"Good Viperations" by Mark Jorgenson !!

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Well, after a long and tough process of installing the Woodhouse engine mounts, I can attest to their night and day feel vs the stock ones. One of the other members on here said that Changing over to the new engine and tranny mounts offered by woodhouse was his #1 mod. I can’t concure with that, as I love my Paxton SC that woodhouse put on the car. However, had I known about the hugely rewarding experiences from just changing the mounts on the car, I would have had them do that too.

So my feedback is as follows:

• You certainly DO feel increased Vibrations (This is supposed to dissipate within 500 miles). But its not annoying, just feels more like what an “ACR” SRT-10 would probably feel like.
• The “tightness” that it gives the whole car is remarkable. I simply can not believe that just changing the engine and tranny mounts make the car feel like its got an all new suspension underneath it. I can only imagine that the sloshing around of the engine and tranny under “express” maneuvers is somehow throwing off the car slightly (unsetttling it) when driving with stock mounts, with the new mounts, it just feels like everything is dead on tight, and nimble, and nothing is getting thrown around, just feels like the car is confident and controlled. (Again, this shocks the crap outta me, as I would NEVER have expected engine and tranny mounts to give a better “handling” feeling.
• The next thing, as reported again by others, is the immediate response you now feel when apply power. Seems as if the energy being displaced by the engine is now going directly to the drive lines wheels, instead of “raising” the engine and tranny, as they stay put, the power has no where else to go except out to the back. J
• The install is a complete bitch. Now I am not say that everyone cant do it, but its going to take time and patients and right tools. I did it in 2 sittings. But after all is said and done, the work was definitely worthy of its rewards. But if I had to do it all over again, I would have let woodhouse install them for me, while they had my car.

Needless to say, I’m quite happy with this modification, and I truly recommend it to everyone, even stock vipers, but I would guard against you doing it yourself unless you have a car lift, tranny jack, and patients.

Great Mod, and thank you Mark Jorgenson for recommending them to the Club and helping me get a set (at a good price too !!).

Jon

[Hiss]

Thanks for info

This will be a winter project for me

[KenH]

Good info. Did you notice any improvement on the shifting as some have noted?

What's the ballpark price on the parts. I see $250 on the engine mounts on their website, but that is unclear whether it is for 1 or both mounts. Didn't see the price for the trans mount. I know there are some cheaper parts available aftermarket, but I would rather spend a little more and get direct drop-ins of known quality that won't need to be shimmed, etc.

On the install, is there something that makes it more complicated than just loosening the stock mounts and jacking the engine up from the bottom for clearance? Sounds a bit like when I put my new shifter in from under the car and it took me 4 hours to do what seems like it should only have taken about 1 hour because of no space to work.

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Originally Posted by KenH

Good info. Did you notice any improvement on the shifting as some have noted?

What's the ballpark price on the parts. I see $250 on the engine mounts on their website, but that is unclear whether it is for 1 or both mounts. Didn't see the price for the trans mount. I know there are some cheaper parts available aftermarket, but I would rather spend a little more and get direct drop-ins of known quality that won't need to be shimmed, etc.

On the install, is there something that makes it more complicated than just loosening the stock mounts and jacking the engine up from the bottom for clearance? Sounds a bit like when I put my new shifter in from under the car and it took me 4 hours to do what seems like it should only have taken about 1 hour because of no space to work.

Pricing you can get from Mark J. I had ordered two different sets, one from Mark J and one from Jon B (suppose to be stiffer, but looked stock and I decided Woodhouse's were a safe bet, although a bit more expensive). I returned Jon B's and later got the ones from Mark J.

As far as the job itself. Well, it was harder then a gen 2, and I thought the Gen 2 was hard when I had aftermarket headers on it. But my gen 3, also has a super charger, so that probably added SOME minimal complexity, but again not much. The problem is not getting the mounts lose, Dodge made that easy. The hard part is once you unscrew everything, how do you get it out of the car. Then the best part, and apparently something that even 'Final GTS' Daniel had trouble with, getting both new mounts back in the car. Stock mounts only have 1 tab on 1 mount on 1 side of the car, the replacement ones have 2 tabs (2 mounts with 1 tab each on each side of the car), which makes GETTING them into the "slot" very challenging. Because one will go in, and then other wont. Daniels fix for this is to gring down the tab, on the mount that "shouldn't" have it, as the factory doesnt think you need it, so Daniel knows you dont need it in this application either. I however, like that it locks both sides from possibly moving, so I installed them both (plus, although never thought about grinding it down ).

So its more of a frustration then a huge difficulty. You have to get the puzzle pieces to match up, and its tough. So if you get pissed easily, then dont do this job, but it will challenge you, if its your first time doing so. (hell, I did my old gen 2 (with stock replacements), like i said, and that I thought was a pia, and this rivaled that).

When its all done, I gotta say.. its a think of beauty !! <-- making this a lot more fun! (you feel like you're in a race car).

