An open forum for Roe Supercharged Viper owners/installers

[SUN RA KAT]

Since my last post I have had some problems with codes being thrown and sometimes running real rough, too. It only happens after I have been running for a while and I shut my car off for a few minutes and then restarting it again. Then it throws a code or codes within a block.

I took my Viper to my Viper Tech's home on Sunday & my Viper Tech went over everything and found everything the way it is supposed to be - ground wire & injector connectors on tight, he told me to call Sean on Monday. I drove home and once again my Viper ran perfectly and felt more smooth and more powerfull than it ever has and no codes were thrown.

I called Sean and we discussed the fuel injector clips as being a probable source of my problem. When my Viper Tech checked the injector clips, he probably reseated them so they were making better contact, which got rid of my problem. Sean suggested that when the engine is cool to pull each fuel injector clip off and squeeze it together with needle nose pliers to make it clip harder on the fuel injector when it is clipped back on. This makes good sense to me. I will do this and report on how well this works.

 

[TFAST4U]

SUN RA KAT,

Have your Viper Tech install the clips. Than you will not have to think about the injectors again. Thanks for the update.
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Varanus,

I am not Jerry ( great guy ), I am Chris Napolitano - TFAST4U. Your 1/4 time can get down to 11.1, you can do it. What sean said is true. I took the Viper back to Sean and it all went down as Sean said it did. Check out the thread on the M2 Crew at the V10 Nationals. It will help answer some of your questions.
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Sean,

What you said is true. Can you get me a good price on injectors?

 

[fuelman]

Chris it was great meeting you, thank you for blocking traffic and helping us so much on our journey to Bowling Green. I know that Larry and Sean are going to get your Viper flying straight. I saw the look on your face Saturday when we finally dialed my supercharger in, and my pretty stock cream puff started pulling those low 11s on street tires, I am sure high 10s are very possible with sticky tires. With anything new there are always a lot nay sayers and people that want their cars to behave like a stocker, but it is important to remember that we are making more than 600 fly wheel horsepower on a street car, most manufactures don't build cars with this much power because they know that they will require a lot of tuning, sometimes constant tuning. I drove my car back part of the way yesterday, it ran great. Sean's system is top notch and I am a decent mechanic, but I knew that when I started having small issues I needed a tuner (Macedo Motorsports.) I am sure Sean could have fit me in, but Larry's shop is close to me and his reputation is excellent. Anyone that saw my car or Cudaman's car make run after run all weekend at the V-10 Nationals can attest to his skill and the quality of the Roe Super charger. The Viper is a unique car, this is what makes them great they are all slighlty different, and tuning them with this much power is going to be slightly different on every car. My car rocks.

 

[1TONY1]

sun ra kat, Do you have clips on the injector connectors now ?

 

[TFAST4U]

John,

It was great meeting you as well. Give me a call this week. I am vary pleased with what Larry of Macedo Motorsports did from the day we left the shop. He went out an got a NEW Truck and Trailer and did not even ask for a dime for his time. What a great guy. Of course you drove the whould way, ha ha. I hope to do it again some time soon. I hope my car, and others with the Roe s/c runs as strong as yours. May be all of us can go to Badington to test and tune? 11.1 on a cream puff and 10.30's with Ward's Roe s/c car......WOW. That rocks. I need to go now. I am going to go ride the new 03 GSXR 1000. Let's see if it does 186mph to night....

 

[heatandair]

Today is about a month after installing my Roe charger. I work on the car every day and still am not completely happy. I have a 2001 gts with 8,000 miles.
The kit was supper easy to install. One buddy and me had it together in les than 8 hours. The instructions were great. And the power I got was even better. The car cranked the first time. However the bugs that came after are still a little bit of a problem. The car is still reliable but not as reliable as stock. I still throw check engine lights about once a week. Bottom line is that there is know such thing as “bolt on” when 90 plus horsepower is what you are bolting on. There will be problems and bugs to work out. Nothing Sean Roe is not able or willing to fix. My system kept sending miss-firing codes. At first we thought it was the computer but after some diagnosis discovered I had a bad vec 2 wiring harness. To make a very long story short in order to take this step on a 2000 or newer car and to do it right from the beginning you have to buy Sean’s whole kit $7,500, install a 1996 computer $500, install better plug wires $80, and plugs (Platinum 4+ $70) and learn from my mistakes. Make all the grounds Sean says to, squeeze the injector clips better, and make a trip to a dyno with a wide band o2 to insure your air to fuel is O.K If you do all this the first time right off the bat you should be fine. Sean was great to work with and is very friendly. I have been to see him twice to thank him in person. The kit was easy and fun to install. You just have to be patent and know that there may me some bumps in the road but it will get straightened out. It was a small price to pay to jump from 421 SAE h.p to 530-550 SAE H.P over night. Plus I learned a lot. Oh and even though I have had my share of problems, there was never any problem with the supercharger itself, just with the computer. Like I said I have meet Sean twice, he is honesty, reputable and easy to reach. My car runs smooth but after all this I still throw codes now and again, but only when beating on it. And I mean really beating on it. I drive the car like I feel it was intended. I have been through 1 half shaft, 4 u joints and 2 motor mounts to prove it. Happy motoring.

