Nissan GTR Versus The 08 Viper

[STUGOTS]

wonder what the GTR would do with a boost bump

[bluestreak]

A 3.8 Twin Turbo 6 cylinder should make 600 hp easily with just an ECU depending on the flow potential of the Turbos. I say 650 or so. But I dont know it it will hold because the motor already seems to have kinks in it. Nissan do not want this car to be modded and for a very good reason (It breaks, FAST) Clutch, motor, tranny are all at big risk, and it's not exactly user friendly to fix. I bet paying for two clutches instead of one wont be cheap either.

[sbkim]

Originally Posted by STUGOTS

wonder what the GTR would do with a boost bump

If I recall, the V spec is basically the current motor with increased boost. No guesstimates on HP but I presume it will be north of 550.

As posted earlier, I am also curious to see how the other parts (eg tranny, plasma lining etc) holds up over time and increased boost.

[sbkim]

Originally Posted by RTTTTed

No one has mentioned if the car has a digital/computerized "climate control system" like my 1992 Dodge Stealth came with. How about a computer controlled stereo system like what came in my Stealth? I'd hate to think that they've added only TC and "launch control" to the '92 Stealth electronics. Wouldn't make the GTR appear to be very hi-tech if the 92 Stealth came with all the computer junk except the two aforementioned systems...

Ted

I believe climate control is computer controlled and shown on multi function display. Just more $hit to break later I guess. Funny you mentioned about Stealth, I was curious how those AWD TT monsters (including VR4) would fare against the GTR. Assuming it's heavily modified, GTR probably wouldn't have chance but I am sure GTR will hold its ground againt BPU's with higher HP - mainly due to better tranny in 0-60 and 1/4mi. I think on road track, GTR would fare much better.

[RTTTTed]

The new 2008 version of OBD program disallows modifications according to gov. regulations I read. I would presume it would probably allow a couple psi, but changing turbos etc. would probably requier the expensive AEM system or may not allow any mods? I read in these forums that someone has supercharged an 08 Viper? Roe or Hennnessey would know about the new OBD and it's limitations.

The OBD2 in my Stealth, however has no problem with my bigger turbos and the computer is programmable. There is also lots of 'translators' and sub computers that will allow any modifications to be made.

GTR???

Ted

[sbkim]

How about 11.1 with ECU mod?

Haltech GT-R Runs 11.1 @ 124mph in Stock Trim w/Haltech ECU

[RTTTTed]

Not sure that's any proof of anything. Different car that doesn't meet North American OBD rules.

Also may have bigger turbos like the Stealth R/T TT (came with 13Gs except for North America got 9Bs). Changing the Stealth to 13Gs was the main source of my 200hp gain.

We could also assume that the boost control is in the computer and the car comes with max boost since they adjusted timing AND fuel parameters. I would also assume race turbos instead of stock street turbos since the write up says "Stock Trim", not STOCK. So consider that GTR as highly modified since it has huge money spent on reworking the ECU which may not be a viable option for the North American car.

I'm not saying that a GTR can't be made faster than a STOCK Viper, but that stock it costs the same, has puny tires and too little hp to be comparable to a stock Gen 2, 3 or 4 Viper, even under the 112mph speed limit stated earlier in the thread.

I can't understand why anyone would even try to compare a 112mph car to a 200+mph car???

Modified to modified ... a TT turbo Viper gets 1-2,000 rwhp. The GTR?

They just don't belong on the same forum because the Viper was designed as the "Ultimate no-frills sportscar" and the GTR was designed as a Street machine. Perhaps it was designed to be a cheapo BMW, Audi, Mercedes? It certainly can't compare with an 08 Viper in any way, except for price.

Ted

[RTTTTed]

When I enter my Viper in a car show and it's the only Viper there, I know I'm taking home the 1st place trophy.

If I had a GTR and entered it I know there would be about 10 ricers there taking the trophy home before the GTR.

Not comparable. Think of the GTR as a fast on rainy days or snow racer as that's where it would beat the Viper, just like my Stealth does. Although my Stealth compares well to a GTR (same weight, hp, AWD and hp) it doesn't compare to a good Viper. The hp delivery doesn't compare to the hp delivery of a V10 at all.



But, my Stealth is definitely fastest during winter, while the Viper is parked. That's why I plan to keep the Stealth, because it does the 'normal' things that a Viper can't do well.

