Obama walking McCain...and you aint seen nuthin yet!

[Ratical2]

Originally Posted by ViperTony

No, not at all. I just think the criteria you listed regarding his associations could fit any party.

I disagree. Obama is surrounded by people who hate America. Open you eyes and ears to what they are saying. He gives audience to those dictators, thugs, terrorist, and hate filled racist preachers that most want to destroy America as we know it. "Help me Change it" he says.

I am more ashamed of American Politics now, then I have been in my entire life. The thought that someone like Obama is the best man that the Dem's can put up for election speaks poorly of the Party and our Country. We have brilliant people here and yet they pick a Hater like Obama to be the "President", how utterly ridiculous. The Donkey Party is making an "Donkey" out of the US.

The only thing that Obama has going for him is Charisma, the same thing that could have been said for Hitler. He preached the same thing, Change, and look how that turned out.

I for one am not pleased with McCain. He is not my idea of a conservative. With that said, he is not associated with people that are actively bashing America and divisively preaching hatred. I do believe that he believes in America and Loves America and what it stands for.

Obama does not. He wants to change it. Quite frankly, he has never said what he wants to change it too,I find that very frightening!

[Solid Red 98]

The United States "as we know it" is not above criticism. The greatest patriot of this great democracy is a citizen that has the courage to speak out about its shortcomings. This country has quite a history as all others do; but we must continue to press forward into unfamiliar territory. This is a diverse and dynamic country. Obama is not just another candidate. He represents a changing America. He is not born of the typical ruling elite. This man has seen both sides of the tracks--for real. I'm sure that does scare a lot of people. Individuals who have lived under the heel of the power structure of any nation will have people in their background that have sharp tongues and deep resentments. In many cases those people motivate and challenge all of us to do better and escape. I have seen the sons and daughters of bigoted families reject such ideologies and work feverishly to break the cycle. The trick is rising above the environment as a part of your life journey. The American promise that people like to "talk" about is the notion that you can rise above your surroundings, excel an be anything you want to be--even the president of the United States. Give the man credit for embodying the American Dream.
So Obama has had people around him that said things, and McCain doesn't? The Average American doesn't? Yeah right...Obama can no more be defined by the jacka#$%'s of his past as you or I. We have known many knuckleheads over the years and God forbid we be defined by them. Obama has not bashed the U.S., nor is he a hater. Quote chapter and verse, I'd be interested in reading that.

The America of the future must share power--period. We are not the top dogs that we used to be. Bush's shock and awe campaign has tilted our hand and shown the world that we no longer have the where with all to project our military power and sustain it. Other nations are underwriting our debt and they will have a say in how their credit money is spent. We need a negotiator at the helm now, not a bully. Obama's candidacy is resusitating the socio-political process in a way that hasn't been seen in a long time. His every move will be by definition controversial. He does have shortcomings;us humans, at least have that in common. Once the true campaign gets into full swing we will all have a better idea about who these candidates really are.

[Bobpantax]

Originally Posted by Solid Red 98

The United States "as we know it" is not above criticism. The greatest patriot of this great democracy is a citizen that has the courage to speak out about its shortcomings. This country has quite a history as all others do; but we must continue to press forward into unfamiliar territory. This is a diverse and dynamic country. Obama is not just another candidate. He represents a changing America. He is not born of the typical ruling elite. ( NEITHER WAS TRUMAN, CARTER, REAGAN, CLINTON AND OTHERS. )This man has seen both sides of the tracks--for real. I'm sure that does scare a lot of people. ( I THINK THAT WHAT SCARES PEOPLE IS HIS OBVIOUS LACK OF EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE AND WHAT APPEARS TO BE A LIFE LONG TENDANCY TO TOLERATE THE INTOLERABLE FROM THOSE AROUND HIM. ) Individuals who have lived under the heel of the power structure ( SORRY. I DO NOT SEE THE LAST FIFTY OR SO YEARS OF U.S. HISTORY AS JUSTIFYING THE USE OF THIS PHRASE. WE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PERFECT BUT WE WERE NOT NAZI GERMANY OR THE SOVIET UNION.) of any nation will have people in their background that have sharp tongues and deep resentments. In many cases those people motivate and challenge all of us to do better and escape. I have seen the sons and daughters of bigoted families reject such ideologies and work feverishly to break the cycle. The trick is rising above the environment as a part of your life journey. ( I AGREE. BUT BIGGER GOVERNMENT AND THE REDUCTION OF THE RIGHT TO SUCCEED OR FAIL REDUCES THE OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED) The American promise that people like to "talk" about is the notion that you can rise above your surroundings, excel and be anything you want to be--even the President of the United States. Give the man credit for embodying the American Dream.
So Obama has had people around him that said things, and McCain doesn't? The Average American doesn't? Yeah right...Obama can no more be defined by the jacka#$%'s of his past as you or I. We have known many knuckleheads over the years and God forbid we be defined by them. Obama has not bashed the U.S., nor is he a hater. Quote chapter and verse, I'd be interested in reading that.

