Illustrated Upgrades Forum

Greetings!

This is a quick note to let you know about our Illustrated Upgrades forum and the content therein.

As many of you already know, the Illustrated Upgrades guide was an integral part of the previous website. Lovingly built by VCA Members over the years, there are numerous guides for doing all kinds of things with your Viper. Everything from installing K&N filters or burping your cooling system to installing racing harnesses or adding stripes to your car yourself. All with step-by-step instructions, lists of tools needed, etc. And most with very detailed pictures - making them truly "illustrated".

We have recently begun "resurrecting" all of those older guides and adding them into the Illustrated Upgrades forum as well. Indeed, expect several more great guides on there later today (skip-shift disable, roller rocker install, etc.). However not everybody will be able to see the content.

After very careful consideration by your VCA Web Committee, it has been decided that the actual content of that forum will be restricted to VCA Members and Site Sponsors. Now you folks that are listed as Viper Owners, please clean off the coffee you just spit on your keyboard and bear with me for a second:

This website costs money to run. A lot of money. In calendar year 2006 we spent $22,776.89 on this website alone. Now, we are able to offset a good portion of that cost with the generous help of our advertisers and sponsors. The site itself is programmed by paid programmers ETP, Inc. & BosDev, Inc. (Michael Pierce and Don Boston). However the administration of the site is done entirely by VCA volunteers that don't earn a single penny for their hard work. Likewise with the Illustrated Upgrades - they were done by VCA Members to help fellow VCA members visiting the site.

All we are asking is that if you own a Viper that you join the VCA. Chances are good you spent some pretty good money on your car and another $100 (for 2007 and all of 2008) is chickenfeed by comparison. Part of the witness protection program? No problem - a valid VIN and you can be John Doe with a PO Box. The club has no political or religious agendas - we want only to provide the BEST ownership experience for our members that is possible. In return we will provide you with so many great benefits that your will wonder how you get it all for only $100:

• VIPER magazine subscription - a greatly glossy magazine published quarterly
• VCA Notes - the club newsletter with lots of great info, also quarterly
• Eligibility to enter the VCA raffles, featuring some spectacular Vipers that you can win
• $1,000,000 liability insurance at official VCA events
• Access to exclusive VCA merchandise, apparel, and much more
• Exclusive offers such as our Monroney window sticker replacement program
• Great discounts from supporting vendors like Parts Rack, Viper Days, and many, many more
• Liaison to the manufacturer for outstanding support and information
• The very latest Viper news from SRT
• Local events from your regional club
• Regional newsletters, some of which are VIPER magazine quality
• Exclusive events such as the Detroit Grand Prix, Viper vs. Viper, etc.
• And much, much more!

And here on the website as a VCA Member you get:

• Posting privileges in all general Viper Forums
• Posting & viewing privileges in VCA Members forum
• Posting privileges in VCA Regional forums
• Posting privileges in VCA Viper Events and Gatherings forum
• Ability to upload and display personal avatar (Vipers only please)
• Ability to write and use personal signature for all posts
• Ability to see all content in Illustrated Upgrades
• Gallery privileges up to 500 MB of uploads
• Up to 5000 Private Messages allowed
• FREE Classified ad posting (normally $30 each)
• Online purchase of raffle tickets and Monroney reprints
• Access to exclusive SRT merchandise in VCA Members forum
• Exclusive merchandise from VCA Goods
• Future exclusives such as VCA private auctions, online renewals, and much more!

Whew! The bottom line is simple: This site is owned and operated by the VCA in order to provide a great experience for our members, visitors, and even those Viper owners that don't want to pony up the money to join the club. In order to do that we want to increase our membership and provide even more benefits in the future. And one of those benefits is unlimited access to the Illustrated Upgrades content.

We appreciate your understanding and hope you enjoy the new Illustrated Upgrades.

That sounds fair to me. Would love to see more basic how-to's as well (change oil, brakes, etc.) for all gens. Perhaps a sticky list of the procedures people want to see?

How about a rewards program? People that go through the trouble of doing a set amount of guides, or even the volunteer moderators, should get some or all of the membership subsidized, or maybe points towards VCA gear? That will encourage more people to submit... which are still few compared to the people who would want and be willing to pay for the info/membership. Just a thought.

