N/A Cam setup??

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

The reason you don't see faster times from some of these cars is that the power does not get put to the ground. Without clutch management and a little chassis/shock work the car will not run to its full potential.

Doesn't mean the dyno number is bogus, it just means the owner needs a crewchief.

I have found chassis dyno's to be good indicators of power, meaning that if one does well on a chassis dyno, it will normally run fast down the track, assuming the driving, clutch, and chassis are in order. A water brake engine dyno is a different story. I have seen many things pick up an engine on a Superflow type dyno but run slower at the track.

[1BADGTS]

Originally Posted by Greg Good Cylinder Heads

The reason you don't see faster times from some of these cars is that the power does not get put to the ground. Without clutch management and a little chassis/shock work the car will not run to its full potential.

Doesn't mean the dyno number is bogus, it just means the owner needs a crewchief.

I have found chassis dyno's to be good indicators of power, meaning that if one does well on a chassis dyno, it will normally run fast down the track, assuming the driving, clutch, and chassis are in order. A water brake engine dyno is a different story. I have seen many things pick up an engine on a Superflow type dyno but run slower at the track.

Joes S car had the EXACT suspension as mine=BONE STOCK on stock tires same day ,same track ,same driver .There was NO CHASIS WORK SHOCK WORK ECT both cars were bone stock.

[1BADGTS]

Another year at the NE Zone Finals drag racing competition a guy showed up from Texas TNT STROKER KING SNAKE Dyno sheets 645 to the tire ect and the thing coulnt trap over 130.

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Ok, you win.

[1BADGTS]

Greg, i just like to see people get ALL the information so they know exactly what to expect BEFORE they spend their money on parts or services .Back in the 90s i spent a lot of money foolishly (that lol i wish i had now )on mods that were a complete nightmare .I feel for the guy that sends his car out spends 20 plus grand on a blower ect (because someone on this board has one and they have no issues with it )only to find out that this application does not fit their intended use of the car .(How they find out is spending money to repair the issues created by the blower )I was lucky enough (through my relationship with the mag guys )to basically have unlimited private access to one of the best drag strips in the country to test alot of these things out.Last week for example i ran into a guy who wanted to run his Gen 2 over at Englishtown using slicks and skinnys (some forum members mentioned that he could pick up at least .5 second running them )These same forum members FORGOT to tell this guy about ALL the ramifications of the added traction the slicks create.

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Originally Posted by 1BADGTS

Greg, i just like to see people get ALL the information so they know exactly what to expect....

Me too. That's why I said something about the oiling. The lifters I use for the solid cars are the stock lifters with the check valve removed and a tool steel insert installed. It is the same lifter body, the same pushrod cup, and the same piston, and the same pushrodoiling rate as stock, because it IS a stock lifter. There are a couple of good points about a small solid cam. One is since the seat timing is shorter by about 15 degrees versus the same @ .050" hydraulic, they have better street manners. I can also run a little more spring pressure with them and stay out of valve float, which saved wear and tear on the entire valve train.

I have never had anyone regret going with a solid, but I AM careful who I recommend them to. Not being a tuner, the guys I mostly deal with are do-it-yourself car owners and are pretty handy when it comes to engine stuff.

[RapidRonnie]

So now they are giving the crank even more oil on the Gen IVs with their new bearing design... I didn't know that the mains were in any danger of starvation on the Gen IIIs..

Ronnie

[1BADGTS]

Ron ,you have a PM.

[1BADGTS]

Originally Posted by Greg Good Cylinder Heads

Me too. That's why I said something about the oiling. The lifters I use for the solid cars are the stock lifters with the check valve removed and a tool steel insert installed. It is the same lifter body, the same pushrod cup, and the same piston, and the same pushrodoiling rate as stock, because it IS a stock lifter. There are a couple of good points about a small solid cam. One is since the seat timing is shorter by about 15 degrees versus the same @ .050" hydraulic, they have better street manners. I can also run a little more spring pressure with them and stay out of valve float, which saved wear and tear on the entire valve train.

I have never had anyone regret going with a solid, but I AM careful who I recommend them to. Not being a tuner, the guys I mostly deal with are do-it-yourself car owners and are pretty handy when it comes to engine stuff.

Greg,you have not seen ANY EXCESSIVE WEAR PATTERNS on the cams ect added spring pressure running the solids.When i was looking into running a solid in 99 Dave Crower himself WARNED me the engine would have to be rebuilt much more often (granted the cam i was lookinh at was slightly larger ect )

[RapidRonnie]

Originally Posted by Greg Good Cylinder Heads

Me too. That's why I said something about the oiling. The lifters I use for the solid cars are the stock lifters with the check valve removed and a tool steel insert installed. It is the same lifter body, the same pushrod cup, and the same piston, and the same pushrodoiling rate as stock, because it IS a stock lifter. There are a couple of good points about a small solid cam. One is since the seat timing is shorter by about 15 degrees versus the same @ .050" hydraulic, they have better street manners. I can also run a little more spring pressure with them and stay out of valve float, which saved wear and tear on the entire valve train.