The America of the future must share power--period. We are not the top dogs that we used to be. Bush's shock and awe campaign has tilted our hand and shown the world that we no longer have the where with all to project our military power and sustain it. NOT AT ALL. WE TRIED TO USE LINE WARFARE TO CLEAN UP AN ASYMMETRICAL PROBLEM. THE CURRENT APPROACH IS WORKING AND THE STATS SHOW IT. Other nations are underwriting our debt and they will have a say in how their credit money is spent. REALLY? HOW? HOW ARE THEY GOING TO DO THAT - UNDERMINE THE DEBTOR AND NOT GET PAID? We need a negotiator at the helm now, not a bully. WE NEED A THOUGHTFUL, ASSERTIVE , EXPERIENCED PERSON WHOM OUR ALLIES AND OUR ENEMIES RESPECT. ( I DO NOT CARE IF THEY LIKE US AS LONG AS THEY RESPECT US.) OBAMA IS NOT THAT PERSON. HE'S INEXPERIENCED AND APPEARS TO BE A COMPROMISER AND PRONE TO SUBORDINATE HIMSELF TO THE MORE ASSERTIVE AROUND HIM. IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT HE COULD SAY "NO" AND BACK IT UP WITH FORCE IF HE HAD TO DO SO. WOULDN'T YOU IMMEDIATELY TEST HIM IF YOU WERE AN ENEMY OF THE U.S. - I WOULD. Obama's candidacy is resusitating the socio-political process in a way that hasn't been seen in a long time. I DISAGREE. OBAMA'S TEAM HAS REINVENTED THE PROCESS FOR THE INTERNET AND 24/7 CABLE NEWS AGE. THEY STEAM ROLLED THE CLINTON MACHINE. IT WAS, AND IS, VERY IMPRESSIVE AND, IF HE IS ELECTED, IT WILL BE THE BEST ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN EVER WAGED. THE SUCCESSFUL SALE OF THE EMPEROR'S PRESIDENT. His every move will be by definition controversial. NOT REALLY. HE WILL OWE SO MANY INSIDERS AND OTHER PEOPLE SO MUCH, HE WILL BE BROUGHT DOWN TO EARTH IMMEDIATELY IF HE TRIES TO BE A RADICAL. MEMBERS OF CONGRESS STILL WILL HAVE TO CAMPAIGN AND GET REELECTED. LOBBYISTS AND SPECIAL INTERESTS ARE NOT GOING TO DISAPPEAR UNDER AN OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. TO THINK OTHERWISE IS ABSURD. He does have shortcomings;us humans, at least have that in common. Once the true campaign gets into full swing we will all have a better idea about who these candidates really are.

WE KNOW WHO McCAIN IS. THE REAL QUESTION IS WHO IS OBAMA? CASTRO IN A NICE SUIT OR A MORE ARTICULATE JIMMY CARTER?

[kcobean]

Originally Posted by Solid Red 98

The United States "as we know it" is not above criticism. The greatest patriot of this great democracy is a citizen that has the courage to speak out about its shortcomings. This country has quite a history as all others do; but we must continue to press forward into unfamiliar territory. This is a diverse and dynamic country. Obama is not just another candidate. He represents a changing America. He is not born of the typical ruling elite. This man has seen both sides of the tracks--for real. I'm sure that does scare a lot of people. Individuals who have lived under the heel of the power structure of any nation will have people in their background that have sharp tongues and deep resentments. In many cases those people motivate and challenge all of us to do better and escape. I have seen the sons and daughters of bigoted families reject such ideologies and work feverishly to break the cycle. The trick is rising above the environment as a part of your life journey. The American promise that people like to "talk" about is the notion that you can rise above your surroundings, excel an be anything you want to be--even the president of the United States. Give the man credit for embodying the American Dream.
So Obama has had people around him that said things, and McCain doesn't? The Average American doesn't? Yeah right...Obama can no more be defined by the jacka#$%'s of his past as you or I. We have known many knuckleheads over the years and God forbid we be defined by them. Obama has not bashed the U.S., nor is he a hater. Quote chapter and verse, I'd be interested in reading that.

