Best Tires/Techniques to Avoid Crashing ?

v10enomous

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This site is a terrific source of valuable information as I search for my first Viper. Leaning towards a GenII...

Yet I keep reading about the tendency for these cars to spin out. It seems like most folks reccomend the PS2s but is there a better choice ? Are the spin outs always under hard accelleration or what about just normal cornering ? Are there suspension mods that can better keep the rear wheels from sliding ?

I've wanted one of these cars since they first came out and I don't want to wreck it when I finally do get one...
 

VIPER GTSR 91

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Its not about the tires but it IS about the driver in a high performance machine. IF you get a Viper invest in a driveing clinic weekend such as NARRA Viper Days driveing school or a local driveing school. Yes the PS 2s are considered the best but no type of tire will keep a careless driver from spinning out.
 

dragon rider

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I went from PS1's to PS2's and if love them. Spin outs usually occur under hard acceleration when coming out of a curve, breaking to late and turning to aggressively into a curve, or cold tires. Adding air to my front tires tire, just a few psi, helps make the car turn a more neutral. This set-up may not be optimal for fast track times, but it serves to give me more confidence when driving the twisties, b/c the car becomes more forgiving for less skilled drivers like myself. :)
 

jasontiff

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I was told by a track rat to pretend that there is a string attached to your steering wheel at the top when it's dead center, with the other end attached to your gas pedal. The harder the wheel is turned, the less gas you give it, and vice versa.

The founder of Viper Days also said that the Viper is REALLY good at speed, cornering and braking, but can't do any 2 at the same time. Keep that in mind, don't overload the inputs and you'll be okay.

I've heard Kumhos are great, heard good things about Pilot Cup Sports and I'm about to throw Toyos on the car. The best all-around tire is a FRESH tire...this board is full of stories of people who are rolling on original rubber and wind up in an accident.
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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As noted , most of the issues of the back end coming around are very hard acceleration in a turn, shifting in a turn, etc., and slapping the throttle instead of squeezing it. Just have respect for the car and realize the immense amount of torque the big V10 puts out and you will likely have no issues. Keep in mind the correct PS2s were designed for the Viper. A good source to get the proper information is at the Tire Rack ( ask for Luke at ext. 362 ). He has been helping Viper owners for years, and we always call him for assistance here at the Dealership.

The gentleman who is running a bit more air in the front, is using an old autocross trick. As the front end has a tendency to push under hard cornering ( undersized tires in the front ) many will stagger the air pressure to 2-4 more lbs in the front. The car will likely feel more balanced and steer more neutral, but surprisingly safety wise, the push in the front with the tire size is probably going to keep some drivers within parameters easier , as the push will slow many down.
 

10BamBam01

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I got an '03 a little over a month ago and have had no real problems being able to handle her even at higher speeds (120MPH +). I've hit the throttle and felt it want to give away but I've been able to get out of it pretty easily. The biggest thing I've done to keep myself out of trouble is to remember that I'm driving a Viper and that it deserves my respect. The fact that it can crush me whenever I lose that respect is very obvious to me already. Squeezing the throttle versus punching it is really good advice. You begin to learn how the car will behave and can sense when she's getting ready to kill you.

My intention is start really learning how to drive, which most never learn to do with all of the computerized "bacon savers" on most cars these days. To me, this is one of the joys of owning a Viper. I'm really learning how to drive versus just learning how to punch the pedal and let the car do the tricky stuff for me. It's fun ... it really is.
 

Dom426h

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No’s
-Accelerating to hard around a turn (rear tires break loose = oversteer)
-Braking around a turn (causes weight to transfer to the front making the rear light causing her to break loose)
-Shifting during a turn (upsets the balance of the car)
-Poor Alignment: As bushings wear overtime your alignment gets out of wack.
-Old tires: Any tire will loose its stickiness through the years do to the many heat cycles they go through. Fresh tires are KEY. A fresh cheap tire is stickier than an old PS2.
-Cold Tires: The colder a tire is the harder it is = no grip.
-Lack of Experience