I have never had anyone regret going with a solid, but I AM careful who I recommend them to. Not being a tuner, the guys I mostly deal with are do-it-yourself car owners and are pretty handy when it comes to engine stuff.

Solids??....hmmmm. The idea of the high bleed-down o.e.m. hydraulic lifters IS to make the cam appear smaller (and of course to pass emissions) and give the engine mild street manners. So, how big are the hydraulic cams being used that need to be changed to solids to give them "better street manners"? Granted the clearance ramp is considerably different solid-to-hydraulic but on a more radical solid cam, that 15 degree advantage you talk about is going to NEED high(er) spring pressures to KEEP IT FROM VALVE FLOAT..

To each his own, but I still prefer the newer technologies...

Ronnie

[1BADGTS]

Originally Posted by RapidRonnie

Solids??....hmmmm. The idea of the high bleed-down o.e.m. hydraulic lifters IS to make the cam appear smaller (and of course to pass emissions) and give the engine mild street manners. So, how big are the hydraulic cams being used that need to be changed to solids to give them "better street manners"? Granted the clearance ramp is considerably different solid-to-hydraulic but on a more radical solid cam, that 15 degree advantage you talk about is going to NEED high(er) spring pressures to KEEP IT FROM VALVE FLOAT..

To each his own, but I still prefer the newer technologies...

Ronnie

Exactly Ronnie ,i ran ran the CROWER STATE 2 (575 lift ,234 at 50 )and the cam was about as large as one could go and stll maintain SOME SORT OF STREETABILITY .When i went larger (600 lift 243 or so duration )the car made slightly more PEAK power (dyno racers out there )BUT was no faster on the strip and made the car a PIG to drive .I realize the solids lifters dont bleed down resulting in more PEAK POWER but where is the EVIDENCE (time slips)that peak power equates to better numbers at the track. LOL i hear solid cam ,solid cam but once again if you want to win DYNO RACES i guess they are great the ACTUAL DRAG RACE RESULTS tell differently as the fastest NA PUMP GAS TIMES EVER RECORDED are by those running HYD cams.My origional QUESTION still stands if i can run near 132 mph trap speeds on a streetable pump gas stock tired,stock suspension GTS why would i want to *ick with a solid cam .SHOW ME AN ACTUAL TIME SLIP AND I MAY CHANGE MY MIND.

[plumcrazy]

I personally have never seen a slip from street racing. Not once....

[1BADGTS]

Originally Posted by RapidRonnie

Solids??....hmmmm. The idea of the high bleed-down o.e.m. hydraulic lifters IS to make the cam appear smaller (and of course to pass emissions) and give the engine mild street manners. So, how big are the hydraulic cams being used that need to be changed to solids to give them "better street manners"? Granted the clearance ramp is considerably different solid-to-hydraulic but on a more radical solid cam, that 15 degree advantage you talk about is going to NEED high(er) spring pressures to KEEP IT FROM VALVE FLOAT..

To each his own, but I still prefer the newer technologies...

Ronnie

Ps and going BACK to what Nick and Dave Crower told me you want to run today LESS spring pressure (free up power ,make it easyier on the valvetrain )not more.

[1BADGTS]

Originally Posted by plumcrazy

I personally have never seen a slip from street racing. Not once....

By slip i mean DRAG STRIP TIME SLIP.Where is the evidence that switching to a solid makes a car faster down the drag strip =there isnt any ,quite the opposite as the records are ALL help by hyd cammed cars.

[plumcrazy]

street racing would do the same thing if not more. it does take the driver out of the equation.

60-160 is even more about rwhp

[1BADGTS]

Originally Posted by plumcrazy

street racing would do the same thing if not more. it does take the driver out of the equation.

60-160 is even more about rwhp

Even IF what your saying is true it does not qualify as a finite measuring tool for performance as the standard way to measure ANY cars performance is quarter mile racing and there the statistics speak for themselves .What good is a dyno mumber and the aggreviation associated with a solid cam IF the car its in is SLOWER than a HYD cam cammed CAR DOWN THE STRIP. No one cars what the dyno says ,no one cares IF the car is faster 60-160.

[1BADGTS]

lol This whole thing is starting to sound like a tuner sold a customer the bill of goods on running a solid cam and that particular customer now wants to know WHY cars running HYD cams are turning better times than him.

[plumcrazy]

but wouldn't taking out the driver be even more finite in finding which car has more power ?

60-160 is a lot less about driver than on a 1/4 mile track....

[1BADGTS]

Originally Posted by plumcrazy

but wouldn't taking out the driver be even more finite in finding which car has more power ?

60-160 is a lot less about driver than on a 1/4 mile track....

PLUM your trap speed at the end of the quarter measures your power (ET is driver ,traction ).I trapped around 132 that is a direct ULTIMATE measuring tool of the overall power my car made (its not like a dyno number as there is NO BS IN A TRAP SPEED )iF THOSE solid cammed CARS WERE SO GREAT AT A DRAG APPLICATION one inturn should see trap speeds at 135 easily with them =no so .Peak power dyno numbers(SOLID CAM) do not always mean the car will be faster in a drag application.