The America of the future must share power--period. We are not the top dogs that we used to be. Bush's shock and awe campaign has tilted our hand and shown the world that we no longer have the where with all to project our military power and sustain it. Other nations are underwriting our debt and they will have a say in how their credit money is spent. We need a negotiator at the helm now, not a bully. Obama's candidacy is resusitating the socio-political process in a way that hasn't been seen in a long time. His every move will be by definition controversial. He does have shortcomings;us humans, at least have that in common. Once the true campaign gets into full swing we will all have a better idea about who these candidates really are.

Hello.... EVERY candidate thus far has been about "changing the country"...big surprise. But Obama, with NO experience, NO sign of the fierce patriotism I expect in a President, and a demonstrated willingness to surround himself with the wrong kind of people and negotiate with terrorists, promises change by turning government into a vine that will intertwine itself in every facet of our daily lives while giving away the country to the world out of guilt. No thanks...

As he himself said:

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK. That's not leadership. That's not going to happen."

"We need to steer clear of this poverty of ambition, where people want to drive fancy cars and wear nice clothes and live in nice apartments but don't want to work hard to accomplish these things. Everyone should try to realize their full potential."

"What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice. He's much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible and that I'm not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that's involved in national politics."

And his whacky wife who has as many stupid quotes floating around out there as Bush does...

"Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."

So, we should be prepared to give up our Vipers, redistribute our wealth to those who haven't worked as hard as we have, and subscribe to the mandatory "Obama Channel" where he will keep us involved and aware. We will live in a fashion that satisfies other countries' expectations of us (He wants to give BILLIONS to the UN and allow them to redistribute it as they see fit to other countries after all.) He will decide how much profit is enough, how much is too much, and what to do with the excess.

No Thanks. I think his idea of "Hope and Change" is disgusting.

[NukedGTS]

Originally Posted by Solid Red 98

The United States "as we know it" is not above criticism. The greatest patriot of this great democracy is a citizen that has the courage to speak out about its shortcomings. This country has quite a history as all others do; but we must continue to press forward into unfamiliar territory. This is a diverse and dynamic country. Obama is not just another candidate. He represents a changing America. He is not born of the typical ruling elite. This man has seen both sides of the tracks--for real. I'm sure that does scare a lot of people. Individuals who have lived under the heel of the power structure of any nation will have people in their background that have sharp tongues and deep resentments. In many cases those people motivate and challenge all of us to do better and escape. I have seen the sons and daughters of bigoted families reject such ideologies and work feverishly to break the cycle. The trick is rising above the environment as a part of your life journey. The American promise that people like to "talk" about is the notion that you can rise above your surroundings, excel an be anything you want to be--even the president of the United States. Give the man credit for embodying the American Dream.
So Obama has had people around him that said things, and McCain doesn't? The Average American doesn't? Yeah right...Obama can no more be defined by the jacka#$%'s of his past as you or I. We have known many knuckleheads over the years and God forbid we be defined by them. Obama has not bashed the U.S., nor is he a hater. Quote chapter and verse, I'd be interested in reading that.

The America of the future must share power--period. We are not the top dogs that we used to be. Bush's shock and awe campaign has tilted our hand and shown the world that we no longer have the where with all to project our military power and sustain it. Other nations are underwriting our debt and they will have a say in how their credit money is spent. We need a negotiator at the helm now, not a bully. Obama's candidacy is resusitating the socio-political process in a way that hasn't been seen in a long time. His every move will be by definition controversial. He does have shortcomings;us humans, at least have that in common. Once the true campaign gets into full swing we will all have a better idea about who these candidates really are.

You have made the ultimate sin in determining your views regarding a candidate. You have already made up your mind . . . . You have already determined Mr. O'Bama's innocence and intentions. Don't feel too bad, though, half the country is guilty of the same crime. Open your ears, eyes and mind and you will be shocked what is able to filter through.

[GR8_ASP]

Originally Posted by black mamba1

- John McCain voted with Bush 95% of the time. Interpretation? McCain is a clone of Bush. Like it or not, that is how everyone that is not die hard GOP sees McCain.

Well, here you go spouting the same unsupportable nonsense. The facts, as I demonstrated to you before do not indicate that McCain follows the Republican party voting line 95%, let alone Bush's, for which there is no known preference to use for comparison.

Just look through the records. They are all there for you to peruse.
John McCain | Congress votes database | washingtonpost.com

John McCain has voted with a majority of his Republican colleagues 88.3% of the time during the current Congress. This percentage does not include votes in which McCain did not vote.