After very careful consideration by your VCA Web Committee, it has been decided that the actual content of that forum will be restricted to VCA Members and Site Sponsors.

So did the commitee also check to see that everyone that contributed to the Illustrated Upgrades were ALL actual VCA Members that had their dues paid in advance ???

I think it's a good deal for the buck on what the board has to offer. But not everyone is a "Club" person. I've been a Viper Owner since 1995 with a member number of just over 500. But have remained an "Enthusiast" for about 10 years now. Just hope you don't make a lot of people that have contributed over the years feel as they don't count any longer, since it appears as MONEY is your number one goal here.

A1998 said:

So did the commitee also check to see that everyone that contributed to the Illustrated Upgrades were ALL actual VCA Members that had their dues paid in advance ???

I think it's a good deal for the buck on what the board has to offer. But not everyone is a "Club" person. I've been a Viper Owner since 1995 with a member number of just over 500. But have remained an "Enthusiast" for about 10 years now. Just hope you don't make a lot of people that have contributed over the years feel as they don't count any longer, since it appears as MONEY is your number one goal here.

Click to expand...

Actually, yes - the published guides were all submitted by VCA members at the time. And more are on the way - also courtesy of VCA members.

Ironically MONEY is not our #1 goal here. Truth be told, the National club gets ZERO from your dues - not even a corroded penny. The goal is to reward those that actually SUPPORT the club as a whole by becoming members. Why should the VCA spend $20K+ a year, provide detailed instruction guides, and offer countless other benefits to people that give ZERO in return? You don't have to be a "club" person or attend a single event. We have members too numerous to count that have never once appeared to another member. No big deal. But to be expected to provide the same benefits to a Viper owner that somebody else is paying for, well, that just doesn't make sense.

We hope you will consider rejoining the club at some point. We can even reissue your original number to you if you wish. Best bang for the buck you will find - club person or not.

As one who was attempting to use the How Tos yesterday at about 3 PM, I expect your ears were burning a bit.

As one "Owner" who was considering submitting a How To, I see I will now have to pay for that privilege.

Seriously, I have not joined for the past two years because it does not appear that there is much going on locally in Indy (so not much benefit), and because I assumed that DC and the sponsors were footing the bill. I do greatly appreciate what the officers do, but I don't see any link with their efforts and paying dues.

I think a very effective sales promotion would be to show how your dues are really allocated, and why they are needed to continue to provide this forum. That is a piece of the puzzle I have not seen. How much of the dues go to running the forum vs. other activities? Outside of the reported $22,776.89 spent on the website, the finances of the club are invisible.

I spend a lot of money with our sponsors, even that crabby SOB JonB, so indirectly I do support the forum. You could tell this from my list of mods in my signature, except I can't post that anymore.

The information obtained off the free website is well worth the $100 to viper owners if you ask my opinion. I know I've saved about 50 times that amount on mods or repairs and even avoided repairs due to the content of this site and the help of all of its members. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's the best $100 I spend in a year !

As author of:
DOOR POPPER FOR '93 THROUGH 96 VIPER ROADSTERS

How can I make changes to the contents?
The Illustrated Upgrades appear as forum threads, but I was unable to even post a reply to the thread.
I need to change the Email address posted when this Illustrated Upgrade was posted way back in about 2001-2002. The Email shown in the Upgrade shows as:
[email protected]

Recipe by: Tom McCarty and Don Ruckman
[email protected]

THIS IS NO LONGER CORRECT AND SHOULD BE:
[email protected]

Thank You,

I just got off the phone with the VCA and I paid up and joined without hesitation. As a newer member to the community, I have already learned so much and gained ALOT of tips and advice, I think the $100 is pennies on the dollar for what all the info has been worth. Knowledge is truely priceless. I support this new direction 100% and I want to thank all those who volunteer their time to make all this happen.

A1998 said:

I've been a Viper Owner since 1995 with a member number of just over 500. But have remained an "Enthusiast" for about 10 years now. Just hope you don't make a lot of people that have contributed over the years feel as they don't count any longer, since it appears as MONEY is your number one goal here.

Click to expand...

