just to the left maybe a 1/10-1/8 of turn to the left (disconnect the ecm and battery first!!) and lets try that. also while you are there feel your throttle cable and see that there is a little play in it. it should not be tight. it should move about 1/2" either direction before any tension is felt when it starts to pull on the linkage or the accelerator pedal. call me after you do this. we will get you dialed in.

I am not close to my car at the movement but i was thumbing through some pics and found one that I think discribes what you are talking about. The set screw seems to be extended a 1/16th or so and stopping the blade arm. It certainly looks like I can back it out a bit which should close the throttle more. Is this the way it should look? Is my set screw too far in?

[PJJP]

X-Metal, I have about 40 miles on it so far.

[X-Metal]

Originally Posted by PJJP

X-Metal, I have about 40 miles on it so far.

it will typically take 200 miles for the ecm to self adjust to any mods. drive it-like you stole it!

[X-Metal]

i would say looking at the pics you need to slide your cable bracket slighty towards the TB to put some slack into the cable. do that and back the stop screw to the left an 1/8 turn.
disconnect the battery and ecm first. after wards give it 200 miles to adpat.
that should fix you right up.

[29OUTLAW]

Finally got mine on today.

It's too cold to go out driving but running in the garage, everything seemed fine. Idles right at 800rpm (where it did before) and returns to this level instantly after gunning the engine. Could I be one of the lucky ones? I guess I'll know for sure after driving around.

Nevertheless, I didn't get those pretty bolts seen in Nader's picture. I had to reuse the fugly stock ones.

BTW - my gap at the stop screw came in at .018 as-is.

[X-Metal]

Originally Posted by 29OUTLAW

Finally got mine on today.

It's too cold to go out driving but running in the garage, everything seemed fine. Idles right at 800rpm (where it did before) and returns to this level instantly after gunning the engine. Could I be one of the lucky ones? I guess I'll know for sure after driving around.

Nevertheless, I didn't get those pretty bolts seen in Nader's picture. I had to reuse the fugly stock ones.

BTW - my gap at the stop screw came in at .018 as-is.

i just saw this, if i dint get you any bolts, call me, and i will send some out today for you.
thanks
gary 812-477-1740

[Canyon707]

Originally Posted by Shandon

Hey nader. I just installed mine Friday. Do use the piece of paper thing the front page of the instruction worked good for me . It "plate" doesn't touch anywhere and is very smooth. I had no problems with the tps sensor at all. Just take your time and it's a breeze. You will be impressed with the throttle response. I am going to shoot some photos and give result after my dyno this friday on it. PM me if you need any input on the install or im sure gary will help you too.

Dyno results?????

[Canyon707]

Originally Posted by Copperhead245

Same boat (including stocks) - but no regrets here. By the way "Nader", did you figure out what's up with your idle (mine is still dead on)?



I'd like to see "independent" test results as well. Since have no "before" reference and have done other mods as well, if/when I get on a dyno that won't help. But again, no regrets because I certainly did/do feel an improved throttle response - thanks Gary (X-Metal).

Just to be fair to those that might not know, Sean Roe (whom I've bought a few things from) is also selling a TB for considerably less (for a one-off price). I believe Sean claims improved response but not increased HP (which makes some sense to me) - so that's even more reason I'd like to see proof that X-Metal adds HP.

Did I mention "no regrets" - definately worth the bang-for-the-buck...

Ron

check out my results on my thread on dynos I installed the TB hp up one torque down 7 but there is issues with the whole dyno process.

[X-Metal]

Originally Posted by Canyon707

check out my results on my thread on dynos I installed the TB hp up one torque down 7 but there is issues with the whole dyno process.

yes, anytime you dyno anything for comparisons, you must dyno before and after on the same dyno setup if at possible. meaning, run the stock components and then run the new perfomance mods on the same day, with the car not being moved off the dyno.
no 2 dyno runs can be replicated. there are too many variables. you cant compare one best run to another. the most scientific way is run the vehicle 3 times and take an average of those 3 runs, then make your mods, then do 3 more runs. and use that average.
there are so many variables that can skew a dyno result; some are the obvious, like air temp and humidity.
but there are things that savy dyno operators try to duplicate every time; like strap tension, on the rear of the car can change 5-10 hp, by over tight or too loose rear straps.
tire pressure--a big one too, more tire pressure reduces the rolling resistance, and helps show more power. we deflate the tires on a car and refill with nitrogen, as air pressure will change with tire temp changes and nitrogen in a tire will stay the same. your air presure is different after the third dyno run than it was at the first.
where the fans are placed, each time.
on a single rear drum dyno (most dynojets) where the tire contact patch is located, on the drum.is the car dead nuts centered or forward or back of the center of the drum. is the car completely straight on the drum?
another VERY important dyno graph to have your dyno operator pull up for you is an elapsed time run. instead of having the graph read rpm or speed, have him change the dyno to TIME. you may do a mod that doenst make more peak horsepower, BUT it will make more power thru the curve, and that will show the engine reaching its peak power sooner. think of it as 2 cars can both go 150mph and turn 6000 rpms doing it, but the one that reaches that speed first is obviously the fastet and the one that is desired.
TIME run graphs on a dyno are VERY important.
we had a client who had a cam put in his gen3. it made great rwhp, of 570hp. but it was a dog to drive, so i overlapped his dyno run with a well tuned stock cam engine that only made 500hp. when both runs are viewed on a TIME graph, the 500hp engine made over 140hp more everywhere except at peak power. thats what you want to see, you are only at peak power for an instant, you run thru the curve for the lenght of time you are in each gear. TIME shows how effecient an engine is at making its power.
you must always compare apples to apples when doing dyno runs, as a dyno run will only show what your current setup is-on that dyno at that time, you could redyno the exact same car by taking it off the dyno putting it back on and they see a 10hp difference!

take very accurate notes, moniter tire pressure, make sure the straps are in the exact same place as before and try to record strap tension, look at your weather data results. ask your dyno tech when the last time his dyno was serviced and or what is the current calibration rate. dynos are great tools, but your butt and a drag strip can be more usefull sometimes. if anyone ever has any tuning questions, please dont hesitate to email or contact me anytime.