The victims of Iowa flooding vs. Hurricane Katrina

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Someone sent me this and its 100% true. I feel really bad for the people in Iowa and wish them the best. Those 2 feelings never crossed my mind when Katrina hit and those "people" used it as an excuse to go on a crime wave of robbery, murder, rape, etc.



Just a personal observation...as I watched the news coverage of the massive flooding in the Midwest with over 100 blocks of the city of Cedar Rapids, Iowa under water, levees breaking, and the attention now turned downstream for when this massive amount of water hits the Mississippi, what amazed me is not what we see, but what we don't see...

1. We don't see looting.
2. We don't see street violence.
3. We don't see people sitting on their rooftops waiting for the government to come and save them.
4. We don't see people waiting on the government to do anything.
5. We don't see Hollywood organizing benefits to raise money for people to rebuild.
6. We don't see people blaming President Bush.
7. We don't see people ignoring evacuation orders.
8. We don't see people blaming a government conspiracy to blow up the levees as the reason some have not held.
9. We don't see the US Senators or the Governor of Iowa crying on TV.
10. We don't see the Mayors of any of these cities complaining about the lack of state or federal response.
11. We don't see or hear reports of the police going around confiscating personal firearms so only the criminal will be armed.
12. We don't see gangs of people going around and randomly shooting at the rescue workers.
13. You don't see some leaders in this country blaming the bad behavior of the Iowa flood victims on "society" (of course there is no wide spread reports of lawlessness to require excuses).

[NukedGTS]

Originally Posted by V10SpeedLuvr

Someone sent me this and its 100% true. I feel really bad for the people in Iowa and wish them the best. Those 2 feelings never crossed my mind when Katrina hit and those "people" used it as an excuse to go on a crime wave of robbery, murder, rape, etc.



Just a personal observation...as I watched the news coverage of the massive flooding in the Midwest with over 100 blocks of the city of Cedar Rapids, Iowa under water, levees breaking, and the attention now turned downstream for when this massive amount of water hits the Mississippi, what amazed me is not what we see, but what we don't see...

1. We don't see looting.
2. We don't see street violence.
3. We don't see people sitting on their rooftops waiting for the government to come and save them.
4. We don't see people waiting on the government to do anything.
5. We don't see Hollywood organizing benefits to raise money for people to rebuild.
6. We don't see people blaming President Bush.
7. We don't see people ignoring evacuation orders.
8. We don't see people blaming a government conspiracy to blow up the levees as the reason some have not held.
9. We don't see the US Senators or the Governor of Iowa crying on TV.
10. We don't see the Mayors of any of these cities complaining about the lack of state or federal response.
11. We don't see or hear reports of the police going around confiscating personal firearms so only the criminal will be armed.
12. We don't see gangs of people going around and randomly shooting at the rescue workers.
13. You don't see some leaders in this country blaming the bad behavior of the Iowa flood victims on "society" (of course there is no wide spread reports of lawlessness to require excuses).

Excellent point. I made a similar point a couple days ago on a post regarding how well the current flood vicitms are handling the situation and dedicating themselves to rebuilding. I wonder why that is . . . . what are some of the major differences between these flood victims and the flood victims from say, I don't know, New Orleans? This is an obvious social lesson staring right in the face of those willing to look. But wait, not so fast, here comes BM1 and the good DR with a hundred reasons why we're missing the obvious. . . . take it away BM1 and DR . . . . .

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Originally Posted by NukedGTS

Excellent point. I made a similar point a couple days ago on a post regarding how well the current flood vicitms are handling the situation and dedicating themselves to rebuilding. I wonder why that is . . . . what are some of the major differences between these flood victims and the flood victims from say, I don't know, New Orleans? This is an obvious social lesson staring right in the face of those willing to look. But wait, not so fast, here comes BM1 and the good DR with a hundred reasons why we're missing the obvious. . . . take it away BM1 and DR . . . . .

I guess I missed that previous post about the midwest floods. Never saw it I had thought the same thing to myself about how well IA is handling their flood compared to Louisiana. Then I got this email that put it in words so well, I couldn't help but post it.

[VENUM INJECTION]

I must say I do feel for the victims of Iowa. I sympathize with there loss as well. I also want to say as a resident of the forgotten Mississippi Gulf coast which sustained more damage over a more widespread area than New Orleans, you did not see any of that activity from us as well. There was a different attitude of lets just get things done because no one will do it for us. I feel like this was and is the better course to take. What I will say is because those people from Louisiana complained more as the sqeeky wheel often does, they recieved much more national attention. As a Mississippi coast resident who completely lost his home down to the slab,and has been unable to return home due to lack of need for my profession in that area, I commend the can do attitude of the people of Iowa. I will say that because of that attitude the MS Gulf Coast has recovered remarkably. But It does bother me how we are overshadowed by New Orleans. I am sorry to briefly take away from the plite of the Iowan's who suffered, but I am always a little upset of being left out of the damage as a coast resident as well as left out of being commended as a group that did what we had to do to just get the job done without all the hipe and violence. God bless those who are suffering from the flood and I wish them all the best in their recovery.

