2008 Warranty voided because of track driving ?

[Schulmann]

I have a special question. In the past when we had track driving events Chrysler was happy to repair our Vipers under warranty when we had an issue. We had towing services available in Dallas and in Las Vegas at the VOI. We had also a lot of track driving events with other clubs. Dealers never asked a single question about track driving.

Since the economy is very weak I am wondering if Chrysler will owner the warranty if we drive our Vipers on track. In fact we had two problems where the warranty was voided because of track driving ... Just last weak a 2008 Viper severly burned it clutch. It will not be covered because according to the dealer the Viper was "abused" on a track a week earlier by a camera crew. The camera crew did 5 laps on a track for a movie ... they drove it 12 minutes ... I was there. They didn't abuse it.


So I am wondering what is the status of the warranty if we drive our Vipers on track ?

[SylvanSRT]

big difference between track day/HPDE and racing! warranty should cover the former, but not racing. If thats the case you are dealing with a very unfriendly dealer IMHO

[Jeff Monheim]

Yes I would also like to know from a Factory Rep. if our warranty is good in HPDE track days. Just receiently a friend blew his engine on the track! (07- Z06 Corvette 16k miles) 90mph about 5000 rpm. Computer was downloaded and showed that this engine never saw red line! This guy always shifts about 750 to 1000 rpm below red line. Never really pushes the limit just likeS to drive fast in a controled situation. Factory rep said seats were changed, tow hook installed, on the rear, rubber marks all over car and inside wheelwells, front rotors have heat checking. Warranty repair DENIED! What does any of that have to do with the engine coming apart! Bottom of block blew out connecting rods and bearing caps on the track. It was not pretty!
I think the dollar issues with ALL the car makers have something to do with this deniel of claim and would like to find out where we stand. BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPENS TO ONE OF US! This was not the dealer it was a FACTORY REP. WHO DENIED THE CLAIM.

[adamlotus]

how can they prove it was done at the track,your friend with the z06 should be able to fight that.

[rocman]

If the computer info was downloaded and it never showed abuse, then all other factors do not matter. He should definitely fight it.

Originally Posted by Jeff Monheim

Yes I would also like to know from a Factory Rep. if our warranty is good in HPDE track days. Just receiently a friend blew his engine on the track! (07- Z06 Corvette 16k miles) 90mph about 5000 rpm. Computer was downloaded and showed that this engine never saw red line! This guy always shifts about 750 to 1000 rpm below red line. Never really pushes the limit just likeS to drive fast in a controled situation. Factory rep said seats were changed, tow hook installed, on the rear, rubber marks all over car and inside wheelwells, front rotors have heat checking. Warranty repair DENIED! What does any of that have to do with the engine coming apart! Bottom of block blew out connecting rods and bearing caps on the track. It was not pretty!
I think the dollar issues with ALL the car makers have something to do with this deniel of claim and would like to find out where we stand. BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPENS TO ONE OF US! This was not the dealer it was a FACTORY REP. WHO DENIED THE CLAIM.

[VCA Member NY]

Nobody sands by their products anymore..even the foreign auto makers. BMW Meredes top the list. Let's just face it, today everything is made to be replaced within 5 years..if it lasts that long.

[JonB - PartsRack]

1) Dodge provided free service off-the-books at VOI so that WARRANTY SERVICE was not needed or documented. The PARTS were even free! This began at VOI-4, our 1st ever VOI track events. If anything, it underscores that if you race your Viper, your warrantee can be voided.

2) YOUR DEALER MATTERS. If your dealer is a PRInce, and has a good rep with their zone, on-track SCHOOLS and non-compete, Non-timed events may be OK. But if your dealer is a PRI**, (Or if you live in Canada! THE ANSWER IS DIFFERENT FOR CANADA! Diffrent country, different company. ) Dodge can void your warrantee for sure. And your chance of an appeal is slim.

