Viper Seat Belt Warning...

[cstegall]

All,

PrimeTime(Thursday-3-7-02) had an interesting story that concerns Viper owners that have 1995-1996-1997 and 2002 cars. The story concerned a man that was hit broadside in his Chrysler minivan and was ejected from the vehicle during a rollover. The man died and the police reported that he was NOT buckled into the seat with the stock belt. The victims family sued Chrysler,etc. and the court ruled in favor of the plaintiff. The jury found that the man WAS buckled into the seat and that during the rollover it was apparent that he had pushed against the beltbutton on the seatbelt latch and the belt had released...ejecting him from the car. If you will look at the abcnews.com website you will see a list of Dodge-Chrysler cars that have this Gen3 belt system. The above listed Vipers fall in this group. Chrysler has disavowed the problems with these belts but many,many studies have shown that they are VERY prone to accidental release.
You guys might want to research this subject and speak with your local dealer. No recalls as of this date but I am a firm believer that personal/family safety should not need a recall to force us to act. Especially in a car as powerful as ours.

C.Stegall

 

[Brad Manhattan Beach]

Here's a link to the article ABC Primetime Seatbelt Defect

and

List of Chrysler Cars with faulty Gen 3 seatbelts

Brad

 

[jimandela]

I understand 95-97 but why a 2002?
did they have leftovers from 95-97 they needed to get rid
off?
because my 2001 is not listed i guess i am okay. but the
2002 one seems odd.


JIM

 

[MES]

Can someone explain EXACTLY how it can become released other than being pushed buy a flying arm or something

 

[cstegall]

MES,

During a rollover...what happens in a car is almost unbelievable. The body alone contorts to an extent that only if captured on film, can man re-create. Crash dummies are the only tests that seem to be able to approach what happens to the human body during the rollover accident. The problem(as shown in the tv segment)was that Chrysler had received an overwhelming amount of complaints about the fact that the release button on the earlier stock belts were too hard to use(placed too far deep into the belt latch)and caused the occupants to "waste" too much time getting in and out of the car. Problem is that during the new design(Gen3)Chrysler had the release button pushed too far out to not get in the way of movement around the latch. During a catastrophic wreck, as in a rollover, the Gen3 belt is subject to an easy release from the occupants body,items moving within the car,seat shift,etc.
I imagine that we will see a recall issue shortly from Chrysler. I have a feeling that this problem is NOT going to go away quietly.
Viper owners should be concerned if their cars are among those in question.

CStegall

 

[Newport Viper]

Switch sides with the latch (red button). Turn them around. No way you can hit button then. Belt goes over the red button.
you then release with your right thumb. Try it. simple

 

[BigsViper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Newport Viper:
Switch sides with the latch (red button). Turn them around. No way you can hit button then. Belt goes over the red button.
you then release with your right thumb. Try it. simple
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the preceding scenario, wouldn't you risk your hip sliding into and releasing the button? I'd just get them replaced.

 

[cstegall]

jimandela,

Interesting question about the "jump" to the '02 model. I spoke with someone that is familiar with the situation and was told that there are still some Gen3 belts in Chrysler inventory and they probably want to reduce the amount before the new model comes out in '03.

Frank,

You are very correct...I looked at a friends car and he has the Gen3 belt as well. I was amazed how easy it was to trip the latch and release the belt. It would really put a scare in me if my car had these belt systems. Fortunately my '01 is not one of the years listed.

 

[cstegall]

All,

Bump...

Just wanted to make sure that everyone got a chance to see this post...

CStegall

 

[Tom Welch]

Hey Clark,

Didnt you almost buy a roll bar and 5 way harnesses?? but wanted to use the stock seatbelts?..maybe I have you confused with someone else.

Im gonna sleep better every nite now that I have seen that article and know that I do NOT use the stock belts!

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[cstegall]

Tom,

Yep...that was me. I STILL love your rollbar setup and have not gotten one yet. I did install some TeamTech 5 pts. Here in Texas they get real picky when you do not use your stock belts...many tickets are given locally concerning seat belt use and the State requires that you keep them in your car.
Fortunately, my belts are not of the Gen3 series.
Great to hear from you again...

Clark

 

[Tom Welch]

Its a shame that with all of the technology which exists today, cars still use restraint systems of 30 years ago.

With all of the high speed driving that I do combined with the seemingly ever increasing "dizzy" drivers on the roads, I don't hesitate to take an extra 3 seconds to fasten my harness(which is the same one that John Force uses in his 4 second funny car).

Ive got a roll bar and a restraint system that is approved by ALL major racing sanctioning bodies. I will take my chances fighting the $ 50.00 ticket in court.

Best of luck to you all. Be safe.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[Ron]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Oddly enough, the part numbers for the seat belt latches (4848 718 right and 4848 719 left) are the same for 1997, 2000 and 2001 GTS's (and possibly all other years but too lazy to look them all up) so apparently you just can't go out and order a 2001 version and expect it not to be GENIII.

