Get more boost from your Roe Blower!

[2MANYTOYS]

LOL, bite me Brian. From what I have seen/heard the build was not recommended.

Finish his work means, get the car back to Larry so he can deal with the issues with the car in his possesion. Its his job. Understand that.

Evidently he thought he was finished with his work. Shouldn't he pay for the shipping??? It's a lot of aggravation and money sending a car back and forth.

[Simms]

I agree shipping is aggravating. I don't think he felt he was finished because he said he would come back up and retune the car after the miles were put on. Its not my business and the details of everything can be worked out between Larry and Kenny.

Here is my point real simple. Many people know Larry and know he takes a lot of pride in his work. Everyone also knows that Larry would not deliver the car if he felt it had major issues. The car was delivered knowing a few small things needed to be worked out after some miles. During these miles, other issues came up. Larry never said he would not address them, and Kenny even stated that Larry was doing as much as he could 1000 miles away. So here we are. Larry has not even had the chance to properly address the issues the car is currently having (obviously mailing cards back and forth is not the way to do it). I don't even know why we are hearing about all of this when he hasn't had the chance to look at the car. I like Kenny and think he is a good guy, but I don't know why he is portraying Larry in a bad way when he hasn't had the opportunity to rectify the situation.

[Simms]

Sorry double post.

[ViperRichRT10]

What does all this have to do with the David Weaver pulley?

[JohnnyBravo]

Kenny,

I really hope you get this whole thing sorted out, and it doesn't end up costing you any more than it already has. I'm sure between all the people you've got pulling for you that it will eventually get squared away.

Larry,

I'm not sure why you keep calling me Joe, but that's not my name. Might make a mental note of that for the future. Thanks.

Larry and I are getting this sorted out. It will be costing more me money - I'm going to go with the AEM system and have Larry tune it. I chose Larry over many other tuners at the start of the project and he has been trying to make this project work, and I'll continue with Larry. I want to be reporting soon that Sir Larry has achieved building and tuning an ultra reliable daily driver, that doesn't throw codes, and has at least the high 700's power (or at least close to it). The daily driver reliability is my biggest concern and pretty much everybody has told me AEM is the way to go.

BTW - Larry used the David Weaver Crank Pulley on my Viper.

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Sorry you're having to spend more money Kenny, but hey, you can't take it with you when you die anyway!

[Marc Lublin]

Ok, maybe I missed something. What was actually done to the car that it need this 500 mile break in? I assume pistons and or rings? Why would this affect it's daily driveability? I know a tiny bit about motors and this seems a little confusing. Kenny, I agree if you give a car to a TUNER and pay all that money, it should be tuned right as promised. I know there are always 3 sides to every story, but Larry hasn't added much to another side, so I have to believe Kenny is honest in the course of events. Kenny, I do think you are crazy installing the AEM, unless Larry is giving it to you for free, because the current setup he sold you doesn't work. If not, I sure hope shipping and any other charges are non existent. Do you have a guarantee the car will run as promised after the AEM is installed? Anyway, getting back to the beginning of my post, I hope I'm wrong about what was installed. I'm hoping it's some magic newly discovered stuff that was installed, that actually takes 500 miles for it to run right.

[plumcrazy]

wasnt the AEM gonna cost you $4K...thats insane

[Joseph Dell]

And it isn't like this combo hasn't been tried at least once before. I recall hearing about trying to tune this w/ a VEC2 and it went over not-so-well. the customer ended up changing tuners when they had the AEM installed and that took care of the problem.

was it the AEM, or the change? dunno...

Relating to break-in miles, i've done some independent tests... it doesn't take that long to break in a motor. try like 1 heat cycle. or less. suffice to say, the rings seat pretty fast.

but i'm just an ameteur, so don't mind me...

JD

[2MANYTOYS]

Kenny,

I really hope you get this whole thing sorted out, and it doesn't end up costing you any more than it already has. I'm sure between all the people you've got pulling for you that it will eventually get squared away.

Larry,

I'm not sure why you keep calling me Joe, but that's not my name. Might make a mental note of that for the future. Thanks.