Driving Schools People! When you sign in the ever-present liability waiver at a track event, always sign in as "STUDENT" It can be subpoened and clearly shows your motive and intent.

DRAG RACES provide a TIME SLIP. "Speed Contest" is a weasel word too, and will void a warranty. You are not in a school, no classroom or instructors.....

[Jeff Monheim]

Thanks for the input Jon. However does not give me that warm fuzzy feeling! Now answer your phone I am calling about some Parts!

[JonB - PartsRack]

Originally Posted by Jeff Monheim

Yes I would also like to know from a Factory Rep. ........I think the dollar issues with ALL the car makers have something to do with this deniel of claim and would like to find out where we stand. BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPENS TO ONE OF US! This was not the dealer it was a FACTORY REP. WHO DENIED THE CLAIM.

Jeff: DON'T ASK - DON'T TELL

If you ask for an official opinion from a zone rep you will NOT like the answer. Better to ask as John Smith, with NO VIN # !!

The first time my Dodge dealer raised my car back in 1993, the tech's first words were: "You've been a Baaaad Boy......look at all those track marbles." The zone rep back then tried to play hardball with 2 of us. TEAM VIPER stood up big time, and vetoed the rep.

(That rep later bought a VIPER and apologized to us for 'just doing his job'.)

THOSE DAYS ARE GONE.......

[fireball]

[quote=JonB - PartsRack;2567332] Or if you live in Canada! QUOTE]

OK, this matters to me. I do the occasional track day and I'd like to take the ACR (when it arrives... soon I hope!) and still have warranty coverage. I sure don't expect brakes (or for me - even clutch) but I do expect the engine, tranny, rear end and even the AC unit to stay together! I will not be racing the car nor will I enter any timed event but I would like to go to the track with it.

If Dodge won't warranty the car I guess I'll just drive it around town until I'm certain that the car is solid (1 - 2 years?). It would be a shame to take a Miata ('08) to the track and leave the ACR at home but at least I know that Mazda stands behind their products.

What's the situation in Canada that's different from the US?

[JonB - PartsRack]

Chrysler Canada HQ is just across the bridge from Detroit, but seems light-years away in some attitudes. My experience with Chrysler Canada began in 1995 when I got em 33 Vipers for an Indy Pace event. Some of our customers and I have found them - since Daimler time- to be 'sticklers' for the 'letter of the law' on warrantee work. They lay down the law to their dealers on motor mods, etc.

Ironic that Dodge's FOUNDER of the VCA received 2 major corporate promotions, to Chrysler Mexico and and then headed Chrysler Canada til he retired after the Daimler 'merger of not-so-equals'

Things are changing boys.......you wanna play, you gotta pay. Most recent Viper mag ACR artcle mentioned it. Even the VCA recently did an 'our friends' warning post on '08 possible warrantee issues. [In the old days, the VCA fought hard FOR members on rare issues.....I hope that has not changed.....yet ANOTHER reason to be a member, if the VCA lobbies FOR members! ]

If you crack the motor, bugger with inaccurate PCM swaps, have race numbers on your car, or get sloppy about under-car-cosmetics, an inquisitive suit visiting a non-friendly dealer might FLAG your warrantee. Horrible experience for several of our customers ! And the 800-warrantee line does NOT need to tow your conked-out Viper from the RACE TRACK !!!! You could get 'flagged' for follow up. Tow it YOURSELF.........

And DONT be a PRI** Yourself with warrantee admin. issues!! If you are making the local rep miserable, thay can make you a lot MORE miserable if they have been 'overlooking' an issue. Dont DEMAND replacement cars, faster service, etc. Play Nice. Be patient. Be realistic! You own a rare, hand-built Viper. If it was a Ram-1500 or a Charger or a vette you'ld be back on the road tomorrow!

