Thread: Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

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  1. #1
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    Default Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

    Hello, anybody here want to be able to use 6th gear to go fast instead of just for gas mileage? There is a guy who builds race transmissions for the Corvette racing teams who is a master rebuilder for Tremec that has come up with a way to put a .80 ratio for 5th and a .62 for 6th instead of a .74 5th and a .5 6th. In stock 5th gear the Viper would top out at 205 MPH @6200 RPM. The stock Viper .5 6th gear is way too low of a torque multiplier to go as fast as the car can go in 5th. With a stock 3.07 rear end gear, and a .8 5th, @6000 RPM you would be going 185 MPH, (Good for Just about any road course, I believe), --> Now you shift into 6th and will be at around 4600 RPM( Turbo and Supercharger cars will shine here!) By 6000 RPM you will be going 238 MPH! (Assuming you have the power to push the car that fast!) Erik Messley went 227 MPH with 650 Hp Caldwell Motor @ 7400 or so RPM. Also Road race guys, check this out, put a 3.73 gear in the rear end, and now you have effectively added another usable gear to the car which can still go 203 MPH @ 6200 RPM. The 3.73 rear end gear combined with .62 6th is almost identical to the stock 5th gear with a 3.07. If a 4-speed is faster than a 3-speed, then, a true USABLE 6-speed will be much faster than the usable really only 5-speed in everyone's Viper! He is currently building NEW t-56 that has a custom main shaft( With additional oiling journals) and cluster shaft that allows the retention of the stock 1st-4th Gears while allowing the .8 5th and the .62 6th gear sets from some of the mustang and camaro t-56 trannies that have gear ratios similar to those on the Z-o6, 1st 2.97,2nd 2.02,3rd 1.43, 4th 1.00, 5th .80, 6th .62. Before this, you could not interchange the 5th and 6th gears because of the cluster shafts 1st gear ratio determining what 5th and 6th ratios you actually get.-> the .8 and .62 got underdriven beacuse the 2.66 on the cluster shaft would spin 5th and 6th faster than the 2.97 1st would. Anyway, he has rectified the problem by making custom shafts that accomodate 2.66 1st, 1.78 2nd 1.30 3rd, 1.00 4th, .8 5th and .62 6th. If anybody wants to go to http://orbitdevelopment.com/vipergears/gears.asp , you can play around and see that this is what Dodge should have done. $3,000.00 and your old trans as a core exchange will get you a NEW t-56 transmission with the ultimate gear ratios, a main shaft with additional oiling journals, carbon rings, cast iron shift forks, and a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. To inquire additional information, you can email George @ [email protected]. The o in zo6 is the letter o, not a zero.
    IMO 1. for road race guys this is huge for adding an additional gear( allowing a numerically higher gear ratio in the rear end for a higher percentage of time spent in the torque peak). 2. for HIGH HP freaks, they can go 238MPH in .62 6th with the STOCK 3.07(With the proper amount of HP, of course). 3. Guys with a stock car can now put in a 3.55 or 3.73 gear, have phenomenal torque multiplication without sacrificing top end speed! This is the Bomb! Paolo


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DgeViper1:
    Paolo...this is very interesting. Has there been any use of this tranny in a Viper thus far? I would love to see actual test results! Perhaps your going to have to take your car to a test track and tell us the results.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Dan, This ratio combination 2.66,1.78,1.3,1.0,.80,.62, has never been done in a t-56 Period!I might be getting one soon! I'll let you know how it goes! Maybe we'll drop it into my dad's car. I just know it has the most even/well spaced splits for the Viper trans so far. Road racers will love this development, so will top speed freaks because the car is now geared to go well over 220MPH while still living within the RPM limits the motor was designed to handle. Messley's 227 was in stock 5th gear/3.07 with a Caldwell motor at 7400RPM(I could be wrong about the 7400, but I know it was way above the stock 6200 RPM). I can't wait to try it out! Paolo
    P.S. As far as testing goes, the torque multiplication calculations alone scream, "PUT ME INTO THE VIPER!"



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    Default Re: Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

    We have been working on a similar solution that uses your stock tranny and just upgrades the 5th and 6th gears. We may either sell the parts in kit form, or upgrade transmissions sent to us. We expect the total tranny transformation to be around $2k. We'll keep you updated. If anyone is interested in this modification, please e-mail us. We are building a list so once this project has been completed, we can immediately begin doing the modification for our customers.

    Regards,
    Wayne (LTHL VPR)


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    Default Re: Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LTHL VPR:
    We have been working on a similar solution that uses your stock tranny and just upgrades the 5th and 6th gears. We may either sell the parts in kit form, or upgrade transmissions sent to us. We expect the total tranny transformation to be around $2k. We'll keep you updated. If anyone is interested in this modification, please e-mail us. We are building a list so once this project has been completed, we can immediately begin doing the modification for our customers.

