For those who will trade-in for SRT... trade value could be.....

jwwiii

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I just sold my 01' RT-10. I loved it and will miss it. Why did I sell now, especially with the beautiful fall weather around the corner!

Trade in time could get very ugly!

If approximately 1,500 SRT's were snapped up by current qualified Viper owners, you know at least 50% are going to trade in on the SRT. That puts about 750 Vipers on the used market in short order. If your dealer sold say.. 5 SRT's, and three trade in and it's winter, that dealer is going to have a lot of dough sitting on the showroom floor at a time when he wants cars that sell (AWD's, pick-ups, Caravans, etc). That could drop trade values 5 grand or more! Goodbye great certificate bargaining power ($500 over invoice, or whatever your deal was).

This is just MY speculation, not fact of course. When you figure in a bad stock market, and that only a very small pecentage of the US population can afford a new Viper (top 1-3% or so?) how many are going to have the space and the cash to have both? Very few fortunate folks.

It is going to be a long, Viperless fall for me. I think that selling now was the thing to do while the driving weather offers another couple of beautiful months to the buyer. A glut of used Vipers at wintertime could really put a big hurt on Viper values.

This is just MY gut feeling, but it is definitely worth thinking about with snow and the Holidays around the corner.

We'll see what happens. Meanwhile, I am going to try to make some interest and have plenty of time to spruce up the ol' garage in anticipation of my SRT.

What do you think about the values at trade-in time?

Cheers,

Jim
 

Mike Brunton

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Jim,

I agree with you 100% and I think you made a very wise move.

For people that think the SRT will not affect previous Viper values, it most certainly will. The C5 killed C4 values - convertibles and coupes. I guess that the SRT will drop GTS/RT10 values by around $10k. Yes, I think cars that are in the mid 50's now will be in the mid 40's in 6 months.

Then again, this discussion is only germane to folks considering trading their Vipers in or selling them in the near future.
 

MiamiJeff

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My guess (since that's what any of us posting in this thread are doing) is that RT/10 and GTS trade in values will not be hit as hard as some fear since the classic design of these vehicles is so very different from (and better looking than) the new SRT.

I would further guess however that the GTS might hold its value a tiny bit better than an RT/10 simply because some who want to buy a roadster/convertible will find the convenience of the SRT's real folding top takes a bit of lustre off the RT/10.
 

Mike Brunton

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One point you brought up MiamiJeff - that the SRT will not affect GTS prices because it is not a coupe and because it is not as aggressive looking.

This same thing was said of the 996 Porsche, but it still significantly dropped values on 993's. It happened with the C5 but C4's are still worth alot less.

I think the average buyer isn't going to think of the GTS as the "looker". I think we are foolishly convincing ourselves that this is the case. Of course this is only a matter of opinion, however historical data has shown that regardless of what folks who own the older version think of the new car, the old car undoubtedly depreciates alot upon arrival of the new. I would hate for someone to hold off selling thinking their GTS will be worth more later.

I'd be willing to make a bet with someone about this - anyone got a few grand they want to risk?
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Frank 03SRT

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Something else to consider:

1. The pre-SRTs will be "dumped" on the market over a period of 1-2 years, and not instantly, which might help them from depreciating that much.

2. Since it appears to be the opinion of many that the pre-SRT is much better looking, and the SRT will be a flop, there may be a short time of depreciation, followed by a rebound in used prices.

Whatever the case, I am now seriously considering selling by GTS before arrival of the SRT.
 

SRT10

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MOST cars depreciate normally.The prices of used Vipers has already dropped substantially.This opens up a new market for buyers who cannot afford to spend $80k+ for a new Viper. It may take another 10 or 20 yrs for the current classic Viper to actually appreciate in value. Also, there are only 1500 SRTs' being built. Of those how many will keep both cars?How many are looking to sell their SRTs' when they get them? Who knows, but it should not have any affect when you trade your current Viper in being its such a limited production vehicle.
Cornsnake, your new SRT might not be delivered for a whole year
how can you live Viperless?
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Craig 201 MPH

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Keller:
Just wanted to let all of you know that this conversation is making my mouth water
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although I know it has the opposite effect on you current viper owners. I've been waiting around for this opprotunity for a while and seeing that I have NO interest in the SRT because of asthetics the GTS is the sports car of my dreams! Sell away because I'm buying.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yep, me too, I can't wait to see what prices will be in 5-7 years after I'm done school, working and ready to buy. Could we be seeing mid-high 20's for gen1 cars with 30K+ miles? I think so.
 

