Heffner Twin Turbo vs Supercharger

[Real Hummer]

I purchased my 2001 RT10 2 years ago. Shortly after, I installed a Roe Super-charger and it was an excellant diy kit for the money. Although I was looking for more, I had Jason Heffner install his supercharger combo, and once again made exceptionally good power. I had just picked up my car from Jason Heffner after upgrading to his 510 twin turbo package, and I wish I had just taken this route from the start. Anyone considering a supercharger or turbos should definately take a serious look at the turbos first. I wasted a lot of money to finally get what I was looking for. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. My supercharger car was extremely loud; you had to yell at somebody on the passenger seat to hold a conversation, and besides all the dirty looks people gave you when passing them. The power curve with the turbos is way more useable for street use and the car is just a pleasure to drive now. I just drove 16 hours, 1200 miles (from Sarasote FL back to NJ). The fuel mileage greatly improved (although not a big concern). I spoke with a few people on the phone on the way home, and they couldn't even tell I was in the car. The car drives just like it did when it was stock with the only difference being when you push the "go" pedal, it GOES. The only complaint I have about Heffner's Performance is Jason wasn't willing to pay the speeding tickets I got on the way home. I was stopped once in Florida and twice in Georgia befor I had to control myself. luckily I wasnt caught when I was going 190mph but I had to see what it had.
Thanks
Bob Hummer

[Supercharged Vipermad]

That is all well and good.....but not everyone has that kind of $$$$. It is good advice, in general, for sure. I an sure MANY would love to have TT.....but sometimes its all about the benjamins.

Do you plan to post the details of your new setup?

[Joseph Dell]

Congrats on the car!

I don't want to derail the conversation too much, but I gotta say, going right to 1000+rwhp is NOT a good idea in these cars. I've had mine for 6 years and I have a healthy respect for it. I learned to drive it stock. Then 560rwhp (SC), then 700rwhp, then 850rwhp, then 965rwhp and now somewhere over 1000rwhp (I hope. ask me in a week or two when i hit the dyno).

Point being that if you don't learn these cars, they will teach you a lesson... FAST. ROE SC is good practice. But I do NOT recommend that anyone jump into a TT... at least not a full boost one until they learn to drive.

JD

[Real Hummer]

JD, I had the 560 roe and the 865 Heffner supercharger and my opinion is the twin turbo is more forgiving to drive with the boost curve. Tony, I guess what I am saying is if you can hold out and save your money wait for the twin turbo. I thought Jason was nuts when he told me what a twin turbo car cost 1 year ago but I spent alot more geting there now.
Thanks

[Shelby3]

Turbo's are tits but I like loud. What numbers are you putting down on pump gas? Congrats

[Real Hummer]

Shelby. I liked the car loud at times but it got old. pump gas is 915rwhp and 918 rwtq. Jason tells me 1100 on race gas.
Bob Hummer

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Awesome numbers! I guess that is the reason I NEVER want to drive/ride in a TT car. Don't think I could stop myself from spending more $$$ than the CFO has alloted!! Drive SAFE!

[ab]

I love the way that DLM SC sounds...nothing like it. Some it's power and others it maybe sound. I think a system like DLM can get you both!

[Steve 00RT/10]

My supercharger car was extremely loud; you had to yell at somebody on the passenger seat to hold a conversation, and besides all the dirty looks people gave you when passing them.

I have never understood the intent, or purpose, of a quiet Viper.

I also agree that dollars of this magnitude are a major factor for most Viper owners. Saving for a twin turbo set up is, realistically, probably not in the cards for the majority of people owning these cars. Spending considerably less for a Roe type set up achieves at least a good portion of the 'feel good rush' that comes with more power. I would venture a guess that even those with a twin turbo, and making BIG power, eventually yearn for more. It's a never ending cycle. The old 'Too much HP is never enough' adage is a very valid premise. Adding more power equates to more BIG money.

Steve

[IEATVETS]

Another point besides the fact that TT's are big $$$ is if it is a street driven car and you have almost 1000 HP, where can you use all of that power? Seems kind of pointless to me to spend all of that money on a mod only to use it very rarely to it's fullest potential.

