What the Corvette folks can't stand about the ACR:

[Leslie]

I think competition is always good for the industry, can't wait to see what the final versions look like

[PatentLaw]

Leslie,

Good to see you around. Have not seen you in a while. Missed you.

As for the 1/4 mile stuff, it is a metric that does count. It does not mean everything, but a metric anyway. Saying that this car beats EVERYTHING out there is a bold statement. Very bold. I do not have reason to doubt them, but boy, that is some claim.

As for the 1/5g, I am sure that is an instantaneous reading while going around a roadcoarse. Some people on here are trying to equate that 1.5g to a pure skidpath number which, in my opinion, is in error. I could, of course, be wrong and the car pull 1.5g on a skidpath, but I don't believe that is what the engineers meant by their statements.

Obviously, this car is not for everyone, and by the look of it, people are impressed. Dodge did a good job in targeting their market, even if there are some who disagree with the package.

If Dodge is listening, I would hope that they put belts in the car to complete the deal.

As for the Corvette folks, well it is up to them to come across with a better package. They also have to contend with the fact that Dodge ALREADY has modifications to the engine to increase the hp numbers. If, for example, the ZR1 comes out with 650 hp and then Dodge immediately comes out with a 675 variant of the ACR, GM has potentially lots of problems.

We also have to add the problems of reliability in to the ZR1 package potentially offered. For those of us who have SC vehicles, while they are a hoot to drive and give you a kick when the SC cuts in, they have their inherent problems. No doubt, the ZR1 will have them as well and with people flogging these cars like crazy, they have a potential recall issue on their hands.

As for the tires and wheels, Dodge obviously understands that traction is a really big part of the equation. They got that right. Most high performance sports cars are limited by their traction. Dodge tried to throw out this limitation with the tire/wheel package.

[F8L SNK]

Tony,

I agree with your opinion on the LSX motors, but there is not the same comparison of the drivetrain. The transmission in the back is nice for weight distribution, btw Viper's is better, but looses some shift feel and durability. The rear end is not even in the same league, honestly when have you seen a viper blow a rear end to pieces vs how many times this has happened with a Corvette (of any designation)? The brakes while very good on the Z06, do not compare for track duty either (LG has brought this up themselves with their race car) Put your viper up on your lift, compare the chassis and its components, that is the difference.

As far as the new corvette getting a s/c, this will also add to heat soak as you know. All of this adds up to a much better track car on the Viper's behalf. It also means the Viper will NOT be as good of a street car as the Vette. So it comes down to which way do you want to go? 1/4 mile verdict is still out as there has been no release of any specifics by Chevrolet. Will it beat the Viper, does it have the potential?? And as far as boost numbers on each motor, you are talking aftermarket mods, which again the Viper's displacement will be more favorable. Ie: 7.5lbs of boost + 850 RWHP on the viper. Questions that we can only speculate on.

Originally Posted by Nine Ball

Wow, I really hope that some of you aren't as naive as you appear when it comes to GM engines.

For those that do not know me, I co-founded LS1TECH.com (look it up) and have been building/racing LSX engines since 1998. I also write for GM High Tech magazine, and am involved behind the scenes with GM performance.

I also own a Viper. It is one of several toys I own.

1. A supercharged LSX is nothing to sneeze at. In my previous C6, I had a small housing Eaton blower on a stock engine (6.0L, 11.1 CR) and it made 550 rwhp SAE at only 5.5 psi. That engine (LS2) wasn't even a boost friendly engine. 550 rwhp is approx 625 HP at the crank. The car went 11.2 @ 129 on stock run-flats. It weighed 235 lbs more than a C6 Z06. My twin-turbo 2006 GTO puts down 550 rwhp at 6psi boost, on a completely stock LS2 (6.0L) with factory exhaust.

2. The ZR-1 (speculation on) is planned to be a lower compression 6.2L LSX based engine with a great set of heads. Similar heads to the current LS7, and LS3/L92. With a properly built, forged internal engine to handle a factory supercharger, it will easily put down higher numbers than my previous car did. Figure a simply pulley swap will net even more. There will be 650+ rwhp ZR-1 Corvettes out there, with minimal mods. 650 rwhp is over 700 HP at the crank. Look how simple the '03-04 Cobras with a factory supercharger could hit 500+ rwhp. Pulley, headers, tuning. That was with a smaller engine also.

3. The Corvette is lighter than a Viper. Try 300 lbs or so. Both cars suffer from traction issues with stock tires. Most of the hardcore enthusiasts will have better tires installed anyways. Traction is a lame excuse, buy some tires.

4. Bench racing sucks. Sadly, buyers of both the ACR and the ZR-1 will probably be 90% garage queens, owned by people too scared to drive them to potential.

5. I'm putting a Paxton on my SRTC, and will enjoy kicking the crap out of the ZR-1, the ACR, and any other exotic I may come across.

[JBsZ06]

I'm an avid corvette fan and I'll happier than a pig in sh!t because as the viper gets faster so goes the corvette..

Its a great rivalary.

Both great cars!