So for 12 years you've owned Vipers. You belonged to the club for 2 years. And you made a total of 125 posts.

Thanks for your contribution.

I thought the dues were only $60 until the end of the year as a promotion?

I'm planning on becoming a member, although I still feel a little shaded. I have no real enthusiasm towards any regional events. As cool as I think it would be to see a row of Vipers and meet some of you, it's a long drive to Illinois just to chill with people 20 years my senior(no offense).

Can you give some examples of the promotions and deals that Viper Club Members get, as I'm sure that will bring people in if they know they might get at least some of their money back through deals with sponsors.

Thanks!

In the long information above-right now for first time members it is $100 for the rest of 2007 & 2008. I just got off the phone with Beth at JRT and that is correct. A great deal for first timers.

Just some membership questions..

Y2K5SRT said:

$1,000,000 liability insurance at official VCA events

Click to expand...

If you can elaborate details - Does this apply for VCO / Ontario events ? Is this for off road racing events only ?

Y2K5SRT said:

get it all for only $100:

Click to expand...

It appears we (Canadians) have been paying more than $100 in the past, is this going to be adjusted due to the current exchange rate?

Thanks for any info,
Mike

PS - This site is well worth the membership dues, just thinking about the times to diagnose a problem rather then spending money at a dealer, learn how to fix things yourself on top of the aforementioned VCA privileges is a great ROI.

Chris:

It's a decision that **** and is uncalled for,I not saying that for me personaly since I have been wrenching on Vipers and race cars long enough that I don't really need nor use the "illustrated upgrades".

the illustrated upgrades and every single post that answer a question,or offer some help to fix a problem/issue,have the same purpose and end result: helping a fellow viper owner.
What next? maybe the person that have an electrical problem with a door will only be able to learn that the issue is almost all the time with the wiring harness between the door and A post ,if he is a member?

As for "people that give ZERO in return" ( obviously because they are not member), that's a load of crap.
How do the VCA calculate it's advertising rate? based on the numbers of members or peoples that visit this web site,being members, owners or simply labelled enthousiast?
Do you thing that sponsors will pay the same amount of $ if this site was for members only?
What about the countless numbers of posts,made by owners or enthousiasts, helping a MEMBER solve a problem?

What about the fact that if it was not for ALL the viper OWNERS, not members only, most,if not all the sponsors, that,obviously make this web site financially possible, will go out of business and consequently, put YOU ( nothing personal, you're a good guy) out of business.?
And what about the stated goal of the VCA?

The club's objectives are simple:

• Help Viper Owners have more fun with their Vipers

No where did it said Viper Owners and MEMBERS only.

Luc 00GTS

PS: If you own an very early 2000, and your engine use way too much oil, I will only tell you why if you're a VCA member otherwise I'm not willing nor interested in helping you.





Ironically MONEY is not our #1 goal here. Truth be told, the National club gets ZERO from your dues - not even a corroded penny. The goal is to reward those that actually SUPPORT the club as a whole by becoming members. Why should the VCA spend $20K+ a year, provide detailed instruction guides, and offer countless other benefits to people that give ZERO in return? You don't have to be a "club" person or attend a single event. We have members too numerous to count that have never once appeared to another member. No big deal. But to be expected to provide the same benefits to a Viper owner that somebody else is paying for, well, that just doesn't make sense.

We hope you will consider rejoining the club at some point. We can even reissue your original number to you if you wish. Best bang for the buck you will find - club person or not

Cop Magnet said:

So for 12 years you've owned Vipers. You belonged to the club for 2 years. And you made a total of 125 posts.

Thanks for your contribution.

Click to expand...

PM's don't show up as posts. I've sent alot of info that way,and added to illustrated upgrades via posts.Don't mind helping if I can,and I don't charge for it.

Where did I hear about it being only $60 till the end of the year as a way to get more people in?

Some valid arguments on both sides.

Limit said:

Where did I hear about it being only $60 till the end of the year as a way to get more people in?

Some valid arguments on both sides.

Click to expand...

The $60 was the charge for the remaining quarter for 2007-just for 2007.
This was a deal offered to new members for $100 for the rest of 2007 along with 2008.
I think it's more than a generous offer.

