Roller Rockers? Worth the upgrade or not?

[Shandon]

Does anyone know if changing out to 1.7 T/D Roller Rockers or another brand is worth the upgrade? RSI claims around a 15HP incease from them. My engine is pprimarily stock.

Thanks for your input

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

They were the hot ticket on the gen 2's. But I dont know where they stand on the gen 3s. Do the gen 2's version work on the gen 3's? Did the gen 3's get an extended ratio over the gen 2's? Or were both 1.6 or 1.7 to 1 on gen 2 and 3 ?

I've been thinking about doing some bolt on's. Can never have too much HP in my book This might get on the list if its worth it.

Jon

[AFL in NJ]

Hey Jon,

I just saw a car outta Chicago that sounds a lot like your old ride....coud it be?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...9613&rd=1&rd=1

Regards,
Aaron

[Nader]

I am no expert but I think the genIII comes with 1.7s so no real benefit there. As for rollers, I am not sure what we have. I am sure someone will chime in on this one.

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Originally Posted by AFL in NJ

Hey Jon,

I just saw a car outta Chicago that sounds a lot like your old ride....coud it be?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...9613&rd=1&rd=1

Regards,
Aaron

Originally Posted by Nader

I am no expert but I think the genIII comes with 1.7s so no real benefit there. As for rollers, I am not sure what we have. I am sure someone will chime in on this one.

See thats what I remember hearing about when the 03's came out, is that the old gen 2s were 1.6 and the gen 3's were 1.7s The only advantage to getting rollers now, is that they are rollers, you wont get any additional lift, but you will save some of the power loss from friction, things roll a lot better then they do rubbing. I dont think the gen 3s are roller, just 1.7s

Be nice if someone came up with a 1.8 and roller for the gen 3's if it would help.

Jon

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Originally Posted by AFL in NJ

Hey Jon,

I just saw a car outta Chicago that sounds a lot like your old ride....coud it be?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...9613&rd=1&rd=1

Regards,
Aaron

That thing looks like a total piece of ****, most CERTAINLY is not my car. Its been wrecked in the front. Tell tail signs, and some various straight obvious ones.

No most certainly IS NOT my car. I'd stay miles away from that thing.

Dont waste your time driving to look at it, it hardly qualifies as "excellent" as that advert is calling it.

BTW, mine never made it to Chicago, mine got sold from NC and went directly to CA. Sold before I made my move to Chicago.

Good luck,

Jon

[dun4791]

Originally Posted by 2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

That thing looks like a total piece of ****, most CERTAINLY is not my car. Its been wrecked in the front. Tell tail signs, and some various straight obvious ones.

No most certainly IS NOT my car. I'd stay miles away from that thing.

Dont waste your time driving to look at it, it hardly qualifies as "excellent" as that advert is calling it.

BTW, mine never made it to Chicago, mine got sold from NC and went directly to CA. Sold before I made my move to Chicago.

Good luck,

Jon

It sure doesnt look like it should be called excellent to me.

What are the telltale signs of a front end collision on it?

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

ok ok.. I'll help figure out the obvious.. but I wont directly tell you, look at these two photos, it only took 1 photo to tell me it had had front end issues:



Then look at this one, do some COMPARISON:


And 1 final hit.. like real estate its all about LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. Both sides are bad !!

[obaa996]

I'm sorry, but I still can't see what you are trying to point out? Are you referring to the ACR stickers?

[Mccarlin]

Yes both ACR stickers are in the wrong location from the factory. They are usually centered under the VIPER logo.

[Vipermann]

Gen 3s come with a 1.73 stock ratio, so 1.7s would be wrong (that was the correct ratio for Gen 2s). I did T&D 1.75s and got a nice/modest gain of about 12HP ...

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Sorry to thread jack, I just noticed we were doing that. I'll end with this, the ACR stickers are indeed off, but maybe not as easily noticable is that the Viper GTS ones are also.

Those scratches it received in the other photos, also indicate it received some type of lancing blow too. There is no mention of paint work, the stickers are quite pricey in the magnitude of about 100 a pop, so you dont go buying them just to relocate them. And you sure dont put them in the wrong place unless... you went with a paint shop who didnt know what the hell they were doing.

Pass on the car, and lets focus on the T&Ds. Much more relivant

Thanks and Sorry,

Jon

[Red Snake]

Originally Posted by 2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

They were the hot ticket on the gen 2's. But I dont know where they stand on the gen 3s. Do the gen 2's version work on the gen 3's? Did the gen 3's get an extended ratio over the gen 2's? Or were both 1.6 or 1.7 to 1 on gen 2 and 3 ?

I've been thinking about doing some bolt on's. Can never have too much HP in my book This might get on the list if its worth it.

Jon

T&D makes a Gen III rocker set that sells for considerably more than the Gen IIs (at about $1300). However, the Gen II T&Ds will work on the Gen III motor if the base plates are slightly modified. Just need a knowledgeable Viper tech to do it.

PBJ installed a set of Gen II T&Ds on my motor when he did my heads/cam.

[Kai SRT10]

Unless you were upgrading heads and valvetrain, I think that rockers would be a waste of money.

