Contemplated Roe Supercharger... (questions)

[jpa99acr]

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a full Belanger exhaust, and then realized that the cone shaped "pickle" in the headers may be an issue if I do the Roe that I am considering adding... the airflow restriction may not be a good thing? I have heard B&B headers were better if one has a ROE because of their larger size, and the fact that there isn't a "pickle"

Anyway... that is my question. I would probably do a 6 1/2 pulley so I don't have to do the water/meth (no room in trunk with custom stereo anyway).

Would it sound any different than the full Belanger setup I had on my last ACR? I liked the backfiring when you let off the gas, and the awesome idle rumble. Would that be any different? I didn't order the exhaust because of the issues when I do the ROE.

I'm sure Tony will come along soon...

I want my Roe to look like this setup...

[Simms]

I've heard/read the same info regarding the pickle being restrictive with a forced induction setup for a long time now (and I admit the argument does make sense to me and I installed 1 3/4" B&B headers for the same exact reason.)

HOWEVER, I have seen many Roe cars with Belanger headers put out great numbers! I believe they are both quality headers with positives and negatives, so who knows. You can always remove the pickle if you decide to run Belangers and feel they are holding you back.

This subject has been beat up quite a bit and there are many opinions out there.

[jpa99acr]

Thanks for the info. How is the sound quality? About the same? Also, you have some impressive numbers. What numbers could i reasonably expect with headers and 6.5 lb Roe? (everything else stock, no rockers etc.)

Originally Posted by Simms

I've heard/read the same info regarding the pickle being restrictive with a forced induction setup for a long time now (and I admit the argument does make sense to me and I installed 1 3/4" B&B headers for the same exact reason.)

HOWEVER, I have seen many Roe cars with Belanger headers put out great numbers! I believe they are both quality headers with positives and negatives, so who knows. You can always remove the pickle if you decide to run Belangers and feel they are holding you back.

This subject has been beat up quite a bit and there are many opinions out there.

stop....get the rockers.

[jpa99acr]

well i also intend to put a belanger catback, aside from that, headers and the ROE I didn't plan on anything else. Are roller rockers (like T&D) as expensive as heads? I admit I don't know that much about them.

[v10kingsnake]

The pickles in the belangers have been discussed many many times before. Try a search using "pickle".

[jpa99acr]

yeah I know they have, but I wasn't sure about the exhaust sound of the B&B versus the Belanger Headers (2nd part of my question). Thanks for the replies guys.

jpa,

I recommend that you re-prioritize. Your valves will flow much better with rockers and a Roe. A 6.5lb Roe will really respond to the rockers. Are you also running smooth tubes and high flow filters?

Now I could tell you that headers would be a waste of money, that they would give you a tiny increase in HP for big money and that they will more the double your noise (especially with the blower.) But that would really piss off alot of people.....end up with headers, if you need to...start with rockers

Are you going to run wide bands?

[jpa99acr]

thanks for the info. The ACR comes with smooth tubes and K&Ns, do I need anything above that? Sorry if I sound like a noob. I 'm learning more about these motors daily, even though I'm been a VCA member for 5 yrs. I'm using the search feature to answer many of my questions (before any of you start harping on that

Not at all, your asking all the right questions at the right time.

Look, everybody has an opinion and most are right...for them. That would include me.

My thoughts:

1. Most people don't realize how LOUD cat backs are.
2.Most people don't realize how MUCH LOUDER they are with headers. You really must want a L-O-U-D car with both. I am constantly reminded of the damage being done when we go out to lunch as a group and the header crowd sit there yelling at the waitress because they can't even hear their own voices. Seriously, headers are VERY LOUD. So, I caution you. Big Bucks...modest improvements. BIG NOISE....big hearing damage. At a bare minimum you MUST ride in a Viper with JUST the catback you are considering and then with BOTH the cat backs and the headers. What are you doing with your cats? Let me guess....

3. Rockers...not expensive, you do not need Jezels. A set of Harland Sharps will do you just fine. It was one of the VERY few modifications that I did on my stock Viper that I immediately felt on the first get up and go. I did them before I did a Roe and I did them at the advice of everybody. Blower? Rockers!. 'Nuff said. You will thank me, your engine will thank you.

Oh yea, your smooth tubes and the filters are great! Your done.

[ViperTony]

If you don't want the pickle...order the Belangers without it. Whether or not the pickle restricts flow in S.C. applications, go to the source and call Lou Belanger. In 20 minutes you'll know the history of the pickle and whether or not its going to impact performance in an S.C. application. Don't have 20 minutes to spare? Then call JonB at Partsrack and get the scoop in 7 minutes or less. There are other advantages to the Belangers besides the pickle, sound and cooler running headers for starters. Sound is simply incredible with a Roe and S.C. You want to hear a Roe with Belanger setup? Click Here. This is Steve00RT10's setup.