[Fishtail]

YOU could have saved the money the first time if you didn't build it too slow or too loud. I don't consider my car loud or slow by any means and I surely don't have any issues with the drivability with the supercharger. Thanks for the tip on turbo chargers and congrats on your hp numbers, but I'll keep my DLM SUPERCHARGER

-lou

[Joseph Dell]

Since hte pricing discussion was hit on: a ROE or Paxton can be had installed for 7.5k-10k. What are the about-to-come-to-market DIY TT setups going for? probably 10-11k methinks. So a TT may be expensive today, but I don't think that tuners charging 28-30k+ for a TT setup will be keeping that pricing. Not except for the upper end (stage 3 or stage 4 or stage CHAD) models which include heads, cam, etc...

As a point of reference (and NOT comparing apples to apples), last Zone Rendevous, RSI was kind enough to donate a TT setup to each region for auction. Each sold at auction for between 14k and 18k. Granted, I don't think RSI is making a penny on a 14k setup, but still...

More fodder for discussion.

JD

[Supercharged Vipermad]

You're right, JD....everything ALWAYS comes down in price, eventually. I swear that when Mark Cooper had one of the first SC packages, I figured there would NEVER be a day for me.

With regards to useable power on the street.....for ME, nailing the gas in 3rd and the tires breaking loose leaves me in giggles....so what I got is fine (I am EASILY amused). Now...the fact that the TT's can do that AND MORE....just makes me NOT want a ride!! LOL!!!

[Torquemonster]

Joe is right about DIY kits making TT more affordable and closer to SC pricing. However I do not see the delux packages coming down in price. Parts alone for a top quality TT setup could easily top $14k not including any engine work, or exhaust after the turbo, or engine management.

Factor in how many you can do in a year, recovering development costs and on-going R & D etc - I see tuners making a living not a fortune even with the $30k prices.

Power can be gotten relatively cheaply, but there will always be a market for high quality packages that cost the big dollars.

To build a TT Viper that could pass for close to factory quality standards would come close to $100k by the time you add up engine rework, trans upgrade, rear end upgrade, half shafts, clutch, wheels/tires, TT system, engine management, exhaust, guages etc.

Yes you could do things a lot cheaper but not at top quality level - that is about what it takes for the good stuff and can go a lot higher...

using stock engines or stock engines with a simple piston upgrade will never ever constitute a top quality engine upgrade... not even adding good rods and having the crank offset ground.

a quality upgrade for an engine designed to operate at TWICE the factory intented power level would require top quality parts for that power level AND bluepinting and balancing. The parts most can agree on the principle (tho some argue if the factory parts are not breaking under 5000 miles why change?) - it is the blueprint standards and machining standards that are lacking all too often

I'd love to supply a blueprint list to some TT customers to take to their favourite tuners and then be a fly on the wall....

very few street Viper owners have a genuine blueprinted engine - whether turbo'd, sc'd or naturally aspirated. The road race boys are far more likely to understand the advantages of that and they know where they can get it done.

I have receieved a lot of stick for my opinions but I stand firm because I know that few get what they pay for and the standard of work is not even as high as what many good old fashioned Chevy boys expect when they start approaching 1.3hp per cube or more.

Customers do not know any better so as long as the car goes like snot and does not break within 5000 miles - they're happy... it is THIS I'd call the Viper tax - the gap between the quality level people THINK they get and what they actually get... saved by the fact the V10 is so well designed - it forgives the abuse and keeps on running.

When someone like Mitech Engines or LPE (who do things properly) goes out and breaks records - people think it is secret knowledge that does it.... but for the most part it is just that people like LPE do blueprint to a high standard. They do NOT simply bolt on good parts and then charge like it was a work of art to do it. The actual hard parts used are not that different from what many use.

They charge because they DID spend the time to test and measure, re-measure and machine to the finest tolerances, then assemble with great care. That time is repaid in 20,000 miles or 50,000 miles when other cars that spent less have long fallen off or are onto their 2nd or 3rd refresh...

Because of this - the golden rule still applies - but sometimes paying up front saves in the long run.

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I started to agree with you.....right up to the point where you implied (maybe I inferred...but either way I think you mis-stated) that the current tuners and their packages are somehow short changing their customers. You either said that....or you just insulted every Viper owner who has had work done on their car.

the gap between the quality level people THINK they get and what they actually get...

Personally, I think others will read it the same way and whatever credibility you had will take the hit.

NOT trying to give you MORE stick.....but if the shoe fits...