Barack Obama | Congress votes database | washingtonpost.com
Barack Obama has voted with a majority of his Democratic colleagues 96.5% of the time during the current Congress. This percentage does not include votes in which Obama did not vote.

Now who follows his party blindly? Facts, facts, facts.

Note that in his freshman term Obama has the most liberal voting record of any senator. Any senator. Wow!

[ViperTony]

Originally Posted by GR8_ASP

John McCain has voted with a majority of his Republican colleagues 88.3% of the time during the current Congress. This percentage does not include votes in which McCain did not vote.

Yes...88.3% is less than 95%. That 6.7% difference doesn't make McCain a Bush clone but rather a Bush wanna-be.

[Photog1]

Originally Posted by Bobpantax

Put the age and party affiliation issues aside for a moment. Assume that you are the Chairperson of the Board of Directors of the largest public company on the planet. You are looking for a new CEO. One candidate has extensive experience working with companies of similar size and a decent track record. The other has no experience working with companies of similar size and little or no track record. Who would you hire knowing that the shareholders can sue you for breach of your fiduciary duty as a director? A wish and a prayer? Or tried and true? A President is not a King but he or she is arguably the most powerful person in the world and needs experienced based wisdom to run the ship of state. Carter proved that people like Obama make lousy Presidents. I would much rather have a Bush III than a Carter II.

This is very well said.

[Ratical2]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobpantax
Put the age and party affiliation issues aside for a moment. Assume that you are the Chairperson of the Board of Directors of the largest public company on the planet. You are looking for a new CEO. One candidate has extensive experience working with companies of similar size and a decent track record. The other has no experience working with companies of similar size and little or no track record. Who would you hire knowing that the shareholders can sue you for breach of your fiduciary duty as a director? A wish and a prayer? Or tried and true? A President is not a King but he or she is arguably the most powerful person in the world and needs experienced based wisdom to run the ship of state. Carter proved that people like Obama make lousy Presidents. I would much rather have a Bush III than a Carter II.


This is very well said.

I like that analogy, Let's break it down to Viper Speak:

You are on a road trip, and as rare as it may seem the Viper's starts to run badly. Up ahead you see a dealership in the middle of nowhere. You have no choice but to stop. The car has to be looked at. So you get inside to find two choices, a guy who has never touched a Viper, but has been working on other cars for 30 years, and then you have the the lot attendant, a kid who has been washing cars and maybe an oil change or two for last year and half...who are you going let service your Viper???

[Photog1]

Originally Posted by Ratical2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobpantax
Put the age and party affiliation issues aside for a moment. Assume that you are the Chairperson of the Board of Directors of the largest public company on the planet. You are looking for a new CEO. One candidate has extensive experience working with companies of similar size and a decent track record. The other has no experience working with companies of similar size and little or no track record. Who would you hire knowing that the shareholders can sue you for breach of your fiduciary duty as a director? A wish and a prayer? Or tried and true? A President is not a King but he or she is arguably the most powerful person in the world and needs experienced based wisdom to run the ship of state. Carter proved that people like Obama make lousy Presidents. I would much rather have a Bush III than a Carter II.


This is very well said.

I like that analogy, Let's break it down to Viper Speak:

You are on a road trip, and as rare as it may seem the Viper's starts to run badly. Up ahead you see a dealership in the middle of nowhere. You have no choice but to stop. The car has to be looked at. So you get inside to find two choices, a guy who has never touched a Viper, but has been working on other cars for 30 years, and then you have the the lot attendant, a kid who has been washing cars and maybe an oil change or two for last year and half...who are you going let service your Viper???

I like this one too!!

[ViperTony]

Speaking of crooks, thieves it appears the democrats are not immune to greed:
Report: Dodd received special mortgages

I wonder if Obama got the same deal?

[black mamba1]

Originally Posted by ViperTony

Speaking of crooks, thieves it appears the democrats are not immune to greed:
Report: Dodd received special mortgages

I wonder if Obama got the same deal?

You could wonder many things about Obama, why wonder this? Just for that, I am gonna kick your ass all the way to Paddock Motor Sports!

You could have just as easily focused on numerous GOP articles....hmmm

[black mamba1]

duplicate to be deleted

[black mamba1]

The GOP is like the confederacy of old...the more you make your arguments..the more you turn Obama into and Anteaus-like figure. The more you think conservative values (whatever the hell that means) is worth defending, the more you piss people off.