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Originally Posted by 1BADGTS

Greg,you have not seen ANY EXCESSIVE WEAR PATTERNS on the cams ect added spring pressure running the solids.When i was looking into running a solid in 99 Dave Crower himself WARNED me the engine would have to be rebuilt much more often (granted the cam i was lookinh at was slightly larger ect )

There are many different solid lifter lobe profiles on the market. Some are very gentle. Those are the ones I use.

There are guys running hydraulic roller profiles that are more aggressive than the solid lobes I run, and I've seen the broken parts.

[1BADGTS]

I will give you another example the day i had Dan Blacks DLM car tested Evan ran my NA car as well .Same day ,same ,track ,same driver (ET ASIDE )Dan car trapped over 12 MPH faster than mine .That 12 MPH told me he was making at least 120 more horsepower to the tire than i was I DID NOT NEED a dyno as the trap speed is the ultimate indicator

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Originally Posted by RapidRonnie

Solids??....hmmmm. The idea of the high bleed-down o.e.m. hydraulic lifters IS to make the cam appear smaller (and of course to pass emissions) and give the engine mild street manners. So, how big are the hydraulic cams being used that need to be changed to solids to give them "better street manners"? Granted the clearance ramp is considerably different solid-to-hydraulic but on a more radical solid cam, that 15 degree advantage you talk about is going to NEED high(er) spring pressures to KEEP IT FROM VALVE FLOAT..

To each his own, but I still prefer the newer technologies...

Ronnie

Ronnie, a hydraulic roller lifter that is bled down cannot follow the lobe correctly. All hydraulic roller lobes are designed to have zero lash. When the lifter bleeds down on the opening side of the ramp there *can be* clearance on the closing side (depending on how much preload the lifter has) and the lifter can/will skip the closing side of the lobe completely, especially the last portion of the lobe that sets the valve down against the seat gently.

The *new technology* you are talking of is down on power. Why do you think we always gain power when we replace a set of creampuff lifters with a set that is like the 96-99 cars?

I'll be glad to help you understand this but please hear me out.

One of the reasons a solid is better is you can run *slightly* more pressure, and since there is no bleed down to deal with the lifter follows the closing side of the lobe better and the valve motion is *as designed* by the cam grinder.

Hydraulic lifters are like miniature shock absorbers. They all bleed down. The less, the better. It makes more power and is easier on parts.

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Originally Posted by 1BADGTS

I will give you another example the day i had Dan Blacks DLM car tested Evan ran my NA car as well .Same day ,same ,track ,same driver (ET ASIDE )Dan car trapped over 12 MPH faster than mine .That 12 MPH told me he was making at least 120 more horsepower to the tire than i was I DID NOT NEED a dyno as the trap speed is the ultimate indicator

What exactly are you saying? I don't know how much power Dan Black's car is supposed to make. Is it a Paxton car? Built engine with ported heads?

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Originally Posted by 1BADGTS

lol This whole thing is starting to sound like a tuner sold a customer the bill of goods on running a solid cam and that particular customer now wants to know WHY cars running HYD cams are turning better times than him.

Completely false assumption on your part. Do you want to talk, or do you want to go on *ignore*?

[plumcrazy]

the one time i ran at etown.

my car went 117.xx and next run it went 120. same driver, same night, within 1 hour. so its not an exact science like you are saying. (nothing really is)

forgot to mention the 3rd run i turned hard left on the 1-2 shift...LOL mph was 91 on that run iirc

[1BADGTS]

Originally Posted by plumcrazy

the one time i ran at etown.

my car went 117.xx and next run it went 120. same driver, same night, within 1 hour. so its not an exact science like you are saying. (nothing really is)

forgot to mention the 3rd run i turned hard left on the 1-2 shift...LOL mph was 91 on that run iirc

Plum when we used to test we would make 50 runs per day and almost EVERY one of them was at least 129.5 up to a peak of 132 .I know a solid will make more peak power SO WHAT it does not matter if that peak power does not translate into a better time at the track .Its like the operation was a success but the patient died.Show me a time slip (ANY TIME SLIP )on stock tires and pump gas (non stroker like mine was )was a better trap speed than i ran and you will convince me.

[1BADGTS]

Hey iwill even you one further with you guys provide me with a SOLID CAMMED PUMP GAS Viper and i will get it tested in the EXACT SAME MANNER in which my old HYD cammed car was run(BASICALLY the hell will be beat out of it for an afternoon =THATS EVAN ) .Evan will do the test and report the results .

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Won't happen. Everyone knows who you are and is scared.

[1BADGTS]

I offered i mean you guys have no time slips at all to support your case so i figured the best way to EXPOSE everything is get the car tested =everything right out in the open .If what your saying truely translates to a faster car at the strip WHY NOT.They test at NJ and Florida.

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

LOL!!!