Johnny uh Joe uh Jack uh what is your name???

J/K Mark it was nice talking with you today. I hope your build turns out great.

[2MANYTOYS]

Ok, maybe I missed something. What was actually done to the car that it need this 500 mile break in? I assume pistons and or rings? Why would this affect it's daily driveability? I know a tiny bit about motors and this seems a little confusing. Kenny, I agree if you give a car to a TUNER and pay all that money, it should be tuned right as promised. I know there are always 3 sides to every story, but Larry hasn't added much to another side, so I have to believe Kenny is honest in the course of events. Kenny, I do think you are crazy installing the AEM, unless Larry is giving it to you for free, because the current setup he sold you doesn't work. If not, I sure hope shipping and any other charges are non existent. Do you have a guarantee the car will run as promised after the AEM is installed? Anyway, getting back to the beginning of my post, I hope I'm wrong about what was installed. I'm hoping it's some magic newly discovered stuff that was installed, that actually takes 500 miles for it to run right.

I agree!! Good post.


Plum that was the top secret price

[Simms]

Ok, maybe I missed something. What was actually done to the car that it need this 500 mile break in? I assume pistons and or rings? Why would this affect it's daily driveability? I know a tiny bit about motors and this seems a little confusing.

The drivability has to due with the Stryker heads, cam, Roe blower, VEC 2 combo. Nothing to do with the engine build.

[Joseph Dell]

sounds like the problem is in the tuning. there is another person who had the EXACT same issue and NEVER got it working w/ a VEC2. They changed to a different tuner, went AEM, and the car kicks butt!

coincidence? or not???

Ok, maybe I missed something. What was actually done to the car that it need this 500 mile break in? I assume pistons and or rings? Why would this affect it's daily driveability? I know a tiny bit about motors and this seems a little confusing.

New forged pistons, new bearings, Proprietary Macedo Cam, Jeff Morys Street Striker heads, port match Roe intake manifold, new fuel system, David Weaver Crank Pulley, 10 pound Roe pulley, new stock clutch, original flywheel reinstalled, a lot of etc., crankcase blowoff electric pump, new older model PCM, a lot more etc., custom roll bar/cage, extra Roe water/methanol tank, fire extinguisher, 6 point seat belts, & more etc.

500 mile break in is for piston rings and clutch, I understand.

Daily driver drivability severely compromised by violent surging a low constant RPM, but greatly improved by addition of grounding wires to TPS and PCM, but still very much present. Also, high idle hang up around 2,000 RPM for over 2 minutes in neutral and longer hang up in gear (think cruise control). Also hard starting and often gets caught in a loop where the engine must be shut off before it will run with a load on it (driving on a street). Most people I've talked to think it's a too agressive cam profile, a few think it's the Striker heads, and some think it's a combination, and a few think I have a vacuum leak.

Kenny, I agree if you give a car to a TUNER and pay all that money, it should be tuned right as promised. I know there are always 3 sides to every story, but Larry hasn't added much to another side, so I have to believe Kenny is honest in the course of events.

Larry told me it ran pretty close to perfect in Florida except the intermittant loop problem when starting a cold engine. He was very surprised it ran as poorly as it did ince the temperature got above 85 degrees. The hotter the air temperature, the worse it ran. Larry was pretty sure it's because Ohio at 975 feet is so much above sea level compared to Florida. He also thought there would be much higher power numbers once the 500 miles was completed and he was getting a knock sensor that he was going to bring with him when he came back to Ohio in a few weeks after that. Unfortunately, he had a family matter come up and wasn't able to return to Ohio to retune my car and another Viper at the same trip. I sent Larry reports on how my car was driving on lightly traveled country roads along with temperatures and humidity so he could reprogram the VEC2 cards. He was only able to retune my car using the VEC2 cards once and it did run better out on country roads, but the surging, high idle hang up, hard starting became the main issue. Larry has emailed the programs to Superdavz, another Viper owner near me and I should get the new VEC2 cards tomorrow. I don't know if Larry has improved the tune on them or not at this point.