Ted

[sbkim]

You asked whether GTR can be modded - you prob got caught up on rumors that ECU couldn't be cracked. My point is that GTR can be modded as seen in link above. 112 vs 200?? Again, need to do more research. There is no speed limiter in US spec. Stealth comparable to GTR...umm ok - agreed both have 4 tires, 2 door, and couple turbos.

I don't disagree with comments about how GTR and Viper are not comparable. Both have supercar performance but delivery is very different. Prices are not even comparable... unless pricing is different in CA.

[Vip23er]

Maybe I am biased since I have a 2003 Viper, but am I the only one who is tired of all these manufacturers putting turbos on cars and then saying they can compete with a Viper...and even a C6 ZO6. If you put a twin turbo in a Kia, it would go fast. I still prefer pure american muscle over a turbocharged wannabe. Now, that is not to be said that I dont love the turbocharged Vipers, but that is a different story. There, they are taking an excellent performing car and making it better. In the case of the GTR, the car would be nothing without the twin turbos.

[sbkim]

Vip23er - agreed GTR certainly would be nothing without the twin turbos. Certainly, Viper wouldn't be viper without that V10 either - but at least it looks like a total bad a$$.

[STUGOTS]

factory turbo is ALMOST cheating, "lets get a POS 2.2L engine and crank 19 Lbs of boost through it, WOAHHHH (in Keanu Reeves voice) Festus I think we got us a super car here"

hell I can put a turbo on my lawnmower and make it rip so what?

[Vipermann]

Originally Posted by sbkim

How about 11.1 with ECU mod?

Haltech GT-R Runs 11.1 @ 124mph in Stock Trim w/Haltech ECU

Honestly ...who cares? I mean, if a car runs a quick 1/4 mile due to outstanding awd traction at launch, but finishes a lap or more behind on even a short road course race, what does that prove? really?

Coming out of a turn, the (stock) Viper blows away / pulls away from the GT-R.

And talk about mods, any ECU tweaked GT-R, is twice as stressed as any stock Viper and thus more likely to break, and still more stressed, even after a Viper is modded. At that point (against a modded Viper) the GT-R is good for nothing but speed-controlled pace car duty ...or otherwise doesn't belong on the same track.

[bluestreak]

I'm a bit confused at some of the comments here. HP is HP (unless it's nos and you have to refill it). Turbos have made their way into all the various forms of major racing and soon turbo will be the only way to go as turbo deisel technology from racing makes it's way into street cars and CAFE laws continue to grow.

Using forced induction allows similar hp output from smaller packages. Part of the reason the Viper is so heavy for a two seater sports car is because of the gigantic V10. There is no perfect way to make power, the perfection comes in making the power efficient and putting the power on the pavement.

The Viper doesnt need any justification by making up reasons to not like the other cars. And this is coming from someone who dislikes the GT-R more than anyone here by far. But moreso because of rigged magazine articles and overhype.

But yes it is more likely to break, as the piston rings have already been found to be weak, and the clutch prone to failure with added power. So owners will have fun replacing two clutches in a complex network of gadgets, I can imagine the cost on that will be pretty crazy considering there will only be a limited amount of GT-R's so demand for the parts will be low and the price HIGH. Also, I dont think the added hp will be very friendly for launch control before the diff or tranny breaks completely as they've been having problems with that too.


Nissan has a good rep for build quality, but that's for compacts, sedans and suv's, I doubt this car will hold up like cars that are built like tanks (Viper, Porsche).

[RTTTTed]

Actually, hp isn't hp.

My Stealth has high rpm hp while my Viper has early hp and max torque off idle with the Positive Displacement supercharger. Although the Stealth has 500hp the power curve starts slowly and builds until it peaks about 6500rpm. My Viper makes unbelievable torque and all you feel is full throttle whenever you hit the gas. No rpm hp power differential can be felt at different rpms. Hit the throttle and hang on (try to keep the nose pointed forward).

To me a supercar is a mobile sculpture that not only looks spectacular, but is built to perform after 100mph. Before the introduction of the Viper they were called 'exotic' cars because they were all built in Europe. With the Viper GM actually got serious about performance and started chasing the Viper. Thanks to that North America had 2 supercars. Then came the S7, Venom 1000 and the Lingenfelter 1000hp vette. North America now builds a ton of supercars that set the world standard on performance.

Not sure how many Veyrons were built, but there's more Hennessey Venom 1000s out there with comparable performance at less than 1/6th the price. Try that with a ricer.

GTR 1000??? Never gonna happen. Not a supercar.

Ted