[RTTTTed]

When I bought my Belangers I called Sean Roe and he said putting on the headers with the pickles is the same as no headers for power. The pickles are just too restrictive for the supercharger, so I torched them out. No big deal.

I think the 'loud' part of the exhaust equation is the Cats. I don't have cats and it is loud.

Ted

[puma]

Originally Posted by RTTTTed

I think the 'loud' part of the exhaust equation is the Cats. I don't have cats and it is loud.

Ted

I don't think so because i was with stock headers and no cat and i thought the car was loud but then i installed headers and added small resonators (thought it would help reducing the noise of the headers) and it was really, really louder than before. So the headers really do change the sound. Since my car was not a daily driver, i kinda liked the exotic sound the car had for the little time i was using it. In neutral on a stop, a quick rev of the engine would roar and snap like no other car i ever heard before.

[anton28]

DAMN YANKEE vbmenu_register("postmenu_2474953", true); whats the part number on the hrland sharp rockers? How much were they?

[RobZilla]

I'm running B&B headers with a full 3" catback exhaust. It is LOUD. As Damn Yankee said, it will be extremely loud when you gas it. It rumbles deep and sounds teriffic at an idle. In 6th gear theres a noticeably droning sound which gets old fast. Picture having a nascar in your garage... that's the best I can tell ya... Im running a vec 1 and it purrrs.... just purrs loudly.

[ViperTony]

In Steve00RT/10's setup.. he has a full Belanger exhaust ( 4 muffler version ) minus cats. At the end of this clip (where you hear someone laughing) Steve is about 1/4 mile away and it sounds as if his Viper is right in front of you. That's loud! But a pleasant loud rumble as opposed to the drony (is that a word?) loud or tinny loud on some other systems. I don't think there's a more beautiful exhaust note than a full Belanger system (with or without cats). It all depends on your personal tastes. Do you like the UPS truck sound? Ricer Sound? Or pissed-off Raped Ape sound? Personally, I'm a raped ape kinda' guy myself.

[Steve 00RT/10]

Originally Posted by ViperTony

In Steve00RT/10's setup..he has a Roe and full Belanger exhaust ( 4 muffler version ) minus cats. At the end of this clip (where you hear someone laughing) Steve is about 1/4 mile away and it sounds as if his Viper is right in front of you. That's loud! But a pleasant loud rumble as opposed to the drony (is that a word?) loud or tinny loud on some other systems. I don't think there's a more beautiful exhaust note than a full Belanger system (with or without cats). It all depends on your personal tastes. Do you like the UPS truck sound? Ricer Sound? Or pissed-off Raped Ape sound? Personally, I'm a raped ape kinda' guy myself.

Thanks Tony. Actually that clip was made pre-blower in 2004, and done with a handheld PDA device. Sorry for the confusion. The car is louder now, probably because I'm pushing a bunch more air in and trying to push a bunch more out. I have HS roller rockers (which have worked just fine and never been touched in over 11,000 miles last summer)....and the pickle is in. I don't know about bigger pulleys and air restrictions due to the pickle, but I'd like to think our car is as fast as any other Roe 5 pounder with the same set up except for the headers. Hitting it in 4th gear at 95 MPH shows a snapshot of 2.1 seconds from 103-121 MPH (log run). 45-90 in 3rd gear is in the 3.6 second range on a cool day. I think that's pretty fast for a 5 pounder, although I would more than interested in comparing that to someone elses. Might make the argument for pickle or no pickle -- at least with a 5 pounder. I would guess a 6.5 pound pulley wouldn't make much difference on the exhaust flow. We're only talking about 20HP or so. I also have no idea how removing the pickle affects the 'Belanger' sound. I completely agree about adding roller rockers. SC like air. The more air in and out...the more power. Also I think RRs would theorectically keep the charge temp down a little as the SC is not creating as much heat when the blowered air has an easier passage in and out. This is probably a bigger deal for cast piston car like ours. Per the log runs, the roller rockers knocked roughly .3 seconds off my 45-90 runs in 3rd gear.

As for the sound with a Roe.......I alway spin in first gear when I get out to the highway from our house. It's tradition since 3/00. A friend of mine owns a car wash right where I do the deed. He loves it. When I put the blower on in 2006, he immediately asked what I had done to the car after hearing it go by a few times. He said it was a meaner, louder, deeper, better sound than before. .......Before being Belanger headers, no cats, 3" Belanger exhaust, and the 4 muffler set up ( Walker Dynomax Race Bullets). I think it's because of the more air moving in and out.

A few years ago, a friend of mine in his DLM level 3+ car came blowing by me. His exhaust actually hurt my ears as he passed. He was pushing tremendous amounts of air out. I guess our car has been known to do the same when blowing by people at take off speeds when they have their window down (which was intentionally down just to hear it come by). The DLM car has the same Belanger set up as me -- with pickles. He has run 10.3 at 141.6 MPH. His car made 842 RWHP/800RWTQ last summer up here. The pickle didn't seem to take too much away. As a testament to Doug Levin, I would add that this particular car only runs a few hundred miles a year and has never been touched since the install in the winter of 03. The dyno run was on pump gas with the car just out of winter storage. That car is a real BEAST!!