Venomiss, For what it's worth, they told me I was in your region when I signed up today. I just noticed yours next to your picture.

xlrashn said:

Venomiss, For what it's worth, they told me I was in your region when I signed up today. I just noticed yours next to your picture.

Click to expand...

Welcome to a great club and thank you for joining! Please feel free to PM me with any questions. Gets you the Viper Magazine, an avatar on this site, and you
should be eligible to buy raffle tickets until Oct.22 for the new 2008 Viper that will be given away on October 31st. (In case they didn't mention it).
It will also get you into the Illustrated section along with many other perks.
Maybe get a few pictures of your Viper by Thomas or Elllis parks with the leaves changing...

What are some of the promotion items and deals the sponsors give exclusively to VCA members?

Since I'm more than likely won't be attending any events. At this juncture, $25 per issue of a quarterly magazine and newsletter is far from worth my money. Even with an avatar and signature...

I'm not trying to be an ass or anything. I'd just like an example or two as ways I can see my money coming back to me through some of these deals. I don't think any of us got the money to afford a Viper by being stupid with any money we have, even $100...

I'll more than likely still become a member, I, as well as many other "Viper Owner"s, will be a lot more willing if we can see some instances where that money will be coming back to us.

Thanks,
Mark

Limit said:

What are some of the promotion items and deals the sponsors give exclusively to VCA members?

Since I'm more than likely won't be attending any events. At this juncture, $25 per issue of a quarterly magazine and newsletter is far from worth my money. Even with an avatar and signature...

I'm not trying to be an ass or anything. I'd just like an example or two as ways I can see my money coming back to me through some of these deals. I don't think any of us got the money to afford a Viper by being stupid with any money we have, even $100...

I'll more than likely still become a member, I, as well as many other "Viper Owner"s, will be a lot more willing if we can see some instances where that money will be coming back to us.

Thanks,
Mark

Click to expand...

Mark,
They have all been good questions and I am going to let me hubby explain each and everyone when he gets in from traveling on his "real" job. He has much more knowledge
on the discounts and services from the national vendor side than I do. The revamp of website list of vendors is coming in the near future. (He's been a little busy!)
What I can tell you is that locally in KC, we get discounts on parts and service from local dealers along with merchandise(shirts to car lifts to driving schools) and we get more than our moneys's worth back. That's just for being a VCA member.
May take a bit before you get an answer to the rest of the questions.
Venomiss

Okay, I have been typing replies to all of these for the past three hours - ever since I got home from the airport. Now with some 20 sleepless hours I think I will edit them tomorrow. But to satisfy a few, here is a Cliff Notes version of some of the answers:

Purdue - The National VCA gets Z-E-R-O from member dues - not a single penny. We publish a full financial report for our members (waiting on our accountant to release the latest). And local events are great, but over 75% of our members typically never attend a single one - they renew for all the other benefits as listed in the first post in this thread.

ruckdr - fixed!

Limit (and others) - $60 was for the third quarter: Pay $60 in July-September and get the remainder of 2007. NOW it is $100 for the remainder of 2007 AND all of 2008. The best deal a new member will ever get...

luc - You missed the point completely. We aren't a "members only" site and never will be. Nor are we discouraging ANYBODY from asking/answering questions or helping each other out - member or not. Want to know about the oil burning on the early 2000's? Ask away and you will get several accurate answers for ALL people to see and without editing or deleting (and I will bet I can answer that question in particular better than most). Want a full tutorial with numerous pictures on how to add 6-point harnesses? Then join the club. Answering questions and helping people with problems is one thing, publishing detailed "how-to" upgrade manuals is entirely different.

And the sponsors analogy is also totally off. The NFL doesn't need Budweiser's money to stay in business and Budweiser doesn't need the NFL to sell beer. But they are mutually beneficial to one another and that's why they do what they do. We help our sponsors and they help us. It has ZERO to do with anything we are discussing here. The "objective" statement is also taken out of context, as our goal is to help Viper owners that are part of the club. We aren't refusing to help non-members, but we aren't going to work overtime to help them when they give ZERO in return.

grcforce327 - We don't charge for it either. We simply provide some things to the folks that actually pay to belong to the club. You guys do realize that this is the Viper Club of America site and not Viper Owners In General site, right? We welcome all with open arms (obviously), but reward those that actually belong to the club. Anybody can go in Costco. But you have to be a member to take advantage of the discounts in all but the pharmacy and snack stand. They own the store and you play by their rules. And nobody complains because that is simply how things work: You reward your paying members and try to encourage others to join.