IF YOUR DEALER IS A PRI** (not a Prince): dont leave your slicks on the car, and WASH YOUR UNDERCARRIAGE of marbles, etc. Tuck your harnesses out of sight. Dont be braggin at the dealership about all your track conquests. "I WENT TO A DRIVING SCHOOL" is how any track evidence occured. "You know, the kind of school that Dodge now GIVES to all SRT BUYERS!"

Then, find a PRINCE of a Dealer, even if you have to tow/drive 2-4 hours. Trust Me on this.

[1BADGTS]

I was also warned about the exact same type of issues specifically mods other than simple bolt ons (one of the main reasone i got rid of the 06 for an 08 )It definately aint ten years ago the zone reps are cracking down .If you have some sort of power adder mods other than a simple bolt ons (excluding a supercharger of coarse) and something goes (the zone reps look alot more closely than years ago)say goodbye to the warranty

[Schulmann]

Jon, THANKS A LOT for these advises ... I really appreciate your help.

[fireball]

This good advice, thankyou. They were good with my last car but I think the ACR is a special situation.

Along these lines has anyone heard of non warranted 'expensive' parts failing on the '08's? You know, motors, transmissions, diffs, ABS modulators?

[Boxer12]

I am curious bout this comment in the recent R&T article:
"Our ACR had its warranty-voiding stickers removed from its fully adjustable suspension." First mention of anything like limitations on use of the car that void warranty. What is that all about?

Also, I have heard that guys running Dodge Cummins deisel's know to remove the chips and other performance parts (even intakes) before sending the baby over to the dealer for any work, to avoid the 'warranty-voiding' issue. The usual montra is 'you have to pay to play' and most guys don't complain if they blow something up and it's not covered. I have heard of several SRT10 trucks that have blown up on the track, certainly not racing, but doing HPDE events. Have they been covered?

[JonB - PartsRack]

Originally Posted by Boxer12

..............I am curious bout this comment in the recent R&T article: "Our ACR had its warranty-voiding stickers removed from its fully adjustable suspension." First mention of anything like limitations on use of the car that void warranty. What is that all about??.....

In the newest SSG GREEN COVER Viper Mag, is a MUST-READ, MUST COPY, MUST SHARE, Fantastic ACR and track setup 7-page illustrated article by Matt B of Team SRT Race Team. It could save your LIFE if not just your equipment! Included as a closer is a THREE PARAGRAPH ADVISORY about Warranty. It states in part:

"...It's important that ACR owners understand that the manufacturer warranty does not cover any racing, track use and some adjustments from factory settings. Many people ask about this, especially since the Viper ACR was designed to rule the race track. The simple fact is that the high wear and abusive environment of a race track or closed course event makes it impossible to cover the ACR under warranty...........There would simply be no way to offer the ACR anywhere close to [its] price and attempt to cover warranty due to track use."


[There is MORE as well..........this article is one of the best Viper setup primers I have EVER read..........VCA MEMBERS get VIPER MAGAZINE. Do You? 1-800-998-1110]

The factory setting of the ACR shock adjuster knobs and the wing geometry are 'safety stickered' with tamper evident mylar tape warnings. If you make adjustments outside factory parameters it is obvious, and 'may void warrantee' .....details are in the ACR owners manual.
It is not specific on WHICH warranty element might be affected: ie the SHOCK warrantee? The wing warrantee? or the whole flipping car? (latter probably not legal)

Remember: Your PCM has a coded in, short-term event memory for engine parameters!
-------------------------
THE SKY IS NOT FALLING ! I was at a track rat dinner last night and the host mentioned "JonB has more Viper laps at Portland Intl Raceway than anyone". In all those many laps, (~20,000 lap miles in my 96 GTS and counting, and maybe 2000 miles in my 06, plus 15000 miles on my 93!) I have had the following surprise component issues:

93 Power Steering pump failed 1 time in 51000 miles. Warranteed. Probably my fault as a newbee.

93 Head gaskets seeped.......but they all did, replaced under warrantee.

96 oil pressure issue, (early-early #1 retail delivery) that resulted in mods to all 165 GTSs produced by then, and pan production changes for all GTS.
96 Clutch Pedal came off. Resulted in a running design change all GTS.
96 heater hoses BLEW off...... see pressure issue above. Warrantee.
these 3 issues were in WEEK ONE!
15,000 miles: 96 Fan failure, fan relay melt-down covered by a TSB and covered.
2 x PS pumps. 1 warranty, 1 not
I did replace all wheel bearings TWICE, as well as just replaced all ball joints. 50K MILES!!!

