Gen 3 throttle body

[Canyon707]

Originally Posted by X-Metal

yes, anytime you dyno anything for comparisons, you must dyno before and after on the same dyno setup if at possible. meaning, run the stock components and then run the new perfomance mods on the same day, with the car not being moved off the dyno.
no 2 dyno runs can be replicated. there are too many variables. you cant compare one best run to another. the most scientific way is run the vehicle 3 times and take an average of those 3 runs, then make your mods, then do 3 more runs. and use that average.
there are so many variables that can skew a dyno result; some are the obvious, like air temp and humidity.
but there are things that savy dyno operators try to duplicate every time; like strap tension, on the rear of the car can change 5-10 hp, by over tight or too loose rear straps.
tire pressure--a big one too, more tire pressure reduces the rolling resistance, and helps show more power. we deflate the tires on a car and refill with nitrogen, as air pressure will change with tire temp changes and nitrogen in a tire will stay the same. your air presure is different after the third dyno run than it was at the first.
where the fans are placed, each time.
on a single rear drum dyno (most dynojets) where the tire contact patch is located, on the drum.is the car dead nuts centered or forward or back of the center of the drum. is the car completely straight on the drum?
another VERY important dyno graph to have your dyno operator pull up for you is an elapsed time run. instead of having the graph read rpm or speed, have him change the dyno to TIME. you may do a mod that doenst make more peak horsepower, BUT it will make more power thru the curve, and that will show the engine reaching its peak power sooner. think of it as 2 cars can both go 150mph and turn 6000 rpms doing it, but the one that reaches that speed first is obviously the fastet and the one that is desired.
TIME run graphs on a dyno are VERY important.
we had a client who had a cam put in his gen3. it made great rwhp, of 570hp. but it was a dog to drive, so i overlapped his dyno run with a well tuned stock cam engine that only made 500hp. when both runs are viewed on a TIME graph, the 500hp engine made over 140hp more everywhere except at peak power. thats what you want to see, you are only at peak power for an instant, you run thru the curve for the lenght of time you are in each gear. TIME shows how effecient an engine is at making its power.
you must always compare apples to apples when doing dyno runs, as a dyno run will only show what your current setup is-on that dyno at that time, you could redyno the exact same car by taking it off the dyno putting it back on and they see a 10hp difference!

take very accurate notes, moniter tire pressure, make sure the straps are in the exact same place as before and try to record strap tension, look at your weather data results. ask your dyno tech when the last time his dyno was serviced and or what is the current calibration rate. dynos are great tools, but your butt and a drag strip can be more usefull sometimes. if anyone ever has any tuning questions, please dont hesitate to email or contact me anytime.

Thanks for the better dialog on this. Chris Canyon I also want to add a few things on this thread. IAs far as I know the dynoed car should run 1 to 1 my 04 with 3:73 gears is not happening in 4th gear. I tried 5th gear run only to reach the top of the Mustang Dyon at 150 and it had not even really ramped up. The dyno jet which can go higher showed more but we never did 5th gear. Like Gary mentioned its all a variable. Gary quick question here. Does the PCM needto adjust itself as well after the TB mod????? my fuel ratioo is is running about 12.52 from 3500 to 5800 and a bit about 15 from 2800 to 3500. power is maxed at 5300. max hp 452.35 and torque is 471.12 with these gears in 4th. Comments????

[X-Metal]

Originally Posted by Canyon707

Thanks for the better dialog on this. Chris Canyon I also want to add a few things on this thread. IAs far as I know the dynoed car should run 1 to 1 my 04 with 3:73 gears is not happening in 4th gear. I tried 5th gear run only to reach the top of the Mustang Dyon at 150 and it had not even really ramped up. The dyno jet which can go higher showed more but we never did 5th gear. Like Gary mentioned its all a variable. Gary quick question here. Does the PCM needto adjust itself as well after the TB mod????? my fuel ratioo is is running about 12.52 from 3500 to 5800 and a bit about 15 from 2800 to 3500. power is maxed at 5300. max hp 452.35 and torque is 471.12 with these gears in 4th. Comments????

she needs a bit more fuel in the 2800-3500, for sure. you changed your air intake setup at the same time you switched your TB. do you have a dyno pull with your old air intake?
we might need to get your pcm sent to us, so i can add some more fuel to it, and in turn you will make some more power and torque everywhere. i would need 3 current back to back pulls with AF curves, and we could write a custom program for it, and really wake her up!

