added some new toys to the Viper tonight, and added problems too...

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I added tonight:

Sean Roe Fan kit
Smooth tubes
Filters
Anode Radiatior Cap

After I got these 4 things installed, I started the car, it ran fine, but when I came back to the car...the "malfunction" (check engine) light was on! at first I figured it was the filters/tubes and the system got wind of the change. So, I tried to reset the computer. No change, light remained on even before car was started. then I disconnected the fan kit, figuring maybe I tapped the wrong wires-triple checked, they should be right! Again, no change in light. after this, I pulled the positive cable again, only this time I used an old trick I learned with imports, which is connecting/disconnecting the power to car quickly 5 or so times. LIGHT OFF! But, after re-installing the Fan Kit, it doesnt APPEAR to work!?! what temp is it supposed to kick on? Were the tubes/filters the cause of the light in the first place? or is it related to the fan? BYW, I reconnected fan and it didnt come on this time, and car has 197 miles on it.

P.S.- I found (1) body shim, shaped like a "U" in the front fascia, anything to worry about? I heard it bouncing around while installing a front bumper gaurd, and retreived it through the fog light inner fender hole. any place I should look to see if it came from there?
 

TOOOFST

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My fan only comes on when she's over 220.HHot days and long drives,the fan kicks,most of the time its off.
When I pull the battery cable to restart the computer it takes a good hr.Now I can clear it with the Roe software(new palm pilot model).Nice call on that 02.
 

Ron

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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">No way the tubes or filters set the light.

Perhaps you dislodged a connector while installing filters (intake temp sensor, throttle position sensor, etc.) or as you suspect the fan kit wiring was wrong.

As I remember, fan is on at 207 and off at 197. </FONT f>
 
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hmm... I suspect it may not be the Fan kit, as it didnt set it off a second time. However, I did disconnect the intake sensor when i pulled out the air box. But, the car was in "ACC" mode...I didnt think the ECU was active durring "ACC", Only "ON"...?
 

Ulysses

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Think back. Did you start the car before re-installing the sensor connector to the air box? If you did, it will trip the CE light. It will stay on even after you reconnect the connector.

Some have even forgotten to re-connect it since it drops out of sight after disconnecting.

At any rate, you can clear the light by disconnecting the battery and waiting a while before connecting, which will clear any other trouble codes that you might have, or you can have a Viper Tech clear it for you. I would have the tech clear it since he/she can read all codes back and determine if it's a true problem. OR if you did start it up BEFORE reconnecting the sensor, drive it for a few miles and it will clear itself.
 

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Dan,
Are you going to track your car?
I like the filters and tubes mod.
But why the fan?
My 01 runs just fine without a fan kit.

Keep me posted on your mods.

Good luck

JIM
 
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No, I did not start the car with the sensor disconnected.


The fan kit is used to prevent heat soak, AFTER you turn off the engine. has nothing to do with overheating. it is one of those "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" mods.
 

Sean Roe

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Daniel,
Having had it happen in our shop many times (engine light comes on after filter installation), I'm 99% sure it's the intake air temperature sensor connection. Plug and unplug it a few times (key off). I don't know what it is with these cars (compared to others), but they seem to be too sensitive to resistance changes in the connections, or just have bad connectors. We'll get a check engine light for something (intake air temperature sensor circuit open, injector circuit open, etc) that was disconnected and re-connected with the key off or battery disconnected. We plug and unplug the connector a couple times (never any sign of corrosion or debris), clear the code and that's it. Our GTS sets the light almost every time we do something on the engine. The diagnostic software and laptop has been a useful tool in that regard.

Andrew & Jim,
Regarding the fan kit, it's for after the engine is shut down. The factory wiring turns off the radiator fan when the engine turns off, even if the engine is very hot and needs it on.
As a test, the next few times you drive you car more than about 15 minutes, note the temperature when you shut it off. About 2 minutes later, turn the key back on, check the temperature and see if it's cooler or hotter. Keep in mind that it will vary depending on how hot the engine was, if the a/c was on, ambient air temperature and how hard you were running it before shutting it off. Try the same test after running the engine harder and compare your results.

If Vipers had iron blocks and heads, it wouldn't be a problem to see the temperature spike much higher after shutting it off. But, the aluminum block and heads on these cars don't do so well when overheated. The fan kit is designed to kick in when the temperature would otherwise get too high (causing minor fluid boil and component stress) after shut down. Basically, it's a safety device. If you don't have one, Dodge has a good reputation for repairing overheated engines while the car is under warranty.
(not trying to scare you, that's just the way it is)
smile.gif


Sean

edit - PS.
Daniel, that shim is probably a headlight shim. There are a number of them on each stud under the lamp. That one probably fell out during setup at the factory.