Limit (part II) - We have numerous vendors such as PartsRack, Viper Days, Woodhouse, Helmet City, Tators, etc. that provide GREAT discounts exclusively to VCA members. Make a couple purchases a year and your membership can easily pay for itself. And then you get all those benefits listed in the first post at no extra charge.

Okay, gotta run. May post the longer answers tomorrow, but hopefully this will get you started.

I think I caused all of this. Yup. Guilty.

Y2K5SRT said:

luc - You missed the point completely. We aren't a "members only" site and never will be. Nor are we discouraging ANYBODY from asking/answering questions or helping each other out - member or not. Want to know about the oil burning on the early 2000's? Ask away and you will get several accurate answers for ALL people to see and without editing or deleting (and I will bet I can answer that question in particular better than most). Want a full tutorial with numerous pictures on how to add 6-point harnesses? Then join the club. Answering questions and helping people with problems is one thing, publishing detailed "how-to" upgrade manuals is entirely different.

grcforce327 - We don't charge for it either. We simply provide some things to the folks that actually pay to belong to the club. You guys do realize that this is the Viper Club of America site and not Viper Owners In General site, right? We welcome all with open arms (obviously), but reward those that actually belong to the club. Anybody can go in Costco. But you have to be a member to take advantage of the discounts in all but the pharmacy and snack stand. They own the store and you play by their rules. And nobody complains because that is simply how things work: You reward your paying members and try to encourage others to join.

Limit (part II) - We have numerous vendors such as PartsRack, Viper Days, Woodhouse, Helmet City, Tators, etc. that provide GREAT discounts exclusively to VCA members. Make a couple purchases a year and your membership can easily pay for itself. And then you get all those benefits listed in the first post at no extra charge.

Click to expand...

I disagree!You are coming across as a member's site only.You are pushing more people away with these open arms.
I purchased many parts from Chuck,not because of the discount,( I can purchase the same parts cheaper through our shop)but because he is a great person to deal with and chat with(ie support)!

Y2K5SRT said:

Purdue - The National VCA gets Z-E-R-O from member dues - not a single penny. We publish a full financial report for our members (waiting on our accountant to release the latest). And local events are great, but over 75% of our members typically never attend a single one - they renew for all the other benefits as listed in the first post in this thread.

Click to expand...

OK, stick with me on this one. I've still not had my morning coffee.

Y2K5SRT, you are the National VCA Treasurer. You are saying that you get ZERO from the dues? So, you collect the dues, and distribute every penny? Who gets the money? Is it the local chapters? Can I start my own local chapter?

Venomiss, would love to post some pics, just waiting for the e-mail with my member# to get the status changed here to enable me to. They said late this week or next. I was actually thinking about getting pics down around Coraville Lake. I also have a couple pics from Saturday night that Chad with the McViper should like (hint:girls in orange shorts). Will keep you posted.

dave6666 said:

I think I caused all of this. Yup. Guilty.

Click to expand...

NOT at all, Devil Dave!!! You write eloquently about the projects you are doing, and we'd love to see you write more in the exclusive illustrated section~~juli

Perhaps if the decision to make the illustrateds a member benefit was put up for a vote to users of this site, BEFORE the decision was made, using that nifty new survey feature for which we have yet to see the results from the first poll... ....THEN maybe this would've been easier to swallow for those that are against it. Although I've been a VCA member and assumed the illustrateds were a priviledge for members I have no issue with it as a member benefit. Heck...I've gladly traded $100 (which is about 1.5 tanks/27 gallons of gas for me) for the wealth of information, benefits and writeups. BUT I (and I feel most people here) would've like to have a say in the decision before it was handed down to us by the VCA. A little more user input and transparency into these decisions may go a long way.

I agree with vipertony,
you should let the members decide how the site is run.