 

[Gerald]

Sean, you sound like a VERY busy phone guy...

 

[TFAST4U]

Heatandair,
I went to Hiltom Head S.C last year. What a wonderful place you live. We will be going back there this year. We can meet up if you would like.

Now to the Roe s/c questions I have.
With the wide band o2 what was your air fuel?
What is it now?
Do you have a dyno sheet you can post with thr a/f, hp, and tq?

When you said this above "I still throw codes now and again, but only when beating on it. " What codes are still comming up?

By the way I run my Viper in the red all the time. The last time I throw a code is when the car runs on less than 10cly. Misfire codes.
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GXSR 1000 1st gear 93mph, 2end gear 123mph, 3erd gear 149mph. All at 13,000 RPM. Bike only had 3 miles on her. Gota set the rings in! I only went 167mph. No room on I95 last night........

 

[Sean Roe]

Hi Dave (heatandair),
What code(s) are you getting?
I know that you had one the other day when you changed exhaust and didn't plug in the downstream oxygen sensors, but has there been another? Are you referring to the misfire code from when you stopped by last week with the Accell plug wire arcing through the side of the boot and #1 plug wet with fuel? If you need that wire for warranty replacement, you left it here (I need the loaner wire back when you get a replacement).
Call me with any code(s) you're getting and we'll help you determine the cause.

Like Dave said, mechanically, everything has been 100%. The only issues that ever come up are either original equipment related or computer related. By computer related, I mean the VEC2, in that they can fail or have bugs just like any other computer. Since Dave's wiring problem (wire cut as it was crimped), we created a new proceedure for testing and inspecting the harnesses.

The original equipment problems are a lot tougher. Anything that could happen on the car to cause it to run poorly or set codes before, can still happen after the Supercharger is installed. The confusing part for most is that they don't think past the Supercharger. I've spent hours on the phone with people just to learn that the installer who put in roller rockers used too long of a pushrod and also adjusted them too far down, causing the engine to run poorly when cold and be down on power. But, since the SC was on the car, they looked at it causing the problem first (not complaining, just goes with the territory).

Gerald,
Yes, I spend a lot of time on the phone each day. We're fortunate enough to have over 5,000 Viper customers now and a 12 hour day flys by. We're learning a lot and making our products / business better each day.

I'm very proud of our Supercharger system and the power it produces. The reports I got back from participants and spectators at the V10 Nationals helps reinforce my pride in our work. There were three customer blower kits there that were able to run exactly like they're supposed to, pass, after pass, after pass, with no problems or work being done on the cars. From what I heard, some tuners there had to spend a lot more time and money on their cars just to go .1 second faster and couldn't do it consistently.

Bottom line, we build this kit to be 100% bullet proof, but cannot account for all the things that can cause a car to run poorly if something is not correct. We stand behind our products 100%. We even go as far as to help people diagnose problems, in person and over the phone, even though most times the cause is not related to the Supercharger or parts we provided in the kit. We appreciate all constructive critcism and use it to help improve things even more.

Regards,
Sean

 

[heatandair]

I second everything Sean Said. As far as tfast4 u. My wide band 02 has been everywhere from below the chart rich to as high as 17 to 1 lean. Sean and I were experimenting with some ideas. Have not been to the dyno since I have made my latest and what I feel are the best changes. I will post my results next week. As for your vacation, I would love to meet another fellow owner. Drop me a line at heatandair@adelphia .net before you come.

Sean, the new codes are for the crankshaft position sensor on bank one, and for I think a code # 1236 but I am not positive. They are both after racing and hitting the rev limiter a few times.