[Viper X]

The OE rockers in a Gen III are pretty good compared with the Gen II's. I do think that if you were to track the car and run higher rpms, say from 3000 to 5000 around a track regularly, you would achieve some benefit.

Not sure on the hp claims.

Now, if you could get 1.8 ratio roller rockers, headers and exhaust, Stryker heads, ported intake manifold and ported throttle body with a good tune, you could make some very good N/A power. I'd guess 600 hp or more.

Dan

[Viper Specialty]

OE rockers on Gen-3's are not too bad. You will gain some power from aftermarket 1.7's, but it should be kept in mind this gain will only be from stability. OE Gen-3 rockers are 1.73, so you actually lose a little lift.

The hot ticket on Gen-3's is a set of Jesel 1.75's or 1.8's... but they 'aint cheap.

[Shandon]

Any idea what a set of 1.75 Jesel run and can I get those through you at VSP?

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Group buy ?

[Viper Specialty]

Wow... looking back through old posts, I completely missed this.

Jesels have since been added to our website. Note that Jesel requires a minimum advertised price, read the listing carefully! We do not charge extra for different configurations if you want them, unless there is additional costs to us.

[Bolt]

All this talk about how much these rolller rockers help the Gen II's makes me want to upgrade. What is good roller rocker and where can I get them for my genII.

[Viper Specialty]

Originally Posted by Bolt

All this talk about how much these rolller rockers help the Gen II's makes me want to upgrade. What is good roller rocker and where can I get them for my genII.

Good: Harland Sharp, New Style Crower
Better: T&D/Mopar
Best: Jesel

We can get you any of these, but strongly suggest Jesel, especially with the price increases seen on T&D's early this year, closing the price gap a good amount.

[Nader]

Dan what do you think performance wise 1.75 or 1.8s will yeild on a genIII?

[Viper Specialty]

Originally Posted by Nader

Dan what do you think performance wise 1.75 or 1.8s will yeild on a genIII?

15-20 HP is typical. The biggest benefit (especially on Gen-2) is the smoothing out of the power band from 5000-6000 RPM where the OEM valvetrain starts giving out a little bit.

[evomind]

is there a link so i can see what were talking abt here, like price, etc??

[Viper Specialty]

Viper Specialty Performance

Engine>Heads and Valvetrain>Valvetrain

I will be adding the pushrod options first chance I get.

[Twister]

With KN's and roller rockers my 2003 dynoed 459 rwhp..Since most SRT10's dyno around 440-445 rwhp Id say the roller rockers are worth 7-10 rwhp on the gen3's...

My 99 rt10 picked up 12 rwhp after installing roller rockers. So defiently a bigger gain on the gen 2's..But still probally worth it if your trying to hit 500 rwhp PLUS with just bolt ons on your gen 3 like I am.

[Vipermann]

I did 1.75 T&Ds -- no other mods -- no problems ... but

1.8s? you better consider the 'speed' (not just the absolute lift) at which that valve is being shoved down ... might warrant an upgrade to the springs to keep things under control ... but then that adds pressure to the stock lifters, but to upgrade those, the heads need to come off ... not such a cheap upgrade anymore

[Viper Specialty]

Originally Posted by Vipermann

I did 1.75 T&Ds -- no other mods -- no problems ... but

1.8s? you better consider the 'speed' (not just the absolute lift) at which that valve is being shoved down ... might warrant an upgrade to the springs to keep things under control ... but then that adds pressure to the stock lifters, but to upgrade those, the heads need to come off ... not such a cheap upgrade anymore

This is true to a point. Personally, I would recommend upgrading springs on just about any Viper out there- the OEM lifters can handle a nice increase without much of an issue. However, even going to 1.75 or 1.8 on a Gen-3, you have to consider how much lighter the new valvetrain is compared to OEM, and at these speeds, the inertia of the valvetrain and its relationship to spring pressure are what matters.

The OEM rockers are indeed roller fulcrum and 1.73 ratio, but they are also steel and quite heavy. Couple this with flimsy pushrods and "OK" at best springs, and you have your answer to the OEM upper RPM issues. Using nice pushrods and a light valvetrain goes a long way to making it stable, even if the lift is changed slightly (we are only taking about .016" lift here... that is peanuts at best)

Generally, I DO stick with 1.7 (G-2) and 1.75 (G-3) for stock block/stock spring or FI engines for the slight increase in safety margin against mis-shifting and engine damage. If a customer wants to try to get every last horspower out of his car before actually tearing the engine down, 1.75/1.8's can help get it done, though yes, springs would be recomended- as they always are.

[Disturbed]

GenII rockers are JUNK. 1.6:1, I don't know about GenIII's

I went with T&D's on my GTS and I'm very happy with them.

[YELLOH]

So let say you change to the roller rockers, change vavle stems and springs. Is there a bennifit have stock heads ported or polished. And if you do this, I would think you would need to get a computer to adjust to these mods. Now wether you have the heads ported or not, will this create any problems on the pistons which I would think would be the weakest link at this point. I'm very much interested in this mod.