I was a strong member of the last forum I was apart of, and after learning the car very well, I was able to give lots of useful tech info and many,many writeups (I love doing writeups) to fellow owners (not members only).
I think info should be free to the public - isn't that the point of the internet?
If you want to give out members only info then stick with a newsletter/magazine, don't corrupt the worldwideweb with selfishness.

BTW, I'll probably still become a member because I like being involved with events and meetings, but from now on I'll be hanging around the Alley.
And when I get comfortable with this car, I'll probably put my writeups on that 'other' forum.
I really don't do well on sites that try to 'protect' me for my own good - all hail BigBrother!

Chris:
And why don'y you restrict this web site access to VCA members only?
I bet that the answer is that, beside not being able anymore to promote the VCA to potential "customers", without all the non-members the volume of traffic will be way smaller and consequently,beside the advertising rate taking a plunge ( and you say that most of the cost of running this site is paid by advertisers and sponsors),the wealth of information,ideas,and help that this web site make available to VCA members,will be greatly reduced.
So, on 1 hand you need the non-members in order to have a viable business and to help the members but, on the other hand you want to limit the non-members access to information that will not exist ( or for sure not to the extent that it does) without them participating to those forums in the first place.
I call that being hypocrite.

As for your stated reason to put in place such a policy ( bringing more members),maybe you should reflect on why so many viper owners either have never been a member or ( like me) decided not to renew.
I give you a little hint:have a lot more to do with the way the club is run (I'm sure that Magic Wand will ring a bell) than the $100/year

Luc 00GTS

Sorry it took so long. My replies are below each quote, so you don't have to read this in one sitting...

grcforce327 said:

I disagree!You are coming across as a member's site only.You are pushing more people away with these open arms.
I purchased many parts from Chuck,not because of the discount,( I can purchase the same parts cheaper through our shop)but because he is a great person to deal with and chat with(ie support)!

Click to expand...

Not true. We are getting more and more people visiting these forums than ever before. Our registrations are climbing faster than ever before, and more people are signing up for VCA memberships than I have ever seen in the past. Certainly we are delighted that you buy from Chuck and that the site apparently wasn't a factor. But like luc above, it is immaterial: More people are made aware of Chuck and other vendors just by coming here. We aren't saying that without us they wouldn't get business - that's ludicrous to even think. What they are getting is exposure - and lots of it. Six months ago the ads here were getting about 9,600 exposures a day. As of last week those same ads were seeing over 36,000 exposures per day. Rest assured that we aren't driving anybody away, we are working to improve the site and offer more things to our visitors and members. We just favor our members because that is absolutely the way it should be.

Purdue_Boiler_Viper said:

Y2K5SRT, you are the National VCA Treasurer. You are saying that you get ZERO from the dues? So, you collect the dues, and distribute every penny? Who gets the money? Is it the local chapters? Can I start my own local chapter?

Click to expand...

Stunning as this was to me, you are correct. With my hand placed firmly on a stack of bibles and even a pinky-swear thrown in for good measure, here is the deal:

Membership dues and renewals go directly to JR Thompson Company in Farmington Hills, Michigan - also known as "Viper Headquarters", which is run exclusively by JRT. Somebody pays a local region the $100? That region forwards the check to JRT. JRT then sends a portion of that $100 to the regional club. Either $55.00 or $52.85 if the membership is paid by credit card (credit card fees deducted). The remaining $45 (or $43.25 for credit cards stays with JRT. Here is how that $45.00 money breaks down:

• 1 year subscription to VIPER Magazine - $25.00
• K & K Insurance - $9.36
• Membership Badges - $5.25 (2 per member number)
• Includes creative, badges, postage, imprinting, supplies
• and mail coordination
  HQ Membership Management - *$5.39 (summary)

* Membership management includes:

• On average, Viper Headquarters receives 1,000 phone calls and 900 emails per month.
• Toll Free membership assistance (800-998-1110) to members and officers (all associated costs)
• Email support for membership assistance
• Data Entry for all membership applications
• COOL Program Management
• Database and Management/IT support
• Continual membership updates with new emails/new addresses/phone #’s
• Renewal Mailings (3 per year) Includes all creative, materials, postage, mail coordination
• All accounting including check deposits, credit card processing, etc.
• Clerical support