Keller

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Craig 201 MPH
No need for the smart*** antics. I am more than able (financialy) and old enough (27) and well enough educated to purchase a Viper, just smart enough to wait around for the price drops. Have a good day
 

Craig 201 MPH

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Keller:
Craig 201 MPH
No need for the smart*** antics. I am more than able (financialy) and old enough (27) and well enough educated to purchase a Viper, just smart enough to wait around for the price drops. Have a good day

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

***?????

Can you please state how this relates to what I said? I was agreeing that it's good for people buying because it will bring prices down. I'd hate to imply that you couldn't afford 40-45K for a car. Geez I'm not dumb enough to miss your sig to see you have a new S2K. Maybe I totally missed your point.
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Keller

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Sorry Craig it seemed as if you where saying that I was some 16 yr old typing away about his dream car? I guess I misunderstood your reply and took it as sarcasm. BTW this has nothing to do with me once owning a Supra at all, I've always wanted a Viper and infact I sold my Supra to get a Viper.
Once again sorry.
Josh
 

Craig 201 MPH

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Keller:
Sorry Craig it seemed as if you where saying that I was some 16 yr old typing away about his dream car? I guess I misunderstood your reply and took it as sarcasm. BTW this has nothing to do with me once owning a Supra at all, I've always wanted a Viper and infact I sold my Supra to get a Viper.
Once again sorry.
Josh
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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If anything I'm the 16 year old kid (well 19) What I responded with is actually what I thinkt he cars will be going for in 5-7 years. high milage GEN1's are already in the low/mid 30's.

No prob though, all is well. I checked out your supra, d@mn that's nice. Anniversay addition?
 

Keller

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Yep Anniversary, it was my baby. I miss it dearly, I am really craving the HP that I used to have and the S2000 just does not come close to meeting my needs.
Now that I've had my brain fart for the day, back to the subject matter of the initial post. At first glance you would believe that used pricing on Gen II's would be greatly effected in fact that's what peolpe like me are betting. You might find as a seller that more people are actually looking to purchase a Gen II than first assumed. It is a highly desirable car at 40-50k. In return this could balance the books, drive up demand, and hold resale values steady.

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Keller on 08-18-2002 at 05:29 PM</font>
 
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jwwiii

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Since I am the one who first posted this thought I thought I might add that we have been fortunate enough to have Vipers bought new that held their value so well.

I certainly hope this remains true. Vipers two to three years old (as in 98'-00') have held very well with low miles (4-7K) with trade-ins in the high 50K to 60K plus value. I think that our Vipers are still bargains, and worth very high $ considering the rarity of them.

Please don't misstake my post as any fact; it is just that there will be a fair number traded in. In wintertime, there will be bargains on used Vipers for sure. I only wanted to say that "they are coming" and we should be aware of the market at trade time (if that is what you intend).

The Gen 1 and Gen II are classics! The SRT is coming, and promises a new level of performance.

Just something to think about!

Jim
 

gtsviper

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If all first year SRT-10's are sold to current Viper owners, what are non-Viper owners going to buy if they want a Viper in 2003? Some SRT'S will be available but at a premium so the only options may be to wait or buy a used one. A short supply of new cars means demand for pre-owned could hold steady or increase.
 

George Murray

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No severe price drop yet, at least based on two sales (this month) of Gen II cars at Virginia dealer-only auctions:

2000 GTS/ACR, less than 10K miles, sold at auction for $60K.

99 GTS, silver, 45K miles, repossession. Kind of beat-up...side sills scratched and pitted, tires worn, wheels scratched, front bumper cap gouged and pitted, then a ghetto re-paint of bumper cap. Visible interior wear, but not horrible. $43.5K. Dealer who bought it asking $49.9K. I think it looks better now.

I would have bought the 99 at that 43.5K price had I known about it. Not bad for a 99 "******" that by all acoounts rand and drove fine at time of sale.

97 GTS, red, 12K or so miles. Sold for $50K at auction, but that was about two months back.

Dealers in this area generally try to "steal" Vipers, but it appears they're still paying high $ for these cars. I'm always looking (I'm a dealer, too), but my buyers prefer the 5 -10 year old F-150 and Ram 1500 4x4s I generally stock. I think a "Viper" to most my buyers is the brand of alarm their younger brothers have on their stupid little chainsaw rice-burner Hondakiddyputtputtcars.
 

Keller

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Just wanted to let all of you know that this conversation is making my mouth water
bounce.gif
although I know it has the opposite effect on you current viper owners. I've been waiting around for this opprotunity for a while and seeing that I have NO interest in the SRT because of asthetics the GTS is the sports car of my dreams! Sell away because I'm buying.
 

Mike Brunton

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gtsviper:
If all first year SRT-10's are sold to current Viper owners, what are non-Viper owners going to buy if they want a Viper in 2003? Some SRT'S will be available but at a premium so the only options may be to wait or buy a used one. A short supply of new cars means demand for pre-owned could hold steady or increase.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think the situation of SRT's being unavailable will not last very long. Consider that the interest on the SRT's will probably pick up in a BIG way once they start hitting the streets, and once the numbers start coming out - around November/December. In the 2-3 months after the car's release, I expect just about every magazine will be doing comparisons to other cars like the SL55, Z06, 911 Turbo, maybe the GT-2 or what not. This will cause considerable interest in the SRT around the December-March time frame.

2004 SRT's should start coming out around June... so for a guy who read a magazine in January and now is intersted in the SRT, his wait time is not going to be a year, it's going to be a few months. The GenII Vipers will have been removed from the spotlight, and there will be a flood of them on the market right around wintertime, and the delay for an SRT might not be as long as some think. I think this will combine to create a soft GenI/GenII market.