Now that he has the ACR belt issue solved, it looks like we need Viper Wizard to delve into this one too. After testing mine and seeing how easy it is to release, I'm ready to order the new style....</FONT f>

 

[cstegall]

VettetoViper,

The best way to check your belt system is to visually inspect the release button on the latch. The Gen3 series button sticks up VERY high, therefore allowing for an easier accidental release. The "better" belt system should have a button release that is more flush with the latch making it harder to accidentaly release the belt.
Hope this helps,
CStegall

 

[Ray W]

Saw the show and checked my Dakota's ('00.'01) right then because we drive them daily.Didn't look at the Viper not the
right year '98.Today just happened to look at the GTS belts
and visually it has the bad belts. I couldn't find the part#
on them any help would be appriecated. Thanks.

 

[Ray W]

Nevermind the #'s got in the car slid slightly down in the seat
and released the belt with my elbow on the first try ! I will
wear my 5 points for now. You would not believe how easy it was
to do repeatedly.

 

[cstegall]

Ray W,

Exactly why I wanted to make sure that everyone saw this post..thanks for your input.

CStegall

 

[Viper Wizard]

According to DC's Press Release sent to all Dealers, There is nothing wrong with the belts?
I'm sure this will be like the 5-Points, it will be at least a year off before we all have an answer.

 

[Ron]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Chuck,

Rather than wait the year, is there a non GENIII latch that we could purchase on our own?

Since some Vipers seem to have had this installed at the factory, I would think we'd be able to order the better design as a replacement part, correct?

Thanks! </FONT f>

 

[Viper Wizard]

Ray don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling everyone what DC told all Dealers to tell their customers? Yes I have tryed it and they do release easily. NOW WHAT is the question!

 

[cstegall]

Viper Wizard,

I am sure that Ray did not mean anything negative about your research on the seatbelt issue. I for one really appreciate what you did and do have a couple of statements...if DC sent a notice that the belts were not bad than where did the list that ABC got come from? and...this is NOT the same as an issue governing harnesses...these belts are systems that have been installed according to Federal mandate and therefore do not fall under the "hey...they are o.k. fellows..don't worry" legislative branch. I would like to see this situation addressed by DC as I intend on driving my car with my family in it. Unfortunately, I was involved in a very extensive auto accident a few years back and it was the seatbelt/airbag system that saved my life. When I get in the car and buckle up...I want to know that the design is the one that is going to hold me in...in a crash I will take my chances in the seat.

Thanks for your research,
CStegall

 

[Ray W]

Viper Wizard, no attack or flame intended. Simply seems any year
may have these belts. I don't have a solution other than to order
new latches and hope the ones I want show up. Not going to whine
to Dodge,design flaws happen. No harm no foul.Also thanks for the part #'s.

 

[Ray W]

Ron,Yes the 95 button looks the same the red button is just down deeper.The raised button is very obvious just looks like it sticks up too far.

 

[cstegall]

All,

Thanks guys for all of your input. I am surprised that we have not heard from a lot of the more vocal members on this board. I,like you, love my Viper and all I am asking for is an explanation from DC concerning the Gen3 belt system and any issues involving early/quick/accidental release. I have always felt safe in the Viper,even with its incredible power band,and I would really like DC to address this issue before it just "goes away". Thanks DC for reading...I personally await a response.


CStegall
'01 GTS
SRT-10 on order

 

[Viper Wizard]

OK I went through all of the Viper Parts Books[92-02] and this is what I found:

92-96 RT's:
Part #4643954 Right MSRP$32.25
Part #4643955 Left MSRP$35.50

96-02 GTS's & 97-02 RT's:
Part #4848718 Right MSRP$26.00
Part #4848719 Left MSRP$26.25

I can't tell you witch one to order?

 

[Ray W]

Originally posted by Viper Wizard:
According to DC's Press Release sent to all Dealers, There is nothing wrong with the belts?

Wizard, Hard for a dead guy to tell you his seat belt came off.

I am sure you can find one of these cars, with the belts, to try
for yourself.

FYI everyone else,check all years all cars. My 1995 does not have
them but my 1998 does.

The red release button sticks out about 1/2" above the black portion and can be released without pushing down into the black
portion.

 

[Ron]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Ray,

Does it look like your 1995 latch and buckle is the same as the 1998 except that the red button is higher?</FONT f>

 

[Viper Wizard]

OK flame suit off!

The statement from DC says that "The Gen 3 belts save lives but only when they are properly used every single time."

"The Gen 3 seat belts meet all appropriate safety standards."

"The accident highlighted by Primetime demonstrates the tragic life or death consequences of seat belt use. The occupant would have escaped serious injury if he had been belted. The laws of physics dictate that an accident of this severity would have left evidence of seat belt use."

Gen 3 seat belts were first used on 1993 model year.

Gen 4 seat belts are only designed for use in Dodge Durangos and Dakotas.

The lawsuit highlighted by Primetime is being appealed, the physical evidence demonstrates the occupant [Bart Moran] was not wearing his belt.

Sounds like an answer to me?

 

[Ron]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Looks like I'll have to install the Team Tech's.

Thanks Chuck for the info.</FONT f>

 

[cstegall]

Viper Wizard,

I appreciate your report on the DC response,however,have you had a chance to study the actual case and the results from the lawsuit? Obviously,a ruling for the plaintiff in a civil suit does not necessarily mean an "overwhelming" decision on the part of the jury(some Viper owner/attorneys could chime in here) and more often than not a case such as this is usually appealed. I posted this issue, and will continue my efforts, to be sure and let all Viper owners know about the "potential" problem and hopefully someone at DC will discuss a solution and not just promote a response from the lawyers.

No flame here...just a concerned response.

CStegall