And VIPER magazine breaks down like this:

VCA Member VM Subscription = $25 (for 4 issues)
1st Class Mail = $2.21 per issue

Non VCA Member VM Subscription = $28 (for 4 issues)
3rd Class Mail = $1.38 per issue

Newsstand = $28 (for 4 issues)

So there you have it. And as you can see, not a single penny of those dues reaches the national VCA treasury. Z-E-R-O.

xlrashn said:

Venomiss, would love to post some pics, just waiting for the e-mail with my member# to get the status changed here to enable me to. They said late this week or next.

Click to expand...

No need to wait, your VCA member number was verified with VCA HQ and updated in your profile. You are all set and welcome to the VCA!

ViperTony said:

Perhaps if the decision to make the illustrateds a member benefit was put up for a vote to users of this site, BEFORE the decision was made, using that nifty new survey feature for which we have yet to see the results from the first poll... ....THEN maybe this would've been easier to swallow for those that are against it. Although I've been a VCA member and assumed the illustrateds were a priviledge for members I have no issue with it as a member benefit. Heck...I've gladly traded $100 (which is about 1.5 tanks/27 gallons of gas for me) for the wealth of information, benefits and writeups. BUT I (and I feel most people here) would've like to have a say in the decision before it was handed down to us by the VCA. A little more user input and transparency into these decisions may go a long way.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with the concept, but would argue that the practicality is a little more difficult. The survey tool is being perfected, having had a few Enthusiasts (Vette owners probably) mess with the last one. Nothing major, but we know they were in there. The results of that survey are being compiled and sent to SRT among others. We will publish them for all to see at some point soon, but SRT gets first blush. I am sure you can appreciate that.

The other challenge is to get a "vote" from all or even the majority of the VCA membership is impossible. Instead we turn to your elected leaders to provide feedback based not only on what members would want, but also what is best for the club. Our web committee consists of two Regional presidents, two Zone director/DAL's, one general member, and one National officer. They are a very diverse group and will often disagree on different approaches. No arguing, just different opinions that reflect their views of the club and the website. It is a GREAT group. In this particular case, it was the most liberal member of the committee (and least likely to restrict anything on the forums) that suggested making the Illustrated Upgrades a member benefit. Nobody was more surprised than I was, but all supported it - including me. I cautioned that there could be some backlash but offered to take the heat accordingly. And so it is.

BOTTLEFED said:

I agree with vipertony,
you should let the members decide how the site is run.

Click to expand...

You aren't a member, so your vote wouldn't count anyway.

BOTTLEFED said:

I was a strong member of the last forum I was apart of, and after learning the car very well, I was able to give lots of useful tech info and many,many writeups (I love doing writeups) to fellow owners (not members only). I think info should be free to the public - isn't that the point of the internet? If you want to give out members only info then stick with a newsletter/magazine, don't corrupt the worldwideweb with selfishness.

Click to expand...

I'm with you, I LOVE doing write ups and actually have done a few myself. Click here if you want to swap out your grill on your 300C. Oh, and that 300C forum? Don't get too excited about them being "free to the public" - they also have a membership program even though they have NO club! $30 a year with no magazines, insurance, local events, member badges, renewal gifts, exclusive raffle cars, free Classifieds, etc., etc. What I simply can't emphasize enough is that this site is owned and operated by the Viper Club of America. We pay for it (a LOT) and simply want to grow our membership in return.

BOTTLEFED said:

BTW, I'll probably still become a member because I like being involved with events and meetings, but from now on I'll be hanging around the Alley.

Click to expand...

Good for you, as I also hang out there from time to time. Just make SURE that you buy a membership there too, as some of the forums there are also "invisible" to non-paying members. Here are your membership/supporter fees:

Bronze Supporter - $15 every six months which includes avatars, additional PM space (1000 max) and ability to upload 1mb attachments

Silver Supporter - $25 per year (volume discounted Bronze) which includes avatars, additional PM space (1000 max) and ability to upload 1mb attachments

Gold Supporter - $60 per year which includes avatars, additional PM space (2500 max) and ability to upload 2mb attachments.