    Regards,
    Wayne (LTHL VPR)

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hello Wayne! that's all were talking here is changing 5th and 6th to .8 and .62. Initially when we looked into the possibility of doing this, it looked like we could do the swap, according to the part #'s but it really does not work. That is why these special parts had to be made. By the way is your proposed 5th/6th gear set a one or a two piece setup. What do you think the stock 5th/6th set is, 1 or 2 piece? Paolo



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    Default Re: Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paolo Castellano:
    Dan, This ratio combination 2.66,1.78,1.3,1.0,.80,.62, has never been done in a t-56 Period!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    My Saleen S351R has the following gear ratios in it's T56:
    2.97 1st, 2.07 2nd, 1.43 3rd, 1.1 4th, .80 5th, .62 6th

    Which is pretty close to what your proposing.. The car's power level is about the same as a Viper and I can say I really like the gear spacing.




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    Default Re: Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mchafin:
    My Saleen S351R has the following gear ratios in it's T56:
    2.97 1st, 2.07 2nd, 1.43 3rd, 1.1 4th, .80 5th, .62 6th

    Which is pretty close to what your proposing.. The car's power level is about the same as a Viper and I can say I really like the gear spacing.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    M, I agree with what you are saying if you are talking about your average joe blow. One question I have for you is are you sure you sure you have a 1.1 for 4th? I have never seen a 1.1 4th gear ratio in a t-56 tranny (this is not to say that it is not possible,). Here are some helfpul facts:
    1.the Mustang Cobra-R 2.97,2.02,1.43,1.0,.8,.62 trans in a Viper would be @103MPH in 1.43 3rd gear @6000 RPM, shift into 1.0 4th, and you are at 4200RPM, now go to 6000 RPM in 1.0 4th and you are going 148 MPH===&gt; how many mph to get through 4th gear? Answer, 45 MPH ( That is shifting @ 6000 RPM).
    2. With what I am proposing, 6000 RPM in (stock)1.3 3rd gear you are going 114 MPH, shift into 4th and you are at 4625 RPM(A much better HP/Torque range than the 4200 RPM of the Cobra trans). Now, 6000RPM in 1.0 4th yields 148 MPH. Here, it takes ONLY 34 MPH to get through 4th gear as compared to 45 with the cobra trans! This is huge when you take 45/34, you get 1.3235-&gt; this means with your ratios, you are in 4th gear 32% (more MPH)longer than I will be! If we are equal drivers in equal cars, you would be getting a spanking because of 2 things: 1. the amount of MPH you have to go through to get through the gear, 2. God forbid if you short shift 3rd-4th with the Cobra tranny @5500 RPM(Where most Viper Owners shift), you will be going 95 MPH @ 3850 RPM(Even further out of the powerband!)
    Is this trans for everybody? NO! I am not saying every Viper owner should drop everything and go get this trans. But if any intelligent person understanding what I am saying here had the choice, they would, in a heartbeat, pick this new solution retaining the 1st-4th gears, while making 5th and 6th much more useable. Besides, 1. for the average Viper owner, the 2.97,2.02,1.43 ratios would have too much tire spin anyway. 2. the average road racer would NOT enjoy the prospect of such a long 4th gear and large split of the gears compared to this new solution. 3. High boost guys with lots of power would have WAY too much torque multiplication with the 2.97,2.02,1.43. ==&gt; Besides this Master rebuilder for Tremec who builds Corvette Race trannies is building this better geared Viper unit with additional oiling journals on the main shaft(ie better oiling properties, how much is that worth for longevity?)which is much better all the way around than just a stock unit! Paolo



  7. #7
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    Default Re: Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

    Manual transmissions are easy to rebuild.

    The real question is where are these gears coming from? and where can they be purchased?

    I could be wrong, but there is a good chance they are/were OEM somewhere.

    If not, I do know for a fact, that a lot of people are selling these gears - so they must be readily available somewhere.

    I have found that cruising 105 mph around the outback in NV, the stock 6th gear is just fine. However, I would be tempted for the moded ratios....




  8. #8
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    Default Re: Gentlemen, now get the transmission ratios Dodge SHOULD have put into the Viper!

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by tomatper:
    [B]Manual transmissions are easy to rebuild.

    The real question is where are these gears coming from? Tom, I believe the gears are coming from the Cobra-R 6-speed trans. The thing here is that the .8 5th and the.62 6th do not mesh literally or figuratively with the stock 1st-4th Viper Transmission ratios. George has made a special main shaft that accomodates both. They can be purchased from George, He has incorporated the cost of the gears, shaft and labor into a core exchange + 3K for a BRAND NEW transmission with these ratios! Paolo




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