An open forum for Roe Supercharged Viper owners/installers

onerareviper

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OK Viperholics,

I'm hoping to gain some knowledge before installing my Roe S/C. I want to know the 'Good', the 'Bad', and everything in between - experiences you've had with the unit during/after installation. Two Rules: 1. Let's keep this current, and assume the VEC2 is installed. (or if you had no problems pre-VEC2 and chose not to use) 2. Must have 'driven' or 'installed' or 'own-ordered' a Roe S/C unit. Not interested in hearsay.

*** I realize everyone has there favorites, and this post is not about comparisons between different S/C units. If your interested in hearing those opinions, please create a seperate post or do a search.

*** I hope this forum is open & honest, so all Roe S/Ced Viper owners can benefit. Although, if you prefer to send me information confidentially, for whatever reason, please sent to [email protected]

Thanks in advance!

---------------------------
Onerareviper
1998 Silver/Blue GTS
Roe S/C (Near Future)
VEC2
5 into 1 1 3/4 headers
high-flow cats
3' Corsa
Tubes/Filters
 

VIPERCANE

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Had my Roe SC with VEC 2 installed now for a few months. Drive the car only on weekends. Had a problem initially with the larger throttle bodies losing a screw head and
the head actually being sucked in to the SC and disrupting such.....shutting it down. Kinda sucked as I was driving it and the car came to a halt. Sean replaced the SC , and again, it was not the SC but a problem with the TB being over torqued by the manufacturer as I was told. Other than that, the car is a beast and what a fun toy it is as my tag says it all "1FUNTOY". The only other problem I have had was the fuel rail was leaking badly and could have been a fire hazard. Sean expedited a new connector and all was taken care of.

The SC is a blast. What a difference it makes. With the new T&Ds and the VEC2, I will be dynoing soon and hope to make around 605RWHP. The car has its basic mods etc......Borla exhaust/TNT headers. Before the VEC2 and T&Ds, it made 568RWHP.

I am now thinking of getting an RT -10 and having DLM or Larry Macedo do the work to experience the monstrous power Doug creates with his SC/Larry with the turbos.

I am still a novice learning the ropes. You can't go wrong with the Roe for its price. Definitely well worth every penny.
And plus Sean is a stand up guy to deal with. That's important.
 

fuelman

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I have the Roe Super Charger on a 2001 GTS with T&Ds, Corsa and Random Tech cats. Macedo Motorsports did the install. I have not had the car on the dyno yet, but the torque and power are amazing. Nicely balanced to be just at the maximum threshold of the stock chasis. Any more power might be unmanageable on the street, stab the throttle 1/4 to 3/8 down and hange on the tires turn to smoke, if you hit second gear with any boost as I did today make sure there is nothing with 10 feet of you on either side. My best description to people is that if you say "hit it now," by the time you pronounce the W you'll be at 100 mph. The install was clean and the Vec 2 seems to be working great, no detonation. Larry Macedo did a great job setting the car up, someone who is good with a wrench could do it on their own, but having a Viper tuner like Larry doing the install means you will be driving it home 6 hours after you start. From time to time I have gotten a check engine light, which is reading a misfire, but the engine is not missing at all and is perfoming beyond my expectations. Sean advises the misfire code may have to do with the weak ignition systems in the viper, and the fact that I am not using the spark plugs he provided with the system. Sean says he is currently working on improving the ignition system output. I know there is a lot of chat on who has the best system. To me the Roe Charger is great value for a street car, I drive my car almost every day in hot Florida weather and it behaves just as it did stock, with the exception that there is probably no other street car that could beat me from light to light. Bolt it on and hang on.
 
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onerareviper

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Thanks John. Good to here a success story from a cast piston car. Question: Why not install the plugs Sean provided? Maybe the check engine light will go away, who knows. Another idea: from my Mustang days I remember when using a SC, to make sure your plug gap is not too large. May want to go conservative on the gap. Of course, check with Sean/Larry before taking my advice. ;)

Later
 

fuelman

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It looks like you were up late pondering your mods for your Viper. I should have installed the Plugs Sean provided, but I guess I am hard in the head about change. I have always used NGK V-power plugs in all of my cars, so I thought they would be good for this application. I am changing to the Bosch plugs provided in Sean's kit this week. Sean feels this may clear up the problem. As I said it is only occasionally that I get the Check engine light, so the computer may be detecting a small loss of spark and reporting it as a mis-fire, however I have not felt or heard any mis-fire. I have been around fast cars and engines my whole life, I have rebuilt engines etc in my youth, It is my opinion that this 5 lbs blower is a good and safe mod for the viper engine, cream puff or not. The VEC 2 is a very clean installation and looks factory. As with any fast car, I will monitor for detonation as the summer heat increases and I will change to the 9 degree retard card if I have too. Good luck with you decision.
 
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onerareviper

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John,

My decision is alrealy made. I'm just waiting for my SC shipment to arrive. Should be here shortly! My first post (bottom) indicates the mods I should have installed by end of April. I'm still up-in-the-air about the 1.7 RR/70mm Throtttle body/intake/tubes.

Later

P.S. - I've been a night owl since birth. Neighbors think I'm nuts working on cars at 1 AM.
 

2MANYTOYS

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John,

My decision is alrealy made. I'm just waiting for my SC shipment to arrive. Should be here shortly! My first post (bottom) indicates the mods I should have installed by end of April. I'm still up-in-the-air about the 1.7 RR/70mm Throtttle body/intake/tubes.