I might add we have been all over the country with this open Belanger set up. Over 70,000 miles of Belanger 'music' to date. Cruising in 6th gear is not a lot different than stock.

Steve

Anton, go to the Roe Racing web site...

[jpa99acr]

Thanks for the convo yesterday, Yankee.... lots of helpful info! Hopefully I will posting my new setup on here soon.

[treesnake]

I ran my car (with Roe S/C, T&D's, full 3 in. Corsa, no cats) on the dyno at PBJ with/without the Bellanger "pickle". No other change, just cut out the pickle (per Sean).......NO CHANGE......
Originally thought the pickle might be causing back pressure from the blower resulting in addditional crankcase pressure and blowing oil...Long story short, The "pickle" changes the sound only...according to the DYNO

I love the sound of my Bellanger headers. The only sound I love better is the unmistakable "whine" of my Roe at 5000+RPMs and looking in my rear view mirror at a Cobra....

You won't regret the S/C

Man is that the truth, the Roe Supercharged whine is one of the great sounds of American Motorsports. I wasn't aware that there would be one....was I ever pleased when the blower started to wind up.

[Steve 00RT/10]

I not sure which exhaust this is...kind of sounds like Belangers, but it's pretty darn good clip of a Roe blower coming at ya! Works for me!

Supercharged Viper - Video

Steve

[Red Snake]

I have Belangers, no cats and Corsa track exhaust. It is freakin LOUD. But I like it that way.
I don't know if the pickles are still in there or not, as the headers and the Roe were already on the car when I bought it.

My car made 625 rwhp with the 8 lb pulley before I put on the water meth. After the water meth it made 635/671. Limited at 635 due to maxing out the Boost-a-pump. Could make more power with an upgraded fuel pump.

[Madduc]

Here's a clip of B&B,no cats, and Random Tech exhaust
fun in mexico - Putfile.com

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Originally Posted by Steve 00RT/10

I not sure which exhaust this is...kind of sounds like Belangers, but it's pretty darn good clip of a Roe blower coming at ya! Works for me!

Supercharged Viper - Video

Steve

I too would like to know the exhaust setup of that car. It says tuned by Roe, maybe he can tell us. I have probably watched, well more listened to that video 50 times and LOVE it. That is the way a SC Viper should sound even if you have to wear ear plugs inside Is the owner of that car on this site??

[FE 065]

Most of the info about pickles vs no pickles seems to be comparing the Belangers (Tri Y headers) to 5 into 1 headers. Which is comparing apples to oranges.

While I do know first hand that there are surprises to be found when making small changes in the exhaust sytem, I tend to think the pickle itself isn't reponsible for much difference. It'd seem to be too far downstream to impact cylinder evacuation and/or filling enough to register a major difference on a dyno or at the track.

I don't recall anyone with Belanger headers posting before and after dyno results that pointed directly at the pickle removal alone as the reason for a HP gain. There may be reasons to prefer 5 into 1s over Tri Ys, but the pickle probably isn't one of them.

Byron Hines spent some time reading up on ballistics before adding a pickle-type device to the area of his headers where the primaries meet in the collector btw. That was some years ago...who knows, he may be doing something different now..?

[KenH]

Originally Posted by treesnake

I ran my car (with Roe S/C, T&D's, full 3 in. Corsa, no cats) on the dyno at PBJ with/without the Bellanger "pickle". No other change, just cut out the pickle (per Sean).......NO CHANGE......
Originally thought the pickle might be causing back pressure from the blower resulting in addditional crankcase pressure and blowing oil...Long story short, The "pickle" changes the sound only...according to the DYNO

Treesnake - Thanks, someone has finally posted a before and after pickle removal dyno result! I guess I can strike that one off my Christmas to-do list.

As for the video, I think that is MbnVipers car. If so, I think it had a full B&B exhaust. He still posts on the boards occasionally.

[treesnake]

We ran the car on the dyno with/with out the "exhaust pickle" about a week apart with similar weather temps etc. NO CHANGE

[GTS Bruce]

Headers,cat back,no cats is loud.Headers,highflows,cat back is almost too quiet in comparison.Either way High flow cats or no cats the side sills and car will be cooler. GTS Bruce

[dave6666]

Raped Ape sound???

I'm in love...

Really though, my Belangers are setting in the house now waiting for the holidays to pass and for me to get back to parts ordering.

Side exhaust and pissed off "ape raped" neighbors are my plan for '08.

And maybe those HS rockers. At under a grand, those are a no brainer.

"Mr Roe... I'm ready to SPEND!"