Proof- Total invested: a little over $8,000. Down time: a little over 8 hours for the install. Problems: a few check engine lights, miss-fires, and headaches (Car still ran though). Results: being dead even with A Venom 600 for about $18,000 less, Priceless!

 

[GTzViper]

To the Vipers that have a problem with cylinders 8 and 10 running too rich -
My Viper tec. followed Sean's advice and moved the oxygen sensors to where they are reading all cylinders and added a ground wire both in the front as well in the back by the battery sensor. Problem solved.
Thanks to Sean for always being there when needed and providing the solutions.
My first dyno #s (before I even had the problem fixed) 583.4 RWHP 603.7 RWTQ.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

1TONY1 posted "sun ra kat, Do you have clips on the injector connectors now ?"

(My computer was in the shop past few days being repaired & I just got it back.)

I'm using the stock clips. After my Viper Tech checked to see if they were still connected securely I have had no engine check lights since then. He has my Viper now to do the big squeeze on the clips on the fuel injectors and then reinstall them, stop a minor leak of fuel (injector o-ring or loose fuel rail fitting), put my ECB Green brake pads back on, check on putting in a rear ground, check on crank pulley with Loc-Tite, check on if this takes care of everything or determine I have to get the older & better Mopar PCM from Sean.

I'm looking forward to the day when I stop having exotic car problems and just go back to having an exotic looking car.

BTW - I now have exotic car gas guage syndrome - my gas guage falls towards "E" quite rapidly, but I'm not complaining - I'm still getting better gas mileage than I did in some of my previous cars with less than 1/5 the power.

 

[1TONY1]

The stock injector connectors don't have clips.....at least early cars don't. When I say clips, I am talking a metal locking retainer clips.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

1TONY1, let me clairify my previous post - the stock injector connectors, whatever they are on my 2002 Viper are being squeezed together by needle nosed pliers to have a more secure grip on the fuel injectors.

 

[TFAST4U]

Heatandair,
I have the same code " codes are for the crankshaft position sensor ". I just wanted to let you know you are not the only one. I was told that if you have a bad " crankshaft position sensor " your Viper will not run. THIS is what I was told. Like I have said befor. I am no tech. At the same time I was getting the " Misfire " codes. I think this is a direct coralation with the injectors misfireing because of a loose conection at the injector. Just my .02 cents / I do not have my Viper back yet. So this info was BEFOR I took it to Larry at M2 in Orlando FL.

 

[varanus]

I had an instance where the car completely shut off for about 3 seconds then fired up again. A few miles later I got the CPS code too. I replaced it and haven't seen the code since. Since the VEC 2 I have only had 2 codes come up one time each and that was a misfire in # 2 cyl. That was when I learned about injectors not firing because of conectors. The other being the CPS which was replaced.

Like I said before it's funny how some of the connectors snap tight and other wobble when pushed by hand. Definitely a need for crimping down the connectors a little

 

[2MANYTOYS]

Met with my Viper tech last Sat. and picked up my Viper with the Roe S/C installed. The car ran very strong. I drove 3 hours home with no problems except that my air conditioner would not blow cold air. Sunday I drove the car a couple of miles and it started running poorly. Spitting and sputtering and threw some codes. However, I did have cold air again I called my Viper tech who is 6 hours away and also called a friend of mine who is a dodge mechanic between the two the car started running good again and I thought everything was fixed. I take the car out for a drive today and get 5 miles down the road and it starts running poorly again. I limp back home and am PISSED. I bought a code reader from sean but it either doesn't help me or doesn't work either one. No check engine light is on but the car is running like [******]!!!!! So now I'm freakin stuck here with a very expensive car that won't run and sounds embarrassing. I'm not a mechanic and my vipertech is 6 hours away at best. What do I do? BTW, my car is an 02 it has just over a 1,000 miles on it. It ran perfectly prior to adding the S/C. Now it makes a nice looking garage ornament. I'm sick of hearing that its not the S/C causing the problem. The car was perfect prior to. I done all the things your suppose to adding grounds, moving 02 sensors,bought a new 96 computer, etc........ When the car does run good I don't trust it. And for good reason just like today. The sad thing is that the car ran so good for about 3 hours, when it's right, it's right. But so far it *****! I'm thinking now I should have sent my car to a tuner and had it done right.