Go’s
- Get your braking done in a straight line Before entering a turn.
- When slowing down for a turn, downshift before entering the turn.(if needed)
- Alignment: Get it checked every couple of years. A little TOE IN in the rear will help to tame the rear end of any rear-wheel-drive vehicle.
- New tires: the newer the better. All tire options for our vipers(NittoINVO, KumhoXS, PS2, ect…) have around the same treadwear rating(~200). As long as they are fresh they alone will Not be a factor in you losing control of your viper.
- Warm Tires: Make certain to drive a few miles for your tires to get up to temperature before driving aggressively around turns.
- Experience/Practice: Purposely going past the limit in a safe area(large empty parkinglot) can give you valuable experience that might come in handy when your on the wet leaf covered backroad going Sideways around a turn.
Sometimes when I get caught in the rain I make it worth it by heading to a parking lot and getting the tail out in 2nd & 3rd gear to give me more experience on the dynamics of the viper and learning how to countersteer to keep her from spinning around. Some call this drifting. I call it learning how to tame the beast.
 

Leslie

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doesn't get any better that this list, this is PERFECT!

I can't stress enough the need to do a driving course if you can, preferably NARRA/Viper days since they know the Viper and it's handling characteristics. Almost every post I see of a Viper crash, it's been when they have poor tires, didn't let everything warm up (driver, tires, motor) and GOT on it, or slamming on the throttle in a corner.

No’s
-Accelerating to hard around a turn (rear tires break loose = oversteer)
-Braking around a turn (causes weight to transfer to the front making the rear light causing her to break loose)
-Shifting during a turn (upsets the balance of the car)
-Poor Alignment: As bushings wear overtime your alignment gets out of wack.
-Old tires: Any tire will loose its stickiness through the years do to the many heat cycles they go through. Fresh tires are KEY. A fresh cheap tire is stickier than an old PS2.
-Cold Tires: The colder a tire is the harder it is = no grip.
-Lack of Experience

Go’s
- Get your braking done in a straight line Before entering a turn.
- When slowing down for a turn, downshift before entering the turn.(if needed)
- Alignment: Get it checked every couple of years. A little TOE IN in the rear will help to tame the rear end of any rear-wheel-drive vehicle.
- New tires: the newer the better. All tire options for our vipers(NittoINVO, KumhoXS, PS2, ect…) have around the same treadwear rating(~200). As long as they are fresh they alone will Not be a factor in you losing control of your viper.
- Warm Tires: Make certain to drive a few miles for your tires to get up to temperature before driving aggressively around turns.
- Experience/Practice: Purposely going past the limit in a safe area(large empty parkinglot) can give you valuable experience that might come in handy when your on the wet leaf covered backroad going Sideways around a turn.
Sometimes when I get caught in the rain I make it worth it by heading to a parking lot and getting the tail out in 2nd & 3rd gear to give me more experience on the dynamics of the viper and learning how to countersteer to keep her from spinning around. Some call this drifting. I call it learning how to tame the beast.
 

GTS Bruce

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I have had no problem trail brakikng. Driving it like a stock car. That is turning in and braking caused major upsets. No problem down shifting if you are under braking and turning if you are smooth. Practice.Practice.Heel and Toe. Most important is to do it at a forgiving track in a forgiving corner so a screw up results in a spin wiht no damage and yes I do the both feet in thing on occasion while viewing the countryside.. GTS Bruce
 

Leslie

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I have had no problem trail brakikng. Driving it like a stock car. That is turning in and braking caused major upsets. No problem down shifting if you are under braking and turning if you are smooth. Practice.Practice.Heel and Toe. Most important is to do it at a forgiving track in a forgiving corner so a screw up results in a spin wiht no damage and yes I do the both feet in thing on occasion while viewing the countryside.. GTS Bruce


saw your Viper in the garage at the hotel in Niagara, it's awsome!
 

white out

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Go out to a empty, big parking lot (or other empty area where you can't hit anything) and get comfortable with your car, aka: make your own auto-x course. Teach yourself how to react when the tail end comes out.

Nick
 

Russ M

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R compound tires, and your fear of what little a stock viper has for power will be gone. For instance a buddy of mine has a gen 2 gts with an honest 700rwhp on a paxton setup (14psi) and he has a hard time breaking his kumho v710's loose in anything other than 1st gear. And the thing handles like its on rails, simply unbelievable what 4 good R compound tires turn these cars into.