[Canyon707]

I have a few pulls 3 with corsas and my RSI with K&N filters. 3 with DC Performance,pcm adjust w/RSI air and 3 with new Tb and K&N and the Corsa's I will put it together and email them to you. Need and email address Gary.

Thanks Chris

[X-Metal]

Originally Posted by Canyon707

I have a few pulls 3 with corsas and my RSI with K&N filters. 3 with DC Performance,pcm adjust w/RSI air and 3 with new Tb and K&N and the Corsa's I will put it together and email them to you. Need and email address Gary.

Thanks Chris

sounds good
gary@esuperbike.com

[evomind]

has anyone done an independent dyno run with the throttle body?

[Canyon707]

Originally Posted by evomind

has anyone done an independent dyno run with the throttle body?

I did a few dyno runs with the new TB but, as Gary noted before these can be very different from run to run. I didn't gain but 1 hp and lost 13lb of torque on the dyno but, again I an not sure if that matters. I get really confused with the whole dyno thing..... If you can't get it dyno tuned by one of the pros its seems really not worth doing.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Canyon707

I did a few dyno runs with the new TB but, as Gary noted before these can be very different from run to run. I didn't gain but 1 hp and lost 13lb of torque on the dyno but, again I an not sure if that matters. I get really confused with the whole dyno thing..... If you can't get it dyno tuned by one of the pros its seems really not worth doing.

yes, i saw your other thread.
i bought this when it first came out and just had my buddy install it. i havent driven it yet.
but losing 13lbs of torque??
if thats indicative of the part, ill just take it off and **** can it.
isnt your car a paxton? if so, i would still think if the TB is doing its job u shouldnt lose 13lbs of torque...
sheesh...to gain that 13lbs of torque back naturally aspirated will cost thousands...
nice.

[Nader]

I didnt notice loss or torque. In fact you will notice a nice increase in throttle response. The change in torque could simply be variation between dyno runs.

[Canyon707]

Originally Posted by Nader

I didnt notice loss or torque. In fact you will notice a nice increase in throttle response. The change in torque could simply be variation between dyno runs.

I agree with you on this and I thought I said that the dyno runs can't tell you all as it has so many vairables. Gary had mentioned this in an earlier post and it made perfect sense. And the on board computer has adaptive issues as well. I am not unhappy with the single blade TB. I just dynoed less with it on. I only dynoed it once. It surely would be different if I did it again. I gave up on the dyno thing unless I get it dyno tuned. since I really don't race the car I begin to think that a lot of this Viper bolt on stuff is just not necessay. I like my corsa, B and M shifter, Ps2 tirew and my gears. I have to realize that the quest for speed is probably in most guys but, more and more it harldy seems worth it. I just like the car.( especially after being stopped by CHP it kinda takes the wind from your sails.) Thanks and be safe...

[Gisler]

Hi there I installed this throttle body in my 2004 SRT and it works fine especially above 4500 rpms the engine is more willing, especially in hig altitudes, great part.

Originally Posted by X-Metal

Hello this is Gary from X-Metal Engineering. I just wanted to share with you our new throttle body for the Gen 3. I have worked on the development of this for over 2 years and now we have it perfected. we cnc it from military spec T-6 aluminum and we cnc the blade out of stainless steel, and everything is micro-polished for a mirror shine inside and out. when the machining operations are performed, the throttle body is completely fixtured and bolted down to replicate the way it will be attached to the intake manifold for a precise apeture bore and to maintain the center axis alignment for the throttle shaft.
We also incorporated 4 internal shaft bearings to hold tighter side to side tolerances and allow for a smoother throttle pull than stock.

We will have TB's for Gen2's in the very near future as well as the 2008 model.

I have also attached a dyno run of our TB installed on a bone stock 2004 mamba Viper. With nothing done to the car, it picked up 13hp and 10ftlbs to the rear tires!
Also, we back our throttle body with a MONEY BACK WARRANTY-IF OUR THROTTLE BODY DOENST MAKE MORE POWER FOR YOUR APPLICATION-WE WILL GIVE YOU YOUR MONEY BACK!!
We have tested this throttle body for over 2 years, and we have over 30 testimonials from very satisfied customers,
so that’s why we have a 100% money back Guarantee!!



Our new Billet TB retails for $590 and I look forward to helping you all in any way.
Thanks!
Gary
812-453-4862
812-477-1740

[viperbilliam]

I finally put my unit on and it worked out well. I broke one of the screws but got my brother-in-law who's an accomplished machinist to remove the screw without touching the threads. I finished the install with no issues and the throttle response is very good. I broke the screw because I didn't file it down enough - it was my first one. The install is quite easy if the directions are followed closely.