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

oh, and on the shifting thing.. ok I didnt want to mention this, but for the 1st time in like a year, I missed a shift, right after I did this mod.... SOO.. this either means I was exhausted from the hard work... or.. I got so used to the "sloppyness" of the stock set up, that when it became more exact, it was a suprise to my rhythm.

I just think its me getting used to it.

Jon

[Viper X]

I just had DC install a pair of Woody's street motor mounts. The engine seems to sit a little higher than before and there is some additional vibration felt at idle, but as stated above, the car feels so much more solid and fast. Haven't really "beat on it" yet, be will when the weathter gets better.

Dan

[Kenneth Krieger]

When I was in practice I had a lot of "patients!" Now, being retIred I have learned to have a lot of PATIENCE.....just have to give you a hard time.....thanks for the info!!

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

lol. I put a few people in the hospital when I was doing the install.. that’s what I meant by patients ;-)

I'm still loving them, went out last night and had some fun.. the car just seems so much more lively, and I feel like I am more in tuned with what is going on with it. And my patients that I transport to the hospital really appreciate it ;-)

[Venomiss]

This was a really nice positive write up. Kudos for you....and we need more of it.

[B767DRIVER]

Thanks for the informative feedback!! Ordered a set for buddy and myself today!

[George Murray]

Quite a description. I haven't heard that kind of enthusiasm outta John since he was elected special projects director of NAMBLA.

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

When I saw you had post George, I just knew something smart ass was going to come outta your mouth (keyboard).

So how have you and your boyfriend been? The three amigos (scotty finally got a viper right?) still terrorizing VIR? (and by that, i am not talkin about on the track, as you guys are mostly slow, but off the track where you guys run around throwing porno mags in drivers cars?) You ladies ever hit a mid west track? It'd be fun to whoop up on ya again, ... I mean hang out with you guys again.. :-)

Jon

[B767DRIVER]

The Woodhouse mounts were installled today! I 100% concur with the original post by Jon (2002 Viper GTS ACR). Money well spent!! I highly recommend this upgrade.

Thanks Jon...your post is what pushed me over the edge on the purchase.

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Originally Posted by B767DRIVER

The Woodhouse mounts were installled today! I 100% concur with the original post by Jon (2002 Viper GTS ACR). Money well spent!! I highly recommend this upgrade.

Thanks Jon...your post is what pushed me over the edge on the purchase.

Awesome!! I'm glad, as that means its a win win, I did a service for Woodhouse/Mark and for you. They are great, and I think its important we tell it how it is, something is good, we say it... and when its not so good, we say that too, to save people from spending money unecessarily.

In this case however, they are truly a great mod. I actually love them more and more every day. I feel like I am driving a race car, becasue of how tight everything is, and the feedback I get form the suspension, body/chassis.

Really glad I could help get you to make the choice to buy them !!

Congrats!!

Jon

[OKFireChief]

Our local Viper Tech did the install today on my 06 Coupe ... Can feel a slite vibration in the steering wheel and everything Jon, Sterling and Dan said is true. They make the car feel solid ...

Thanks to Mark J at Woodhouse for providing another great product!

Sterling and I will be on the track Sunday ... Stay tuned, we will let you know ...

[Crazy1]

I had the engine and trans mounts installed in my 2006 FE Coupe while I had Mark install a supercharger system , Doug Levin Intercooler, DC computer/tune, Aluminum Flywheel, lower the car, Corsa Track Exhaust. I also added an SVS short throw shifter, RB Nav unit, Racelogic Launch/Traction Control system, PS2 non runflats, comp coupe oil pan, whole car 3M clearshield, other cosmetics like aluminum door sills later.

I love this car with all these mods and it makes so much power within 2 weeks of getting the car from Mark I broke the stock CV joint and damaged my ring and pinion inside the differential. I figured it might have been wheel hop since I still had the run craps and it felt like it jumped and then popped. Then I bought the PS2 non run flats, replaced the CV joint and got a new differential. About 2 weeks after that I got a Vbox and finally wanted to get some runs in to see what the car could do and on my first launch at a low 2000-2500rpm launch - POP! Exact same things broke (same side CV/drivers side and gears in diff damaged)

I just bought a Quaife, new 3.33 ring and pinion (did not want to jump up too much with Supercharger) and had Unitrax build me a set of their heavy duty CV Joints. I hope this will be enough to handle the power and I can really finally run the car as I have never really launched the car full power / higher RPM's.

Anyway the engine / trans mounts make a big difference in keeping the shifter from flexing under load which helps your shifting tremendously as well. Overall the car feels a lot more more solid which is very nice even in higher horsepower modded cars like mine.

Jim

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

wow.. because I just ran a 10.97@131.25 with the complete stock drive line. I wonder what your doing differently then me.

I know they beef'ed up the differential after the original ones were prone to breaking. I wonder whats going on with your car. Maybe you had a little more done to your car putting your power levels well above mine?