That GTS will be on track this weekend AGAIN, and NO DRIVELINE ISSUES.

I have owned several other Vipers for 2 mos - 2 years and MOST saw track use with no issues that I remember at all.

My 06 (1st retail deliverly) has had 3 electronic issues with BCM-ALARM cockpit.

My confidence in the Viper product for 08-09 is EXTREMELY HIGH. The specs on the HARDWARE of this G4 motor show it to be very durable if not bullet-resistant. It is BOGUS for anyone to suggest that 'adding 50HP to this motor over stresses' it. Pure Baloney. And I reviewed that comment with some key folks at Dodge who say PHOOEY (edited) to that.

Any issues so far seem to be electronic gremlins. A known issue that I cannot IMAGINE would be flagged or voided due to track use.

If you are diligent about ALL your fluids, your wearables (pads, clutch, WIRES, plugs belts/hoses/pressure lines, seals and bushings and bearings etc) you can be confident that your Viper is a track beast. But be DILIGENT. And dont let track or road residue corrode the underside. "KEEP IT CLEAN EVEN WHERE IT CANT BE SEEN" Residue retains moisture and minerals and retains heat and degrades seals and bushings. And, marbles are a dead giveaway of track use

Sorry for the epistle.......

[redtanrt10]

When I read the latest VCA magazine I was concerned about the warantee voiding comments in the ACR article. Lee, the adminstrator, then made comments and also attached a PDF of the ACR owner's manual for 2008. (See post #8). In the manual it has the new disclosures on the warrantee and also has lots of great information.

JonB is right on with his comments on how to get warrantee work done, if you think you can tow from the track, act anything but appreciative and not have a good dealer working with you, your gonna get placed in the "customer pay" line. A good rapport with a good dealer is a key. For me it was the difference between getting an Arrow rebuld or geting jerked around on leaking head gaskets on our '94. I also got a new hood due to a 1" hairline crack on the hood when the car was 5 years old. Another dealer did a fuel pump on my ACR and candidly told me that the aftermarket amp (wiring) probably was the cause. I've had a few more items that the dealers went to bat for me on. The reason they did is because I did business with them.

In the early days, Chrysler bent over backwards and paid for almost anything, in the late 90's they started to push back. I think they got abused by some folks so now there much more guarded on everybody. Plus, ther cash flow ain't what is used to be.

Here's the link, thanks Lee!

http://forums.viperclub.org/vca-memb...-magazine.html

[Schulmann]

I heared something about "quota" on warranty works on any Chrysler car.
It seems that in Canada each dealer has a quota regarding a repare under warranty.
For instance depending on the volume a dealer can repare under warranty 5 transmissions, 2 clutches, 2 engins so on. That sounds bad for customers.

[RTTTTed]

I live in Canada and Daimler Chrysler warranty cancelled mine BECAUSE I BOUGHT THE CAR IN THE US. LOL.

The excuse was "to discourage cross-border shopping."

I guess that saved them soldering the door speaker wire and replacing the 10% incorrect odometer reading. Probably new/defective guage.

I don't believe there was any warranty work done previous to the car.

Ted

[rcl4668]

I strongly concur with Jon B's advice about finding a good, customer-friendly dealership with qualified Viper techs. My local dealership is one of those dealerships and has made a huge difference in the ownership of my 2008. Bottom line, if you find a good dealership, hold on to it and develop and maintain the relationship with the sales, parts and technical staff.

/Rich