Last time we went up mulholand he was trying to make the car purposely slide and was unable to do it to any degree that would concern me. He is a good driver but without a doubt the tires make him a Mario Andretti .
 

CitySnake

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The gentleman who is running a bit more air in the front, is using an old autocross trick. As the front end has a tendency to push under hard cornering ( undersized tires in the front ) many will stagger the air pressure to 2-4 more lbs in the front. The car will likely feel more balanced and steer more neutral, but surprisingly safety wise, the push in the front with the tire size is probably going to keep some drivers within parameters easier , as the push will slow many down.

So Bill, are you saying that the extra 2-4 lbs. in front will increase or decrease traction?
 

WILDASP

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This site is a terrific source of valuable information as I search for my first Viper. Leaning towards a GenII...

Yet I keep reading about the tendency for these cars to spin out. It seems like most folks recommend the PS2s but is there a better choice ? Are the spin outs always under hard accelleration or what about just normal cornering ? Are there suspension mods that can better keep the rear wheels from sliding ?

I've wanted one of these cars since they first came out and I don't want to wreck it when I finally do get one...
There's been a lot of good advice offered here; I'd like to add just a little.

Things you should do:
1. Think SMOOTH, and be SMOOTH. This cannot be over-emphasized in a Viper (of any generation). Even with the best (and fresh) tires, setup, and so forth, the Viper does not respond well to sudden or abrupt inputs.This also means keeping your transitions from throttle to brake, and brake to throttle, smooth. The same goes for shifting, and steering.
2. Get everything warmed up before you drive the car hard; this means tires, brakes and engine. This is not only kinder to the driveline; as has been noted, cold tires and high hp/torque don't mix well. This is especially true in cool and/or damp conditions.
3. FOCUS! This car demands your full attention! The cockpit of a Viper is no place for woolgathering, yakking on a cell phone, or any other form of distracted/inattentive driving - PERIOD! On the street, be alert to the traffic around you; this makes it less likely you will have to do anything sudden (See no. 1)
4. Keep BOTH hands on the wheel except when shifting. The best time to adjust the a/c. radio, etc. is when you are stopped. Like any car with wide front tires, a Viper will bump steer and tramline (follow groves in the pavement). This may be disconcerting to newbies, but is not a serious problem, IF you are aware of it, and paying attention.
5. Work up to your personal limits in the car slowly and carefully; then, STAY WITHIN THEM. YOUR limits are THE limits (regardless of what the car will do)!
6. If you have not been to a high-performance driving course, GO TO ONE! At a minimum, go to an HPDE (or two, or three). Learn and practice your skills with the best guidance you can get, in a controlled environment.
7. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE! There is no such thing as too good, and ALL of us can improve. You can even do some of this on public roads (at a reasonable speed and with no traffic); practice heel and toe downshifting, driving the correct line through a corner, etc, until you can do it correctly, every time, without having to think about it.

Things you should NOT do:

1. Stab the throttle or brake. Squeeze it, DON'T slam it!
2. Turn into a corner too soon; this is called "early apex". It's a natural novice mistake. It's also the worst line through a turn, gets the car out of shape, and can lead to a spin, especially if your entry is too fast to begin with. The Viper's normal understeer is your friend here (at least while you're learning) as it tends to keep you from doing this.
3. Shift while turning; as has been noted, it unsettles the car.
4. Short shift (upshifting way below redline) under hard acceleration; this can cause snap oversteer. The same goes for quickly going to wide open throttle in a higher gear than necessary. This is the classic "Viper Bite", and the ONLY place you want to experience it is in a closed environment, like a big, empty parking lot or a skid pad, where you can't hit anything.
5. Show off - EVER! YOUR EGO IS NOT WORTH YOUR LIFE OR ANYONE ELSE'S, nor is it worth wrecking your Snake! The last place, THE VERY LAST PLACE, for demonstrating your machismo or bravado is behind the wheel of a Viper! Before you get in, strap in, shut the door, and push the start button, park your ego outside and leave it there, until you park the car and shut it off.
6. Street race - EVER! Keep the competition on the track, drag strip, or autocross course!
7. Assume that any tire, modification, or setup is a substitute for skill, experience, and sound judgment.