[Bobpantax]

A few observations:

1. The average per capita income and education of those affected by the Midwest floods may be much higher than those who were affected by Katrina in New Orleans.

2. New Orleans was not the worst victim of Katrina. Some of the coastal and near coastal towns of Mississippi and Alabama were completely destroyed. We did not hear as much about them and have not heard as much about them since the initial media frenzy lost its momentum because, for the most part, the people in these other areas hit by Katrina have assumed more responsibilty for their problems.

3. Midwesterners had a terrible flood in 1993. They are, and were, far better educated with respect to the probability of flooding and the damage it can cause. They also, for the most part had/have much more efficient and better funded state and local governments than New Orleans, et.al. The Mayor of New Orleans was, and is, an incompetent with a gift to BS his way out of his own failures. Both Democrats and Republicans indulged him and the scatter brained, petty former governor night after night on the national media. It was outrageous.

4. New Orleans has been one of the crime capitals of the U.S. for many years and Louisiana, prior to the election of its new Republican Governor, was probably the most corrupt state.

5. It probably would have made more sense to take part of the approximately 110 billion dollars set aside by Congress to help the victims of Katrina and use it to pay the remaining people in New Orleans without homes to move away to safer ground. What was left of their homes could have then been leveled and a new Federal Park established. As Chuck implied in an earlier post in another thread, building below sea level in a hurricane zone was, and is, a foolish venture.

[VENUM INJECTION]

A very accurate observation Bobpantax. I could not agree with you more.

[xlrashn]

[quote=Bobpantax;2550140]A few observations:



3. Midwesterners had a worse flood in 1993. They are, and were, far better educated with respect to the probability of flooding and the damage it can cause.

Actually I'd like to clarify the above statement. The floods of 1993 were alot LESS than the current one. The 2008 flood was over 10 feet HIGHER than 1993. As a resident of the Cedar Rapids metro area, I can tell you that this is the worst ever.

[xlrashn]

This is a copy of my post from another thread with some more of the facts. Anyway, thanks for thinking of us here in the midwest.

Thanks for the sentiment. I live in the Cedar Rapids metro area. My home and business are in a suburb that thankfully did not get flooded. (very wet, but not flooded) My wifes office however had 9 feet of water on the first floor. It is very devastating to see the downtown area. Over 1300... yes I said 1300 city blocks were under up to 15 feet of water. The devastation has been labled "Katrina" level by those disaster inspectors that are now here. Just as a reference, the flood stage of the river is 12 feet... last Friday it crested at 31.5 feet, nearly 20 feet OVER flood stage. The water has receded now and the massive clean up can begin, however it will be a very long time before things get back to where they were. The inspectors are guessing that 50-75% of the affected homes will have to be bulldozed. At the height of the flood approx. 24,000 people were evacuated. That's ALOT of people. Again, thanks for the thoughts, we need them.

[ViperJon]

Somehow this will be George Bush's fault.

[Bobpantax]

Correction made. Thank you. Our prayers are with you out there.

[Solid Red 98]

The cadence of circumstances surrounding these disasters are very different. I do, however, find it disturbing that in the wake of large scale loss and suffering in our homeland, that some would find an opportunity to sow the seeds of social division during a time when we, as citizens, should be pulling together to help our fellow Americans. The "personal observation list" posted earlier clearly illustrates that the lens through which you view the world through can truly color your perceptions--certainly shows the importance of having a jury of your peers.
Criticizing of the victims of tragedy in this context is a pretty sad commentary on the state of mind nurtured by some in our country.

A more thoughtful comparison list, if that was the intent, would involve the effects of rising water on
populations of similar size exposed to repeated flooding events in comparable regions, comparing apples to apples, so to speak. One would not compare the social response of the Indonesian tsunami with flooding in Bangladesh; both regions were subjected to flooding, but involving different causative mechanisms.

Mid West flooding along the Mississippi and its tributaries reveals underlying problems with an infrastructure and planning process that can be found across throughout the world. Whether it is living on the foot of a volcano, a flood plain, in fire prone scrub land, or along major earthquake faults, humans play a dangerous game with nature. Current problems in the Mid West and past/current problems in Orleans involve the same river and are the result of the same types of land use. Wall in a mighty river and assume that you "know" what the drainage is capable of and build right up to it. Considering written weather records for the region only go back a couple hundred years--a wink in geologic time--we are just getting a glimpse of how wet or dry things can get.

