Strange engine heating problem (new)

[Bolt]

Water pump is back on. I pressed the impeller on another .043 inch. I'll post pictures tomorrow. There was quite a gap on the impellers close to the front housing. This would effective the operation of the pump. Especially at the low RPM's. I don't think this was the problem but it will help.

[dave6666]

Aren't these cars to some degree self purging of the air? Or in other words, driving the car will do the job? Did this all come about with a fresh coolant change? Or is the only coincidence the corn in your tank?

[Bolt]

Originally Posted by dave6666

Aren't these cars to some degree self purging of the air? Or in other words, driving the car will do the job? Did this all come about with a fresh coolant change? Or is the only coincidence the corn in your tank?

This all seamed to begin happening after I got fuel. It's all good. I'm giving my car a good going over. Hey it has 27,000 miles on it and I want it to be reliable. Maybe I'm to fussy. Plus I enjoy working on this thing just as good as driving it.

[Bolt]

Here is the latest:

Pulled off the water pump. Did not find anything wrong. I personaly felt the impeller was to far away from the housing which decreased the eficency of the pump so I pressed it on another .043 inch. Note picture. This shaft was flush from the factory.




I also pulled the plugs and did a compression check. As pics show all plugs look great. I am thinking of going one size cooler plug.






Here is my compression test results. Looks great.

1 = 150
2 = 150
3= 150
4 = 150
5 = 150
6 = 150
7 = 150
8 = 152
9 = 150
10 = 148

[Bolt]

Originally Posted by dave6666

Aren't these cars to some degree self purging of the air? Or in other words, driving the car will do the job? Did this all come about with a fresh coolant change? Or is the only coincidence the corn in your tank?

Dave,

My experience with my car is that the air will not move out of the system. Here is what I do. Located on the t-stat housing is a small 1/8 plug. The factory one is metal. Throw that one away. It bonds to the aluminum intake and when removed for the first time you will pull some threads. (Be careful) I went to my local hardware store and got a brass one and with my hacksaw put a slot in it. This is easier to work with now.
With my engine cold and my system empty I remove this plug on the t-stat housing.
Next I fill up my system thru the radiator holding tank till full.
Unfortunately the fluid will not come out this hole till the t-stat opens.
Next I run the engine a few seconds.
Fill the holding tank again. (do this a few times till the fluid come out the vent hole in the t-stat housing)
Now put the plug in but do not tighten it all the way.
Put the radiator cap on.
Start engine and run for 5 to 10 minutes. (Operating temp) Shut motor off.
Back off the vent hole plug and you will see the bubbling of air come out. Allow this to bubble till it turns into all fluid. tighten the plug. (DO NOT REMOVE THIS PLUG WHEN ENGINE IS HOT, YOU WILLLLL GET HURT)
Once all air is out and engine cooled down remove radiator cap and fill tank.
You might want to heat cycle the engine one more time and see if you can get anymore air out.

Dave, Keep your input coming. It is all good!

[dave6666]

Sounds like we have a similar method. I have the Roe vented upper hose, which BTW is far from a miracle. Does however make it easier than that pipe plug on the stat housing.

Anyway, what I have done several times:

Fill system with vent fitting open, using my funnel that fits the coolant bottle. Nothing ever comes out the vent hole during this process.

Close vent, and with fluid in the funnel covered with a towel, start car for 30 seconds to a minute. Fluid level in funnel will rise due to the air heating in the engine, and then fall again as the air cools. Check vent to see whassup there.

Allow to heat soak for 15 to 30 minutes.

Repeat process until stat opens. This takes 3 to 4 hours. I have the time. If you don't, then I would of course find an alternate method!

When stat is open fill system to as much as it will take, checking hose vent. Close system, ensuring fascia bottle has fluid and the hose between the 2 has no leaks. You can otherwise suck air as the system cools.

From there, with driving in between, I've maybe seen the level in the fascia bottle drop about 1/2" or so, as the final air works out of the system.

No cooling problems in Texas.

[Bolt]

My latest test run is that I may be running 5 degrees cooler. I'm back to thinking it's the gas.

Where can I get gasoline analyzed?

[dave6666]

Originally Posted by Bolt

Where can I get gasoline analyzed?

Mexican restaurant?



BBQ pit?



Sheep man, just Google it...

[ViperTony]

On the advice of Tator, I loosened one of the heater core hoses when I filled up and then burped. It seemed to have worked better in getting rid of the air than unscrewing the t-stat housing bleeder screw.

[Tom, F&L GoR]

It makes no sense to be the alcohol content of the fuel. When the doctor puts ethanol on your skin to clean it, doesn't it feel cold? The high latent heat of vaporization (the energy the ethanol pulls from it's surroundings in order to transform from a liquid to a vapor) is the reason - and the same happens in your engine. For the ethanol to evaporate, it pulls heat energy from the air it is mixing with and cools the incoming charge. It does not burn hotter, either.

Mix the gasoline you buy with 20% water. If the gasoline has zero alcohol, the gasoline and water will separate and you will see 20% water on the bottom of your jar. If it has 10% alcohol, you will see 30% water on the bottom because the alcohol will preferentially mix with water vs. gasoline. (I don't think I'm doing the fractions exactly right, but you get the point.) What else would you test the gasoline for?

Ethanol is about 1/3 oxygen, and if the amount of ethanol is 10% of the gallon, then you are starting out only 3.3% lean. The O2 sensors have to measure the exhaust and make up for this - if they aren't, you have a fuel supply problem but not a fuel problem. A cold start requires more than a 3% enrichment, so you have to have the supply capability. Is there a yellow check engine light?

ViperTony's Tator method works.

[johnk]

Originally Posted by Bolt

Reality check:
Engine temprature after 10 minutes of running. 220 degrees
top radiator hose 195 degrees
lower radiator hose 165 degrees

.

I think you have a bad temp sensor, a bad ground, or a bad temp gauge. Coolant exiting the motor is 195 yet the gauge reads 220.


.

[Bolt]

Originally Posted by johnk

I think you have a bad temp sensor, a bad ground, or a bad temp gauge. Coolant exiting the motor is 195 yet the gauge reads 220.


.

Sadly enough it may be true. I drained all the gas and replaced it with another brand and octain. No difference. Next is to replace the temp sensor.

[dave6666]

You could be right with the sensor, but polymers are typically bad thermal conductors.

It is possible that after only 10 minutes the water is indeed 220 whilst the outside of the hose is a lower temp.

Why do they make can koozies out of rubber to keep your drink cold?

Answer... Bad thermal conductor that rubber polymer stuff is.

Suggestion... Shoot the metal parts with your IR.

[Bolt]

Originally Posted by dave6666

You could be right with the sensor, but polymers are typically bad thermal conductors.

It is possible that after only 10 minutes the water is indeed 220 whilst the outside of the hose is a lower temp.

Why do they make can koozies out of rubber to keep your drink cold?

Answer... Bad thermal conductor that rubber polymer stuff is.

Suggestion... Shoot the metal parts with your IR.

After the rubber has been saturated with the heat the difference from the metal to the rubber was only 5 degrees.

[johnk]

Good luck Bolt, let us know how it turns out.....