Keep those things in mind, and you and your Snake should have a long and happy relationship. Enjoy!
 

MtnBiker

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"5. Show off - EVER! YOUR EGO IS NOT WORTH YOUR LIFE OR ANYONE ELSE'S, nor is it worth wrecking your Snake! The last place, THE VERY LAST PLACE, for demonstrating your machismo or bravado is behind the wheel of a Viper! Before you get in, strap in, shut the door, and push the start button, park your ego outside and leave it there, until you park the car and shut it off."


Good stuff any day of the week.
 
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troublemaker

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No matter what type of vehicle it is I always have had a rule that a tire only has 100% of it traction when given inputs. If I am using 50% to accelerate, I only have 50% left for braking and turning, if I am using 90% to turn, that leaves little on the table for braking or a accelerating. This is open to interpretation, but a skilled driver can squeeze a little more out of it by being able to know what to do when things have exceeded the laws of physics.
 

Fatboy 18

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I would also recommend finding a wide quite road, and practise braking hard in a straight line, you will get an idea of grip levels, start off slow 25- 30mph and see just how much grip you have.

Or a large car park can be good for this, but make sure there are no street Light poles, trees, mail boxes or obstructions near by. Also good to try this in the wet for a whole new experience!

On old pilot sport 1s, my front wheels had non existent grip under 30mph! They just locked up straight away, so to counter act this I had to use the pump the brake pedal method to simulate ABS.

Pilot sport 2s are much better, but In all honestly I think its because the rubber is not as old.
 

DJ'sviper

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My experience is that I wish I would have read the above advice before I raced it. First time, original tires 15 year old tires at an 1/8th mile track. Almost totaled it but by some miracle only a scratch on the back bumber after sliding into other drag lane. With Viper tax. $2,500 to fix. Second time I lost control on straight away with race driver. Let it go sideways into middle of coarse instead of wall. Didn't try to correct it. Both times was shifting into 2nd gear. Went through a few driving coarses but doesn't mean you know everything. My 93 is beautiful and getting to know the car better. Still like to drive it hard but only on tracks. Was downtown and a kid was trying to get me to punch it at a a stop light. He started cursing me and screaming. Just then a couple jay walked in front of me. I would have hit them if he would have goated me into punching it. Coarse I punch it a little when no ones around but not crazy stuff. Law just doesn't seem to have a sense of humor anymore. Track days are great and if I can I have a professional driver with me as much as I can. There is a difference in the drivers. I had one drive my car while I was in the passanger side and he lost it going into second. He was also driving a lot slower than me. He was used to porche's. This drives like my go cart I used to have.
 

BlknBlu

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always wear youseat belts and have both hands on the steering wheel except to shift. Look out at least 500 feat ahead of you and always have an exit strategy. I know that is not part of experience and tires,but decisions and proper fitting in the car also go a long way.

Bruce
 

Oilman1934

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I just put toyo ra1 set on and for my use ,fair weather only, they are incredible they are dot race tires which the viper is , the car sticks to the road like glue and feels much safer the con side of it is longevity but most of us threw our tires out before there used ,so they will last about 10000 miles for me thats three years anyway.
 

Zee

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How common is it to loose the viper going in a straight line assuming you have newer tires, warmed up, etc? Or is it mostly around corners?
 

Fatboy 18

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Snappy gear changing can cause a Viper to get out of shape in a straight line ;)
I think more Vipers have been written off by gear changing than anything else, ...when you hit the top of 3rd and you want to shift into 4th, if your not careful you can pull the shifter back into 2nd, lift the clutch and have a :omg: moment! If you don't catch it fast the rear locks up and sends the car into a spin :(

I've had this happen to me several times, (not the spin bit) Ive always managed to just catch it just in time, but Its a Worrying moment as you hear the revs scream up!

This is one of the reasons there are so many shifter modifications out there ;)

Ive also found the car likes to go slightly to the right when giving the car full beans off the line. Nadine was telling me its something to do with how the rear Diff lines up or something? I can't quite remember. Its OK if you are aware of it, these Snakes require a lot of respect ;)
 

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