The Katrina debacle is a well documented failure across the board. It was a first in terms of its scale. Katrina is a glaring example of one of the many socio-environmental disasters waiting to happen. Sometimes the problem is just too large and chaos reins. In the East Bay (SF Bay Area) a major earthquake fault runs practically its entire length. A major event in the area will eventually severely devastate the area and it will be pandemonium--probably worse than Katrina. I would hope that after such an event people don't start comparing affected populations--they should help, pray, hope, and learn.

"here comes BM1 and the good DR with a hundred reasons why we're missing the obvious. . . ."
Please enlighten us: What exactly is "the obvious" the way you see it?

[xlrashn]

Solid Red 98,

I agree that humanity plays a dangerous game of russian roulette with mother nature. However, in speaking of the flood here in Cedar Rapids, that cannot be applied entirely. You see, there was/is a 100 year/500year flood map showing areas that would be flooded if the water got to even the worst possible depth (the 500 year mark). There are homes BEYOND that area that were affected during the flood. So as a blanket statement in general, I agree with you, yet I do feel that on a case by case basis, it does not always apply.

[NukedGTS]

Originally Posted by Solid Red 98

The cadence of circumstances surrounding these disasters are very different. I do, however, find it disturbing that in the wake of large scale loss and suffering in our homeland, that some would find an opportunity to sow the seeds of social division during a time when we, as citizens, should be pulling together to help our fellow Americans. The "personal observation list" posted earlier clearly illustrates that the lens through which you view the world through can truly color your perceptions--certainly shows the importance of having a jury of your peers.
Criticizing of the victims of tragedy in this context is a pretty sad commentary on the state of mind nurtured by some in our country.

A more thoughtful comparison list, if that was the intent, would involve the effects of rising water on
populations of similar size exposed to repeated flooding events in comparable regions, comparing apples to apples, so to speak. One would not compare the social response of the Indonesian tsunami with flooding in Bangladesh; both regions were subjected to flooding, but involving different causative mechanisms.

Mid West flooding along the Mississippi and its tributaries reveals underlying problems with an infrastructure and planning process that can be found across throughout the world. Whether it is living on the foot of a volcano, a flood plain, in fire prone scrub land, or along major earthquake faults, humans play a dangerous game with nature. Current problems in the Mid West and past/current problems in Orleans involve the same river and are the result of the same types of land use. Wall in a mighty river and assume that you "know" what the drainage is capable of and build right up to it. Considering written weather records for the region only go back a couple hundred years--a wink in geologic time--we are just getting a glimpse of how wet or dry things can get.

The Katrina debacle is a well documented failure across the board. It was a first in terms of its scale. Katrina is a glaring example of one of the many socio-environmental disasters waiting to happen. Sometimes the problem is just too large and chaos reins. In the East Bay (SF Bay Area) a major earthquake fault runs practically its entire length. A major event in the area will eventually severely devastate the area and it will be pandemonium--probably worse than Katrina. I would hope that after such an event people don't start comparing affected populations--they should help, pray, hope, and learn.

"here comes BM1 and the good DR with a hundred reasons why we're missing the obvious. . . ."
Please enlighten us: What exactly is "the obvious" the way you see it?

Before I take the time to 'enlighten' you with the advanced points, you must pass the 101 course first. To do that, please answer this: How much actual time have you spent in New Orleans. I'm talking actual, physical time, not theoretical time through some blog. My question is a simple one, so please leave the "socio-environmental disaster" comments at the door. Based on your answer, we may or may not be able to go to the "obvious" issues.

[Bobpantax]

Hi Solid Red 98. The "Personal Observations" list set forth in Chad's opening post may have had a political agenda but what part of the list, in your opinion, is not factually accurate as of this date? And, regardless of the validity of your apples to apples point, isn't it treating people as unequal and as second class citizens if we do not have the same expectations regarding public responsibility and civility for everyone lawfully in the United States? Are you saying the people of New Orleans were in some way inferior and incapable of acting properly? Because if you are, I refuse to buy into that type of prejudice. I think that there was a terrible failure of local leadership by leaders who were very much aware of the economic and educational levels of the citizens of New Orleans and failed to do, on a timely basis, what needed to be done before, during and after the storm hit. Fortunately for Louisiana, it now has a Governor who appears to be a shining star in American politics.

[Paul Hawker]

During difficult times the character of a populus shows clearly.

Make your own observations.

No need for personal attacks here.