The more you slam Obama, the stronger he gets. Just like Anteaus. Why? B/c your attacks are unfounded, not based on substance, but on conjecture and personal attacks. Most GOP guys are smart, actually MOST of the guys in here I would bet are a helluva lot smarter than most Americans. So, having said that, your arguments against Obama are flawed on practically every point. MOst of your concern is that he has little experience, and will get us in trouble on the world scene. But the fact of the matter is that he has more foreign policy experience than our current GOP idiot and that of Reagan had when they took office.

Stop pretending. Its time to grow up.

The confederate flag is not a flag of pride, but of a flag of shame. Conservatives are silent on that point.
Affirmative Action is needed in places like West Virginia and Kentucky where they admitted race is an important factor in their decisions. Corporate Greed is real, not imagined...Racial profiling is real. Time to stop pretending just b/c you have it good...time to grow up and face the rest of the world. Time to be men. Time to be fair. If you cannot be fair, and need to "conserve a rigged status quo"... I understand.

But you must understand that your days are over. Not just in the American scene, but world wide.

It would behoove the GOP go study Greek mythology and understand Beowolf and Anteaus. History has always repeated itself. Or you can ignore those philosophical masterpieces and continue with the yadda yadda yadda...makes me no difference. Makes it easier to defeat you in November.

[black mamba1]

Originally Posted by Bobpantax

Hi again Keith. As you know, I did not write that Obama's wife's behavior would, by itself, be a significant factor. What I did write was that Obama's obvious inability to influence that behavior in a favorable way reflects poorly on him. It goes to character, strength and judgment. Just like Hillary's failure to throw Bill out of the house and divorce him after she was elected to the Senate ( thereby getting her consolation prize ) probably cost her many votes in the primaries. As for wealthy people, as you well know, Obama is also surrounded by plenty of those. And each and every one of them will want something. With respect to Iraq, I have never been one to be convinced soley by the number of people agreeing on something. There was a time when the majority thought slavery was OK. There was a time in germany when the majority thought concentration camps were OK. There have been many such times in many countries. My moral compass is not based on a vote of the majority. We chose to invade Iraq. We turned relative order into chaos. However awful Sadam's regime was, the country was relatively stable under his leadership. We need to do the right thing even if it hurts our collective pocketbooks. The use of power without assuming responsibility for its consequences is irresponsible and immoral. What Bush did is in the past. We will be defined by what Obama or McCain does after one of them takes office. Carter lacked proper assertiveness and severely diminished our world wide reputation and credibility. Obama, so far, seems cut from the same cloth.

Obama is no different than Kennedy, Carter and Clinton before him. The same "I promise you change and a better tomorrow" routine we have heard many times before. Except this time it's being delievered by someone who has even less experience. It was BS in the 60's, BS in the 70's, BS in the 90's and it's still BS now. The fact that people do not see it for what it is defines who they are: ignorant and naive. And before you say it, some of the most intelligent people I know are ignorant and naive. Speed of thought and street smarts are not always present in the same brain.

As for McCain, he is by no means perfect but he has the experience and connections to efficiently manage our vast federal government. Obama does not - and you know it.

Wow.

Beside every strong man is a strong woman. I dont interpret Obamas wife strength as a weakness. Only weak men need a weak wife. Its not about Obama controlling his wife, its Obama being strong enough to let his wife be his wife, and not being afraid of her strength. Its pretentious to do otherwise. Obama's wife only reflects poorly on him with insecure men.

As far as slavery, there was never a time when the majority thought it was ok. It depends on who you are counting. The majority of white European men? I dont think the millions of slaves thought it was ok.

"We invaded Iraq"? No we didnt. Bush invaded Iraq. WE have had intense political debate on the matter ever since. Just like WE didnt approve slavery. Only certain states did..and WE didnt secede, only certain states did. WE didnt invade Iraq...Bush and his majority did. But this is not a dictatorship...the rest of us will get us out of Iraq. As far as world image diminished by Carter? Our world image is at an historical low for lying about Iraq, for torturing captives, and for failed Bush policies. Intent is nice, but the world judges you on results. And Bushes results...suck.

GW Bush and his family has experience and connections. Nixon had experience and connections. And look at the state of our nation now. That experience got us into more trouble than we ever imagined.

HOW ELSE COULD A BLACK NEW-COMER WITH A MUSLIM MIDDLE NAME BE OUR NUMBER ONE CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT? Its b/c the GOP sucks on an all-time high..they have totally screwed up our economy and our country..and we cannot take any more of it. Yoiu guys are done for this cycle...done.

The GOP has turned this nation into ****.