While it's true that many will prefer the old styling, I think many people will opt for more power and performance over styling. I think the performance gap will be bigger than the numbers would suggest. I honestly prefer C4 styling to C5 styling. But would I buy even a 96 Corvette instead of a C5? No way... I'd "put up" with the newer styling to have the newer car. Not to mention there is an attraction to having the latest and greatest. I think the ACR's will be hit hardest, as their MSRP is pretty much on par with the SRT. How much will a dealer have to sell an ACR for considering an SRT is the same money?

The floor on Viper prices is going to be determined by their parts value, IMO. I don't think we'll see Vipers in the 20k range ever really... because they are worth alot more than that in parts. But I DO think the newer cars - like the GTS's will take a sharp dip in value due to the SRT's availability.

It's all speculation on everyone's end... but hey that's what discussion boards are about right? JWIII had a VERY good point. If you head to your dealer in December, ready to get your SRT that he's making a very thin profit on, be prepared for a shock on what they offer on a trade. They may have multiple Vipers coming in on trade, in a market they feel will be soft, in the dead of winter. I predict alot of ridiculous offerings on trade-ins.
 

SRTRICK

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I generally agree with Mike about this, I "pre-traded" my 2000 RT/10 for the SRT last spring so I would be far ahead of the bulge in the market. This worked really well for me as I got an excellent trade in value for my car, and it worked well for the dealer as he didn't have to invest any money in my car. This actually worked so well that he later did the same thing with other buyers. The only thing to watch is the timing of the arrival of the new SRT as there may be a limited time that the state will allow you to carry over the trade value against the sales tax. We may have to do an interim trade due to my early timing.
I think that the RT/10's will take the bigger hit among the 1998 - 2001 models, but the older cars will stay at similar ratios to their current differential, whatever that is. I also think that the market for recent ACR's will be tough. I would assume that there will be few 2002's on the market because these were purchased long after the SRT was announced & I can't imagine that anyone would get a 2002 expecting to lose big $ on a short term ownership.
 
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jwwiii

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Mike, Mako, (and everone who has so far responded);

Thanks for contemplating and commenting on my personal predictions. The economy and approaching Midwest winter is why I sold now. And yes, I do see rediculous trade offers from dealers who have us over a barrel when our shiny new cars are right before our eyes.

It is not that the dealers are out to hurt us intentionally; they need to make a buck and are going to have to sit on some expensive, slow moving inventory.

I hope SRT buyers will make the right decision and get the most they can for their used Vipers in a way that makes them comfortable. I have lost too many times by waiting to sell something I thought had more value; I have been frequently dissapointed.

Please keep responding. This will effect us all, and is an important issue in my mind (and hopefully to other Viper brethren as well).

Jim
 

Lawrenzo

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Why all this talk about trading them in?? Doesn't anybody just retail it out themselves any more?

The only reason I traded in my Vette was because it was a lease, and I would have had to "buy" it from GMAC(and pay sales tax) and then turn around and resell it. If I owned it outright I would never even think of trading it in. Better to put the $5-6K in my pocket I say
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By the way-- Bill P. gave me a great trade value for my Vette- he has buyers that appreciate clean cars and are willing to resell them at reasonable profits(unlike the California **** I encountered)
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Two things to consider:

1.The price of the new Snake will be substantially higher than the current. In the past this has kept prices up on exotic cars.

2. In talking to alot of dealers , most of us are not getting in alot of trades. I will be hard pressed to even get 25% of our customers to trade in their cars. Many have already sold them, or in most cases , they are keeping their current model.

These are only two items, but I firmly believe we have prices close to the bottom, and there are real reasons why they should stabilize or even go up. With only 1500 cars, and they are all sold, where are folks going to go that decide they want a Viper--- I think alot will look to the used market. This is based on what happened with alot of folks who wanted RT-10s with windows in 97. When there wasn't any supply, they decided to get an older model, as they had already convinced themselves they wanted a Snake. We have made some sales , recently, with folks who wanted a 2003 , and when they found out that it would be nearly impossible to get one ( at a normal price ), they decided to get a 2002/2001 and plan on trading it in for a 2004 or 2005.

We will all see who is correct in the future,and perception often overrules reality. If alot of folks start dumping their cars because they think there are going to be alot on the market, that alone can depress a market. At this point I would think the market is going to be fairly stable, and I personally wish we wre getting more trade-ins, as we are going to be hard pressed to have alot of trade-ins at present.
 
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jwwiii

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Bill P;

I am truly happy that only 25% of your SRT customers will trade in! No cinicism implied; I am a very fortunate person that has neither the room nor the desire to keep my SRT. In a VERY SMALL market of folks in this price range, I am very impressed that that percentage will keep their Vipers.

If most of the 25% sold, what approximate price did they get for what year and model,and with what mileage? No flame intended, just fantastic economics for you! I pay cash (fortunately) no lease and no loan. I find 25% to be an unabtainable figure in this market.

I still suggest to sell now; unless of course you can title, insure, and store two Vipers. If you can, more power to ya'.

Your clientele must be awesome (as are the testimonies), and I am thrilled for you. This is honest and respectful comment.

I hope you all are in the 25%.

Sincerely,

Jim
 
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