 

[varanus]

In what way is it running poorly?
Low power, misfires?You didn't indicate what the viper tech and mechanic did to make it run well.
I had the apparent "intermitent poor running which I believe was bad connections to the injectors causing one not to fire sometimes.
If you can describe how it ran maybe someone here can help.

 

[Sean Roe]

Hi Brian (2MANYTOYS),

Now that you've got that off your chest, let's set about getting your car running right.
1. The A/C and Supercharger are two separate items. You may be sick of hearing it, but the Supercharger is not the cause of your A/C problems, working and not working. You may have a bad pressure switch or the pressure may be low.
2. If there is no check engine light, the code reader will not have a code to read.
3. It does not take a special Viper tech to work on a Viper. What is required is a conscientious mechanic with years of automotive experience, as opposed to a "parts changer". I'm sure you can relate to this as your local friend used a scan tool to read and correct the mounting of the throttle position sensor when the code set recently.
4. If your car is running poorly, please call with the current problem or consult your troubleshooting guide.
5. If you are not mechanically inclined or don't have the time, take the car to the mechanic you trust the most, give him the troubleshooting guide and our toll free #. Using the guide, I'm sure he will be able to quickly find any "Supercharger related" problem causing the poor running condition. Though you did not go into any details, I agree with Varanus, in that it is a good possibility that it's an injector connector or something similar (see page 1 of this thread for the guide and refer to item #3 in the posted TS guide).
I have another test to add to that as well. The mechanic can take the VEC2 out of the loop by unplugging its forward and rear plugs and reconnection the stock plugs to each other. The engine will run a little rich at idle, but it will also allow the factory PCM to see the injectors. If there's a connection problem, it will show up as the PCM monitors the spike back return signal after an injector is fired. The code reader will then tell you which cylinder to check.
We're getting injector connectors in from a few manufacturers to test (the factory injectors and the Bosch we use all have the same connector specs). If the stock ones are going to give us this much trouble, we'll include new ones in the kit. The installer will have to cut off the original connectors and crimp the new ones on.

Regards,
Sean

PS.
Just so you know, I'm not immune to car problems either:
My wife's car (ML320) set a check engine light two weeks ago and started running rough. I used our equipment here and read the code. It was a misfire and multi-cylinder misfire (it's stock and is not Supercharged ). It went to the dealer, under warranty, for repair. Last night, she called from the side of the road saying it was doing it again, but worse. Went back to the dealer on a roll back this morning.
My MINI Cooper S has 4,000 miles on it. It left me walking when the starter went a couple months ago. Soon after, it started stalling after startup. Then, the coolant tank started leaking engine oil. In total, the car has been out of service for 42 days so far.
Of course, none of this happened until we started sending out Supercharger kits
Hot rod cars that are computer controlled, like the Viper, can be even worse.


PPS.
Just so everybody knows in advance, your gas mileage will go down when you're on the power a lot with the SC. It takes air AND fuel to make power. You now have more of all three. I have to say this because we've had 3 people contact us complaining that their gas mileage has gone down since the Supercharger was installed.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

In what way is it running poorly?
Low power, misfires?You didn't indicate what the viper tech and mechanic did to make it run well.
I had the apparent "intermitent poor running which I believe was bad connections to the injectors causing one not to fire sometimes.
If you can describe how it ran maybe someone here can help.

The most recent codes were TPS and ASD Relay, we took the tps off tried to adjust it as much and possible put it back on and reset all the codes. The car ran good for a few miles and then started doing the same. The idle has been very eratic up and down, driving easy up through the gears their is a lot of missing and sputtering, nothing is smooth at all sounds like it's flooding or loading up. Prior to all this I was getting cylinder misfires on many different ones, 02 heater failure constantly, changed the computer to a new 96 (350.00) a dumber computer that won't throw or can't throw some of those codes. Now we think that we have a bad tps. Who knows what that will cost. Why is it bad if it is? It was fine prior to adding the S/C. Funny thing is now I don't have any check engine lights to reset and the car is still running terrible. I plugged my code reader and eraser in and it did nothing.

 

[Larry Macedo]

With the TPS code in mind, did you upgrade your Throttle Bodies to 70mm? The missing and sputtering can be attributed to a faulty TPS. The ASD Relay could be faulty, although I would double check all of your electrical connections.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

With the TPS code in mind, did you upgrade your Throttle Bodies to 70mm? The missing and sputtering can be attributed to a faulty TPS. The ASD Relay could be faulty, although I would double check all of your electrical connections.