Platinum Supporter - $100 for two years (volume discounted Gold) which includes avatars, additional PM space (5,000 max) and ability to upload 2mb attachments and access to the Professionals/Business Center forum and Poker Alley.

Diamond Supporter - $250 for life, which includes avatars, additional PM space (10,000 max) and ability to upload 2mb attachments and access to the Professionals/Business Center forum and Poker Alley.

President Supporter - $500 for life, which includes avatars, additional PM space (25,000 max) and ability to upload 5mb attachments and to see "invisible" users. Also includes access to the Professionals/Business Center forum and Poker Alley.

Onyx Supporter - $1000 for life, which includes all of the above and some other stuff only the Onyx Members know.

Looks like whatever you do that you will need to pony up some $$ to get the most out of that site - including an avatar. So much for that "free to the public" argument. Oh, and I am a Diamond Supporter myself.

BOTTLEFED said:

And when I get comfortable with this car, I'll probably put my writeups on that 'other' forum. I really don't do well on sites that try to 'protect' me for my own good - all hail BigBrother!

Click to expand...

Go for it! We aren't "protecting you" from anything - we are simply offering more content to those that support the VCA, you know, the ones that own this site? And just like about ANY other car forum (including Viper Alley), they offer more content to those that support them. I am at a loss as to how this doesn't make sense to some folks.

luc said:

Chris:
And why don'y you restrict this web site access to VCA members only?
I bet that the answer is that, beside not being able anymore to promote the VCA to potential "customers", without all the non-members the volume of traffic will be way smaller and consequently,beside the advertising rate taking a plunge ( and you say that most of the cost of running this site is paid by advertisers and sponsors),the wealth of information,ideas,and help that this web site make available to VCA members,will be greatly reduced.

Click to expand...

Again, the argument is extremely flawed. It's like saying that all NFL games will be closed to the public unless you bought a season ticket. No TV broadcasts either. Gee, think they would have problems? Think they would have as many advertisers as they do? And do you honestly think they are that stupid? Well neither are we. This site offers a TON of things to non-members every single day. How many sites can you go register for free and start uploading your personal photos for free? Just as an FYI, that bandwidth and disk space costs the VCA money. How many sites can you go to with a "NEED HELP!" post and immediately get thoughtful answers from paid members (and they usually are)? And without the ridicule that some sites will generate. This site offers a TON to people that use it day in and day out (several have thousands of posts) yet never give anything back to the club that pays for it and makes it all possible. Maybe some of you should ask who is being the selfish one here.

luc said:

So, on 1 hand you need the non-members in order to have a viable business and to help the members but, on the other hand you want to limit the non-members access to information that will not exist ( or for sure not to the extent that it does) without them participating to those forums in the first place.
I call that being hypocrite.

Click to expand...

See above. The NFL needs the general public but gives more to the people that actually PAY to attend a game. Costco would die a swift death without the general public but you can't buy a breathmint there without a membership. Why have a club at all if we owe you everything we give our paid members? Hypocritical? Puhlease. It's called p-r-a-c-t-i-c-a-l and how businesses are run. Or maybe you should start giving away everything you or your employer sells - or are you a hypocrite too?

luc said:

As for your stated reason to put in place such a policy ( bringing more members),maybe you should reflect on why so many viper owners either have never been a member or (like me) decided not to renew. I give you a little hint:have a lot more to do with the way the club is run (I'm sure that Magic Wand will ring a bell) than the $100/year

Click to expand...

Oh please. If you honestly think this is the same VCA and the same website it was even a year ago then you simply aren't paying attention. The "magic wand" thing is complete and utter crap. Nice red herring for you I guess. The VCA is as strong as it has ever been with more members joining the club and the site every single day. Normally the club gets most of it's growth from new Viper sales (COOL memberships). Guess what? There was no 2007 Viper. Yet in the last five months our membership has increased over 10%. We get e-mails and PM's all the time from people thanking us for the site and how it is run - members and non-members alike. Oh, we stumble a little from time to time, but still we get VERY, very few disgruntled folks such as yourself. And we already know that we will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time. But we are delighted to cover about 99.9% of the people 98.7% of the time.