JMO

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Originally Posted by JBsZ06

I'm an avid corvette fan and I'll happier than a pig in sh!t because as the viper gets faster so goes the corvette..

Its a great rivalary.

Both great cars!

JMO

Agreed.

Both great, both completely different, both for different markets.

[Bill Pemberton]

In talking to a Pro Viper driver, who will remain nameless ( just cuz I don't wantzz to cause them a buncha flack ), the 2008 Viper was virtually able to keep up with a Comp Coupe at the undisclosed , Area 51 ( winning number for the Viper at Lemans ) race track.

Oh, yeh, I forgot , that Snake was just the regular , normal, wimpy , 600 hp Viper----makes you wonder what an aerodynamic , lighter weight, shock and suspension modified , ACR dressed SRT10 might do , when called to dinner?!

[bluestreak]

I consider myself neutral on the vette vs viper subject, but this is what I call swinging back by dodge, and affordable race car!!!!!!!!! The S/C ZR-1 doesnt appeal to me for reasons of S/C.

Imagine the Mopar 675 kit on the ACR. That would be the perfect car, or just a heads, cam, exhaust ACR. Wow!! This is magic, love what dodge has done.



However, for those less informed, this car will likely be slower in the 1/4 mile and 0-60 than the base 08' for reasons of downforce. This car belongs on the track where the results can be seen. Braking, roadholding, slalom and lap times will be what is affected.

[Nine Ball]

Originally Posted by F8L SNK

Tony,

I agree with your opinion on the LSX motors, but there is not the same comparison of the drivetrain.

I definitely agree that the Viper drivetrain is superior to the Corvettes. I busted my C6 rearend in half on drag radials, without even launching it hard (1.81 60'). After that expensive lesson, I never wanted to take it back to the drag strip. But, the stock Corvette rearend holds up just fine on the road course, I've yet to see any fail out there. Wheelhop and shock loads will break them. They did make improvements to the aluminum casing after 2006 however, and the Z06 rearend is more stout than the base C6.

Tranny wise, both cars use the same tranny. Trannys aren't an issue for either car. I had a B&M shifter in my C6 and it shifted great, very precise and had short throws.

[SnakeBitten]

Originally Posted by Bill Pemberton

In talking to a Pro Viper driver, who will remain nameless ( just cuz I don't wantzz to cause them a buncha flack ), the 2008 Viper was virtually able to keep up with a Comp Coupe at the undisclosed , Area 51 ( winning number for the Viper at Lemans ) race track.

Oh, yeh, I forgot , that Snake was just the regular , normal, wimpy , 600 hp Viper----makes you wonder what an aerodynamic , lighter weight, shock and suspension modified , ACR dressed SRT10 might do , when called to dinner?!

Wow, if it wasnt just hype, thats a big statement....Absolutely incredible considering the amount of things the street Viper gives away to the Comp Coupe....Do the Comp Coupes get an upgrade to this 600hp motor???

[ZDigital1]

From what I hear, Prefix is involved with the design of the ACR. Can anyone confirm?

[09 Venom]

Wow.. I feel like I am on the MB World forum. This Viper vs Vette is almost as entertaining as AMG vs M cars. I am probably one of many forum members here who have owned both a Viper and Vette and will not add fuel to the fire. That being said, I will hold on to my '05 Viper until they build the 675 HP version of the ACR Viper. I don't want to be playing second fiddle to anyone. Even the new Super snake mustang will have 605 hp. The ZR1 will certainly be a beast. Just give us the 675HP versions...... NOW!!!!!!

[wallbanger]

Does all this have anything to do with penis size

[DEKE01]

Originally Posted by Andrew/USPWR

Dodge could end it once and for all, by offering a Twin Turbo option from, dare I say, Hennessy. Charge an extra $100.000 and just end it. The Bugatti killer for $185,000 from Dodge.

I just bought that Fly Navy Bugatti killer (note my avatar). I just took delivery a week ago so I haven't had a chance to really exercise it yet.

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Originally Posted by dun4791

Do you really think Z06 owners care? If so they will just buy a Viper. Buying a car really isnt all that difficult.

You think the ZL-1 is going to be less durable and practical? A factory SC/IC car? I disagree.

Well said +1!!!!!

[Whoaa GTS]

Originally Posted by Bill Pemberton

In talking to a Pro Viper driver, who will remain nameless ( just cuz I don't wantzz to cause them a buncha flack ), the 2008 Viper was virtually able to keep up with a Comp Coupe at the undisclosed , Area 51 ( winning number for the Viper at Lemans ) race track.

Oh, yeh, I forgot , that Snake was just the regular , normal, wimpy , 600 hp Viper----makes you wonder what an aerodynamic , lighter weight, shock and suspension modified , ACR dressed SRT10 might do , when called to dinner?!

Mwuahahaha thats what I think we all want to hear

[viprvenm]

Originally Posted by Nine Ball

Wow, I really hope that some of you aren't as naive as you appear when it comes to GM engines.

For those that do not know me, I co-founded LS1TECH.com (look it up) and have been building/racing LSX engines since 1998. I also write for GM High Tech magazine, and am involved behind the scenes with GM performance.