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Sean Roe on 06-14-2002 at 06:59 AM</font>
 

jimandela

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Final GTS,
did you go with the timer for the fan kit too.
The roe website recommends it for 2000+ vipers

Sean,
Sounds like a good idea.

Final GTS,
How hard was the fan install?
Might need a some help....don't want to mess it up.


thanks
JIM
 

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I put the Roe Fan Controller in my car. It was very easy to install, and I don't like messing with wires. Install time was 20 min max, and that's only because I triple checked before installing the alligator clamps on my wiring harness. I did not go with the timer since it is not recommended for 96's. However, I highly recommend the fan kit to anyone. It's a great product that does it's job well. I didn't like turing the Viper off on a hot day with the fan running, knowing heat soak was soon to follow.
 

EXECMALIBU

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How does the fan help heat soak in the aluminum heads and block once the water pump stops turning?? Isnt the water trapped in the hottest parts! The heads and block??

The fan would only cool the water in the radiator and blow air on the front of the motor.. This may cool the theromstat housing giving a false indication that the inner parts of the motor are cooler.. I would think that some type of pump would be required to circulate the water?

I always let my engine cool down after a hard run before turning it off.. An old pre-intercooled Porsche Turbo problem
 
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JIMANDELA- Yes, I got the timer as well. I will install it for you if you would like. Dont worry, I am EXTREMELY anal about working on sports cars, I only do top-notch work, and I treat someone elses car no different. I dont have a "throw in, connect, and HOPE" philosophy...lol

EXECMALIBU- Cold water sinks. the sinking effect will cause a slow circulation of it's own. Hot water willflow out of the engine into the top radiator hose, and cool water will flow out the bottom back into the engine.

BTW, Thanks everyone for the info, I solved all problems yesterday. it was indeed the tube/filter change that tripped the computer, but after the old disconnect/reconnect of the computer to confuse it, and then an hour of no battery time, everythings back to normal. (YAY, LEARN MODE! Fun...NOT)

JIMANDELA- I can also help you hardwire your V1 if you would like... I did mine last night. took a long *** time and required ripping apart the interior a little... but results were worth it. V1 now sits quiet up top with no visible wires going to it, automatically turns on when car is in the "ON" position, and the relocation display is mounted on the steering column.
 

Sean Roe

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Glad to hear you got the light worked out Daniel.

Regarding how effective the fan kit is, there were several wanting verification when we first introduced it about 2&1/2 years ago. We did a birrage of tests, taking temperatures with a digital surface contact pyrometer, and put the results on the website (not sure if it's archived). Bottom line, after a couple of minutes of fan run time, the cylinder head temperature cooled just as much at the back of the head as it did at the front, and several places in between. Water and aluminum are both good temperature conductors. It works.

Sean
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean Roe:

Regarding the fan kit, it's for after the engine is shut down. The factory wiring turns off the radiator fan when the engine turns off, even if the engine is very hot and needs it on.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sean, help me understand this. If the motor is shut down, the water pump is not running and there is no coolant circulating. It appears to me that the only thing you are cooling is the radiator.

On my race car, there is an electric water pump as well as an electric fan that can both be run while the motor is not running and of course, that works great because there is water circulation. I just can't see how running the fan alone can do much good in reducing 'heat soak' What am I missing?
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I just can't see how running the fan alone can do much good in reducing 'heat soak' What am I missing?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Buzz word is "Natural Circulation" This will occur as long as the heat sink(radiator)is higher than the heat source(engine).
 

EXECMALIBU

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The already very hot water trapped in the heads and block would definately get much hotter when the engine is shut down!!..By the time the water is cooled down enough by the air to water heat exchanger (radiator) that caused a thermal dynamic flow. The damage would have already been done!

In a nuclear plant the external cooling water is already very cold 40-50 degree (sea water) vs the super heated water cooling the reactor (steam @225+ degrees).This is also a water to water heat exchanger which is much more efficiant. Blowing 60 degree air on a hot piece of steel takes minutes to cool it down as opposed to putting it in 60 water. It would take only seconds to cool down!!

Regarding checking the heads with a heat sensing device. I would expect that the area where the cool water enters the heads would cool down before the area the water exits.

The fact that the heads cool down uniformally would indicate to me that they are being cooled by normal heat dissipation to the air..

Just my opinions!!
 
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you are missing a couple points: First, the sensor is mounted on the TOP of the engine, where the HEAT will be. Second, Aluminum transfers heat VERY well, cooling or heating on one side of the engine will transfer to the opposite wide VERY rapidly. Due to (2) the sensor will be very accurate at gauging the temp of the engine as a whole. third, the cooling proporties of a radiator are very good, rapid cooling WILL occur. I just witnesses it yesterday! I turned my engine off, read about 200 or so, fan kicked on, came back four minutes later, temp dropped to about 150!
 

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