Larry is trying to get it tuned right...it's just taking a whole lot longer than expected.

Kenny, I do think you are crazy installing the AEM, unless Larry is giving it to you for free, because the current setup he sold you doesn't work. If not, I sure hope shipping and any other charges are non existent. Do you have a guarantee the car will run as promised after the AEM is installed? Anyway, getting back to the beginning of my post, I hope I'm wrong about what was installed. I'm hoping it's some magic newly discovered stuff that was installed, that actually takes 500 miles for it to run right.

A lot of people think I'm crazy, and that was before I even knew what an AEM was. No, Larry isn't giving me the AEM for free and it was not in any of the original estimates, but he is very concerned about getting my car to run right. There are installation and tuning charges also.

I've asked Larry about a guarantee on the car running right once the AEM is installed and tuned, but he hasn't answered me yet, and I'll ask him again.

Other than the two fuses blowing on the first two runs on a track, I'd say the car has a lot more power than I had before, and Larry is the expert on the engine, so if he says he can get more power out of it once 500 miles are put on it I don't doubt him.

The drivability has to due with the Stryker heads, cam, Roe blower, VEC 2 combo. Nothing to do with the engine build.

The engine build and the rest of the work Larry did on my car appears to be first class all the way.

The drivability is a tuning issue.

It's the only issue standing between me enjoying the car I paid so much for and being very dissatisfied.

[Marc Lublin]

Kenny, good luck! Sounds like a whole lot of [******] to me, but what do I know. I do agree with one thing though, after the rings finish seating you might get a couple of more hp out of it, but not much. Driveabliity will not change a bit and a stock clutch should be like butter from the start.
Not that I'm saying the engine build was bad, because you probably do just have a tuning issue, but how does the build appear to be first class? Have you opened the motor up and looked inside? You've checked tolerances? Again, I'm not saying Larry didn't build it perfect, but you should say you trust Larry, not that it appears to be first class, because you just can't tell. I'm not trying to flame you in any way, just stating the facts. My advice is do not go with the AEM, but give it back to Larry and let him make it run right. If that means installing heads and cam that work at his expense, than so be it, unless he told you up front that the combo might not work perfectly. I'm sure he would agree to stand by his work and go for that solution. I would just be upset about missing the remaining weeks of summer. I assume Larry did know where the car was coming from prior to starting the work, so any tuning issues at your altitude should have been expected.
Anyway, I do wish you good luck. You deserve to have the car running like a top and it sounds like you are being MORE than fair. I would just keep you cash in your wallet at this point.

[2MANYTOYS]

Kenny, good luck! Sounds like a whole lot of [******] to me, but what do I know. I do agree with one thing though, after the rings finish seating you might get a couple of more hp out of it, but not much. Driveabliity will not change a bit and a stock clutch should be like butter from the start.
Not that I'm saying the engine build was bad, because you probably do just have a tuning issue, but how does the build appear to be first class? Have you opened the motor up and looked inside? You've checked tolerances? Again, I'm not saying Larry didn't build it perfect, but you should say you trust Larry, not that it appears to be first class, because you just can't tell. I'm not trying to flame you in any way, just stating the facts. My advice is do not go with the AEM, but give it back to Larry and let him make it run right. If that means installing heads and cam that work at his expense, than so be it, unless he told you up front that the combo might not work perfectly. I'm sure he would agree to stand by his work and go for that solution. I would just be upset about missing the remaining weeks of summer. I assume Larry did know where the car was coming from prior to starting the work, so any tuning issues at your altitude should have been expected.
Anyway, I do wish you good luck. You deserve to have the car running like a top and it sounds like you are being MORE than fair. I would just keep you cash in your wallet at this point.

Ditto!!!!

[BlueGTS]

I would vote to not throw any more money at the car; I think you have spent more than enough as it is. Tuning is what you need and if Larry does not feel comfortable doing it you should go with Joe. I am sure Joe can tune it for a few hundred bucks versus $4k+ for the AEM. Personally I would go with the lower cost option first.