I also own a Viper. It is one of several toys I own.

1. A supercharged LSX is nothing to sneeze at. In my previous C6, I had a small housing Eaton blower on a stock engine (6.0L, 11.1 CR) and it made 550 rwhp SAE at only 5.5 psi. That engine (LS2) wasn't even a boost friendly engine. 550 rwhp is approx 625 HP at the crank. The car went 11.2 @ 129 on stock run-flats. It weighed 235 lbs more than a C6 Z06. My twin-turbo 2006 GTO puts down 550 rwhp at 6psi boost, on a completely stock LS2 (6.0L) with factory exhaust.

2. The ZR-1 (speculation on) is planned to be a lower compression 6.2L LSX based engine with a great set of heads. Similar heads to the current LS7, and LS3/L92. With a properly built, forged internal engine to handle a factory supercharger, it will easily put down higher numbers than my previous car did. Figure a simply pulley swap will net even more. There will be 650+ rwhp ZR-1 Corvettes out there, with minimal mods. 650 rwhp is over 700 HP at the crank. Look how simple the '03-04 Cobras with a factory supercharger could hit 500+ rwhp. Pulley, headers, tuning. That was with a smaller engine also.

3. The Corvette is lighter than a Viper. Try 300 lbs or so. Both cars suffer from traction issues with stock tires. Most of the hardcore enthusiasts will have better tires installed anyways. Traction is a lame excuse, buy some tires.

4. Bench racing sucks. Sadly, buyers of both the ACR and the ZR-1 will probably be 90% garage queens, owned by people too scared to drive them to potential.

5. I'm putting a Paxton on my SRTC, and will enjoy kicking the crap out of the ZR-1, the ACR, and any other exotic I may come across.

I enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. As an owner of a 2001 S/C Viper and a 2006 TT GTO I respect both engines very much. I have owned two LS1 Camaro's and they can be made to be very respectful with little effort. All of these cars are a blast to drive for very different reasons. I have been told on this board before that GTO's are not sports cars and this and that. Camaro Corvette and GTO are all respectable V8 sports cars... especially when you have an unsuspecting Vette or Viper owner beside your TT GTO and they just have no idea what is under that hood... hehe!! Long live American Horsepower!!!!!! These are all great examples of fine sports cars at an affordable price!

[wallbanger]

[AviP]

Real racers look at track times, quarter miles times are for those who can't turn.

Conversation between a track racer and a 1/4 mile racer.

Track racer: What's the steering wheel in your top fuel dragster for?
1/4 miler racer: It's for turning into and exiting the track.

Track racer: So it's basically useless during your race.
1/4 mile racer: That's right but my race lasts only 4 seconds so I don't miss it.

Track racer: Have you heard about lateral Gs.
1/4 mile racer: Lateral Jeez? Yeah, there was this one time when I flipped my racer going down the track and the doctor said I had broken some bones because of the Lateral Jeez.

Track racer: How did you flip the car?
1/4 mile racer: I used my steering wheel during the race.

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Not bad AviP. But I think it's more like this...

Dragger: Yeehaw, Bud's on sale for $1.99 a six!!!
Tracker: Can't, I spent all my money on brake pads and tires.

[Rapid Transit]

The Viper continues to get props from the huge majority of Vette owners, myself included. The ACR is very well received at Corvette Forum, as seen here: 2008 Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR street-legal track car - Corvette Forum
I don't get the animosity that's coming mostly from the Viper community towards the Corvette. The ACR looks real bad ass to me. Can't wait to see the performance.

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Originally Posted by DEKE01

I just bought that Fly Navy Bugatti killer (note my avatar). I just took delivery a week ago so I haven't had a chance to really exercise it yet.

Looks like you're gonna get a chance Saturday! I can't wait to see it. This time I don't think I will pick a position as the car ahead of you. You're gonna need a little more room to let that thing out than your SRT convertible!

[DEKE01]

Originally Posted by Lee00blacksilverGTS

Looks like you're gonna get a chance Saturday! I can't wait to see it.

Well I hope so. Sounds like you're in. So far that's only Kelly, you, and me.

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Originally Posted by DEKE01

Well I hope so. Sounds like you're in. So far that's only Kelly, you, and me.

Well, that's cause we're the only ones that KNOW right now, so we're at 100% of rsvp response Email going out to entire club this afternoon.
Just pm'd you your VCA number by the way. I just got it.

[DEKE01]

I posted a notice in the events section of the national and VA/MD fora, but no responses so far.

[CaptainDavid]

Just like my friend "Jackson" says" The Viper is the best thing that ever happened to Corvette.!!!!!

[Venomiss]

Originally Posted by Rapid Transit

The Viper continues to get props from the huge majority of Vette owners, myself included. The ACR is very well received at Corvette Forum, as seen here: 2008 Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR street-legal track car - Corvette Forum
I don't get the animosity that's coming mostly from the Viper community towards the Corvette. The ACR looks real bad ass to me. Can't wait to see the performance.

No animosity just your basic trolls like on page 9 in case you missed it.

Official ACR info

There are many Corvette owners that own Vipers and the majority here respect that - and their owners.