Yes I added the 70mm. Can they go bad from changing throttle bodies? If one or both are bad (tps,asd) why we're they working properly prior to adding these mods? I will double check the electrical connections.

 

[Larry Macedo]

With the TPS code in mind, did you upgrade your Throttle Bodies to 70mm? The missing and sputtering can be attributed to a faulty TPS. The ASD Relay could be faulty, although I would double check all of your electrical connections.

Yes I added the 70mm. Can they go bad from changing throttle bodies? If one or both are bad (tps,asd) why we're they working properly prior to adding these mods? I will double check the electrical connections.

Make sure that the TPS harness connector and connection on the TPS are facing forward (towards air box) and not backward (towards engine), this will definitely cause a problem if reversed. The connection on the TPS is offset to one side, that side faces forward.

 

[SMCBUILDERSINC]

HEATANDAIR WROTE,
Proof- Total invested: a little over $8,000. Down time: a little over 8 hours for the install. Problems: a few check engine lights, miss-fires, and headaches (Car still ran though). Results: being dead even with A Venom 600 for about $18,000 less, Priceless!

SORRY FELLOW NEIGHBOR AND FRIEND, YOU MADE ME DO THIS.....

Let me set the record straight, the results heatandair has been having are not nearly as cut and dry as he might describe. He has never been dead even with my venom 600. He should be able to beat me but it has definetly never happened. We have raced probably 8 to 10 times and his car although improving cant touch the venom 600 by the time we reach third gear. Ask him what happens when we race from a stand still!!!! His supercharged car is very fast but thusfar has proven to be very unreliable. I understand that in time it will run right but as for now, that is just not the case. As for the $18k less, he has many more thousands invested in his machine then I do. Believe it, I am only stating fact not opinion.

 

[1TONY1]

This post is for talking about and solving problems with Roe s/c cars not "who is the fastest" Please take the arguments (true or not)to another thread. Thanks, Tony

 

[2MANYTOYS]

With the TPS code in mind, did you upgrade your Throttle Bodies to 70mm? The missing and sputtering can be attributed to a faulty TPS. The ASD Relay could be faulty, although I would double check all of your electrical connections.

Yes I added the 70mm. Can they go bad from changing throttle bodies? If one or both are bad (tps,asd) why we're they working properly prior to adding these mods? I will double check the electrical connections.

Make sure that the TPS harness connector and connection on the TPS are facing forward (towards air box) and not backward (towards engine), this will definitely cause a problem if reversed. The connection on the TPS is offset to one side, that side faces forward.

Thanks Larry I will check it out. I believe it is turned properly.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Sean Roe writes, "Just so everybody knows in advance, your gas mileage will go down when you're on the power a lot with the SC. It takes air AND fuel to make power. You now have more of all three. I have to say this because we've had 3 people contact us complaining that their gas mileage has gone down since the Supercharger was installed."

I get 16.3 MPG highway now with 94 octane and 15.8 MPG with 93 octane. With all the power that I have, I'm very happy it gets that good gas mileage. I noticed that with every power increase that my mileage went down just like it should. If I wanted gas mileage, I would have left it the way it was running before the supercharger - I was getting 17.1 to 16.9 MPG highway mileage and 436 rear wheel horsepower. Going up to over 580 rear wheel horsepower and now more likely 600 rear wheel horsepower and only giving up 2 MPG is fantastic.

 

[SMCBUILDERSINC]

Sorry Tony, Did I break the rules? Please dont lock me up! Next you will be repermanding me b/c of the font im typing with.

 

[1TONY1]

Sorry Tony, Did I break the rules? Please dont lock me up! Next you will be repermanding me b/c of the font im typing with.

And check your spelling... FIRST.....now I am KIDDING. No problems, I just see tons of threads head in the opposite directions. This thread is very important in helping us out. No dis intended.

 

[1TONY1]

Anybody have a cold engine bucking problem. Mine.....cold engine, first start of the day at low rpm has a bucking problem. More pronounced going up hill (extra load) When I pull out of my drive the road goes up hill, but it is there on flat ground. If I go ahead and get some rpms up it goes away but I don't like doing that on a cold engine. After two minutes drive time it is fine. Doesn't seem to matter if I crank and go or let the car idle two minutes. I have not tryed a five minute warm up.