[V10SpeedLuvr]

I would vote to not throw any more money at the car; I think you have spent more than enough as it is. Tuning is what you need and if Larry does not feel comfortable doing it you should go with Joe. I am sure Joe can tune it for a few hundred bucks versus $4k+ for the AEM. Personally I would go with the lower cost option first.

I agree and if Larry can't program it, I think he should foot the bill for Joe to do it

I agree and if Larry can't program it, I think he should foot the bill for Joe to do it

I agree, but let's give Larry a chance first - I think he will step up to the plate and hit a home run.

I'm definately not too happy over spending even more money, but Larry is cutting me a break in the pricing.

[Simms]

And it isn't like this combo hasn't been tried at least once before. I recall hearing about trying to tune this w/ a VEC2 and it went over not-so-well. the customer ended up changing tuners when they had the AEM installed and that took care of the problem.

Very interesting. So its quite possible the VEC2 may not be the best engine management system for this combo after all. I think the VEC2 is good, but it does have limitations.

[Joseph Dell]

This is quite true!!! The VEC2 is a piggy-back for Fuel and Timing and that's it!!! It can't adjust your idle, or deal with complex conditions.

Thing of it this way:

Vec2 = 2D
AEM = 3D

A whole new dimension...

JD

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Most people I've talked to think it's a too agressive cam profile, a few think it's the Striker heads, and some think it's a combination, and a few think I have a vacuum leak.

Kenny, scratch the heads off your list. It's not that.

Kenny, scratch the heads off your list. It's not that.

I have - that leaves the cam or a vacuum leak or the tune or a combination.

I also have had a lot of contact from former customers of Sir Larry regarding my situation...

[plumcrazy]

I also have had a lot of contact from former customers of Sir Larry regarding my situation...

and what did they say ???

and what did they say ???

After talking to them I don't feel very comfortable about having my Viper being tuned down in Florida, since the reason why it wasn't tuned right when it was delivered to me as being completed was the altitude difference between Florida and Ohio and other reasons I'm not going into here.

[1TONY1]

There is 650' difference in the "elevation" between you and Orlando. 650' is nothing .... the weather can change that much day to day. You may get that much swing in Ohio from late night to midday. In fact, since Ohio is normally cooler then Orlando the corrected elevation could be even closer. More variables then temp, so that's a rough statement.

Current corrected elevation (density altitude) @ 11:10pm est.= 600' difference between the two locations.

Dayton Ohio, Cox Dayton international airport:
2100 feet density altitude
phone #: 937-454-7845

Orlando Florida, Orlando Executive Airport:
1500' density altitude
phone #: 407-658-6753

Feel free to call those numbers anytime, they are automated. Density altitude is the corrected altitude taking in to account the weather conditions.

[plumcrazy]

roe tuned mine on his dyno in florida and NNJ is probably higher than ohio and i have had ZERO problems.

roe tuned mine on his dyno in florida and NNJ is probably higher than ohio and i have had ZERO problems.

Sir Larry tuned mine on his dyno in florida and NNJ is probably higher than ohio and i have had MAJOR problems and he said it was due to the altitude difference when he delivered my car as completed July 1st ("I didn't have any of your problems when I drove it in Florida.") - I don't think I'd feel right about having it tuned right in Florida and find out as I drive it home to Ohio find out it doesn't run right as I'm driving through the Smoky Mountains. I also would have to pay money for an airline ticket and miss work (I don't get paid for missed days as a substitute) to get my car when it is done - I've already paid $28,000 and haven't gotten what I was promised and to continue to pay money and lose money on what was supposed to have been a completed product is less than acceptable.

I have been told yesterday "I did no modifications to the cards because you have given me very little input as to how each card is acting or the car is reacting. I asked you to test the M2 tune card and I received no feedback.", several hours later a friend received a second eMail with the another set of VEC2 programs stating the new VEC2 programs were based on my feedback on the VEC2 cards that Sir Larry had retuned originally. I also had given Sir Larry feedback on the M2 tune card the Saturday my car blew two fuses in a row and stopped running the first two times I ran it on the track.