Gasoline Question...

[01sapphirebob]

So we finally got a gas station where I work and I had a question about the gas. We only carry 87 and 93 grade gasoling. The question is that our gas has ethonal in it. About 10%. Is this bad for the viper or will it make no difference. I have a '01 RT/10. Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

[dave6666]

Kinda long, but some interesting reading here.

Strange engine heating problem (new)

Also...

Ethanol Gas in a Viper

So you work at a Wal-Mart?

[01sapphirebob]

No. I work for Costco Wholesale. After being open for about 5 1/2 years the city finally let us put up a gas station. Costco prides itself on selling quality products so I figured the same would be with the gas but I wasn't sure about the whole ethonal thing with the viper. But everyone seems to think that this should not be an issue.

[alpine7822]

I use Costco 93 all the time with no issues. I think the Viper runs a little better on Costco gas due to the extra padding in my wallet from them being about $0.20 cheaper than everyone else!

[DWR46]

No problem with 10% ethanol, Chrysler tests this fuel mix and says in the owners manual that it is fine for these cars. In actual testing, we have found that the engines run slightly cooler internally due to the alcohol providing additional cooling in the intake tract, also the lower energy content of the alcohol will result in about a 1-3% reduction in power when measured on a dyno when compared to 100% gasoline. This also translates into slightly reduced mileage. Here in Illinois, ethanol laced fuel is all we can get, and my Vipers have run fine with it for over 8 years.

[01sapphirebob]

Thanks everyone for the input. I think it will be a trip to Costco for my next fill up. Right now we are @ $4.12 for 93 octane

[Bandit3]

Just a side note-- I put in race gas and the car runs a LOT better, wish I could afford 7 bucks a gallon all the time!!

[Bolt]

When the tanker came into Costos last week I asked him if there was ethanol in the 93 octane and how much was in there. He said there is the full 10 percent ethanol in the mixture of the 93 octane. I'm getting about 185 miles to a tank full where last year I was getting 200 miles. It's definitely affecting the fuel mileage.

[Eldon]

Originally Posted by 01sapphirebob

Thanks everyone for the input. I think it will be a trip to Costco for my next fill up. Right now we are @ $4.12 for 93 octane

Wish our Costco had gas! I just filled with 91 octane at Chevron for $4.869.

[plumcrazy]

id like to hear what Tom has to say on this. he'd know the answer....

[Tom, F&L GoR]

The US OEMs have tested alcohol fuels for a loooong time and up to 10% ethanol is fine. In fact, because ethanol contains oxygen it is more prone to decompostion and forming deposits, so evaluations of detergents in gasoline must use ethanol-containing gasoline to make the test more severe.

Originally Posted by DWR46

No problem with 10% ethanol, Chrysler tests this fuel mix and says in the owners manual that it is fine for these cars. In actual testing, we have found that the engines run slightly cooler internally due to the alcohol providing additional cooling in the intake tract, also the lower energy content of the alcohol will result in about a 1-3% reduction in power when measured on a dyno when compared to 100% gasoline. This also translates into slightly reduced mileage. Here in Illinois, ethanol laced fuel is all we can get, and my Vipers have run fine with it for over 8 years.

While it should reduce volumetric fuel efficiency (miles per gallon) it should not affect power. The fuel enrichment should more than compensate and still provide full power. To what did you attribute the power loss to?

Originally Posted by Bolt

When the tanker came into Costos last week I asked him if there was ethanol in the 93 octane and how much was in there. He said there is the full 10 percent ethanol in the mixture of the 93 octane. I'm getting about 185 miles to a tank full where last year I was getting 200 miles. It's definitely affecting the fuel mileage.

Ethanol is about 1/3 oxygen. If used at 10%, then 3.33% of the gallon is oxygen. You fuel economy should not get worse by more than 3.33%, or a travel distance of 193 miles.

Originally Posted by Bandit3

Just a side note-- I put in race gas and the car runs a LOT better, wish I could afford 7 bucks a gallon all the time!!

Race gas is typically higher octane and unless you have higher compression, change the timing, or boost the engine, you wouldn't notice a difference. To get higher octane the fuel usually is made of larger molecular weight materials, so the volatility is poorer (remember that Ford advised people not to use premium if they had driveability problems.) It might behave worse more often than better. Another way to claim "race gas" is large amounts of alcohols or ethers (see discussion above.) Lastly, higher octane is achieved by tetraethyl lead (say goodbye to your catalytic converter) or MMT (technically illegal in the US.) Neither should affect performance unless your engine knocked beforehand.

There you go, I just slammed a couple of you guys. Sorry, but ask questions to discuss it more.

[plumcrazy]

i knew YOU'D have the answer...lol

[01sapphirebob]

The US OEMs have tested alcohol fuels for a loooong time and up to 10% ethanol is fine. In fact, because ethanol contains oxygen it is more prone to decompostion and forming deposits, so evaluations of detergents in gasoline must use ethanol-containing gasoline to make the test more severe.

So then maybe a silly question. Would it be wise to use this kind of gas in a car that dosen't get driven all the time since it is prone to decompostion and forming deposits?

[Tom, F&L GoR]

Excellent question. The answer is that the gasoline suppliers have conducted and passed all the required tests so that the performance of gasoline containing ethanol is not worse than gasoline alone.

Also, the deposits that form are due to heat - i.e. ethanol containing gasolines form more deposits on the intake valves and intake ports, somewhat in fuel injectors. Storage or lack of use issues are same and it won't form more deposits in the fuel tank.

[dave6666]

I wonder if Lone Star would work in a pinch if your low fuel light comes on traveling back from the Quikie Mart.