In any case, your in capable hands.. and I hope you get it worked out!

Jon

[Crazy1]

That's great you broke into the 10's that's damn fast for a street car that can also run on a road course with the best of them and do 200mph on the top end to boot! A Viper with a SC kit has to be the best exotic bang for your buck out there.

I think I can answer your question -

Let's put it this way - I am good friends with Ron Jr and Sr. at SVS Vipers in West Chicago and they build twin turbo world record setting monsters there so they know a thing or two about fast cars and driving them after all their years of experience. It has surprised me that they have mentioned on more than one occasion that myself and one other customer who I know should be test drivers for Dodge as we run our cars hard / balls out. I probably am making some more HP than you as I recall a thread where you said you did not have a "tune" for your car and I don't know if you did anything to the exhaust or other areas that will free up significant levels of additional HP. Mark put a special DC tune/computer in my car which if I recall he said gave me 40-50 hp over the "un-tuned system". This is probably in combination with the exhaust. In my opinion everytime you increase hp you are eventually also going to have to beef up other parts of the car such as brakes, half shafts/cv's, diff and so on. Its also not a bad idea to install some extra safety devices such as harnesses, half shaft loops, etc... I know many big HP builders such as Heffner, Hennessey and SVS to name a few that will tell you "if you want to do it right" meaning "you dont want it to break" - when you add big hp you need to be beefing up driveline, brakes, etc...

It's great to see your in Chicagoland too and since I don't know you I can't say how hard and how often you push your car to it's limits but if you push the car all out all the time as I do - sooner or later the stock cv's and diff will give out with the Supercharger adding so much power/tq. There is no doubt I have also seen many people who have had no issues with the cv's or diff but they do not push their cars all out or all that often.

I know there are two philosphies in "good driving" one is to drive within your cars limits (which is usually left to intuition since it's impossible to really know) and get the best performance that will give you. This usually means people are not pushing "all out" all the time and things don't break but also generally will not give you as good performance as the second "driving philosophy". The second philosophy is pushing the car as hard as you can (traction, launch rpms, power shifting, shift points, etc) all the time and sooner or later something will break and once that weak point is identified you beef it up. Once you reach the point of no breakage "reliability" than you really can enjoy the car worry free no matter how hard you drive and get maximum performance from it.

I am actually hopeful of running low to mid 10's once my car is solid and I can take it to the track and get some good passes on it. I used a simple 1/4 mile calculator and plugged in 3700lbs for the car with driver (3525 car + 175 driver), 675 rwhp and in "perfect conditions" the car should be capable of 10.2 and a 133mph trap at 178mph.

Here is the calculator for those who want to give it a try:

Acceleration Calculators

On my old ACR which I recently sold to a member on this forum who goes by TrainerDave and is also in Chicagoland - I broke the half shafts on that car a long time ago as well until I put heavy duty shafts on it.



Half shafts always seem to be a weak link as you crank the hp up. I also recently purchased the first Twin Turbo Lamborghini Gallardo ever made which was built by Jason Heffner for it's original owner Wayne Skiles whom I purchased the vehicle from. The vehicle is rated at 800hp (soon to turn boost up to 1000hp) and I know when they first took the car for some testing/launches the first thing that broke were the half shafts. Now after the heavy duty half shafts have been installed the car has run somewhere around 10,000 miles trouble free even with all the power and 4 wheel drive system it has.









Anyway I hope this helps explain some of my thoughts on why my stock CV's and diff broke. I know with the Quaife, a little more agressive 3.33 gearing and the Unitrax heavy duty CV's these will all contribute and allow me to run much stronger / faster than ever before.

Maybe all of us Illinois Viper owners can get together at the strip come spring time as I am hopeful of getting into the 10's with both of my cars and it seems there are quite a few Illinois Viper owners who like going to the strip?

BTW just curious - can you tell me what rpm you launched at, amount of wheel spin, etc ???


Thank You,

Jim

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Thanks Jim... I'll shoot ya a pm and we can shoot the $hit there. I think we'll just be derailing this thread otherwise

Engine and Tranny mounts worked like a charm even at the drag strip, I still say its 2nd best investment in driver satisfaction only to a Super Charger !!

Jon

[ROCKET62]

Anyone have thoughts on how changing JUST the tranny mounts would work?

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Do both, it so worth it. I doubt you'll get all the merits of the system by only doing 1 part of it.

My 2 cents.

Jon

[KenH]

Originally Posted by ROCKET62

Anyone have thoughts on how changing JUST the tranny mounts would work?

I'm with Jon on this one. As someone pointed out in one of these threads, just changing the trans mount and holding it firm while the stock engine mounts are letting the engine flop around sounds like it might put too much stress on the the trans housing.

[DC Performance]

You can trust Mark J and the Woodhouse product, top notch.

Dan Cragin
DC Performance Inc.
310-841-6996