Later

P.S. - I've been a night owl since birth. Neighbors think I'm nuts working on cars at 1 AM.

Onerareviper
I have a Roe S/C being installed right now. It's actually done but I'm having several other mods done as well. My Viper tech Tom Sessions should have it running today.
I was struggling as well with whether or not to go ahead and do the rockers and 70mm throttle bodies. I decided to wait and see how it reacts to the stock throttle bodies/rockers. I think this will keep me happy for a while. After that I'm gonna add more goodies.
When I get my car back I'll give a report on it. :usa:
 

RedGTS

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Hey Brian, you want me to run over there and drive it for you and give you a report? :)

I'm expecting a phone call after I get back from vacation.
 

2MANYTOYS

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Hey Brian, you want me to run over there and drive it for you and give you a report? :)

I'm expecting a phone call after I get back from vacation.
:D :D I hear ya buddy. I told you when I get it back you can drive it. I'll call you when your back from Vacation. I talked to Tom last night he's got a lot of things done. He should be finished soon. You need to go ahead and install yours. I can't wait to see that thing with all of the chrome on it. Have a safe vacation.
 

heatandair

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Installed my Roe S/C On saturday. Got an itch on Friday night, drove down to Jacksonville ( 2 hours away) and picked it up. Sean stayed untill i got there and i was home by 1 A.M. Up a 9:00 A.M had it installed by 2:00 P.m Installed it with two buddies. Super easy D.i.Y project and sean is reachable 24/7. It cranked on our first try. Dynoed at 421 SAe one week earlier and 520 after. All i have is filters tubes and side pipes on my 2001 GTS. The compter still needs some work and when it is tunned right should make 550 SAE.
 

King RT10

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I had a problem with a harness but Sean shipped me a new one immediatly. With the vec 2 this car flies. Its a delicate line between going forward and spinning. Vipermed did the installation and is a first class act whom I not only enjoy doing business with but also look forward to future business.
Although he has been combing his hair a lot like(...)???
 

axe

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Is anyone running 91 octane gas with the Roe supercharger? How is it? Thanks.
 

GASDOC

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Just wondering if you guys are using the VEC2 6D card with 93 octane and 9D card with 91 octane.Anybody experiencing detonation with either??
 

VIPERCANE

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I am using 93 with the 6 and no detonation............just outrageous fun..........Larry Macedo makes sure that there is no detonation.....right Larry????? :)
 

fuelman

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I think you will be happy with your decision on the Roe SC. With regard to the roller rockers and T&Bs. I had Macedo Motorsports install some T&Ds in January before the super charger. Larry did a great job on the install, the car has a real lope to it now, but most importantly is what it did at the track. My Viper always ran 12.4 / 12.5 at around 115 mph, after the roller rockers I ran a best of 11.96 at 120.5 mph. I think these results are better than most, but that is because Larry Macedo hit a bullseye on the install, he doesn't install them in one day he makes you leave the car so that he can order the exact pushrods overnight. I think with the cream puff cams the roller rockers have more of an effect. I am going to do the throttle bodies after track testing and and the dyno. I'll post those results as soon as I have them.
 

utahviper

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I am wanting to attend the V-10 event but it is 1700 miles from my house and I would have to go early and tune my car for sea level. Anyway, if someone is coming from Cali or someplace from the west and has an extra spot I would love to go! I will drive to meet anywhere within reason. Dr roof if you would like to pass the word around to any west coaster I would appreciate it.
Thanks
 
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SUN RA KAT

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As one of the first Roe S/C owners (#35), it's been an adventure. Sean has been working with me every step of the way in getting rid of the little bugs that cropped up. One of the best things Sean told me to do was get a OBDII code reader (Equus 3100) and I've used it quite often tracing down codes & Sean has been working his magic in fine tuning his supercharger system getting rid of the codes and giving me noticable seat of the pants improvements in power each time. My Viper Tech, Bobby Loder, has also been working with me every step of the way and has talked to Sean about any of the issues that came up in the first group of superchargers.

I'd have to say my Viper is on the verge of being perfect in terms of daily driveability and reliability. Right now, my only problem seems to be misfires of cylinders #9 & #10 causing an engine check light (but not noticable in drivability). My Viper Tech says I don't drive my Viper hard enough and Sean says I should get it into the higher RPM band every now and then to keep the spark plugs clean, so I now follow their advice... :D ...and the engine check light has gone away. Sean is working on upgrading the coils which should also get rid of this problem. He's also given me other advice that I'll be checking out after I get to Radio Shack & get an Ohm Meter.

The VEC2 and the custom flashing of the computer cards, for me, is the secret for having everything work just the way it is supposed to or even better than expected.

I have the 70 mm throttle bodies, but not the 1.7 roller rockers. With the 70 mm throttle bodies there is no surge at low RPMs and drivability is smoother than silk, even in stop & go traffic.

I'm really happy with my Roe Supercharger, and if I could do it over, I'd do it the same way with the Roe S/C.
 

TFAST4U

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Hello everyone. I have the 5 psi kit on my 1997 GTS. I have some tunning still to do on things that keep popping up. I would like to see more input on this thread " An Open Forum for Roe Superchared Viper owners / Installers " . Considering there are over 80 Roe s/c Vipers out there. So with that said, I was hoping to restart this thread and get some more info of things good or not so good, so others like me can tune there car better. I know I only have 2 posts, but have read almost every day for over 8 months all the great info Viper Club has to offer. Thanks for your help on this subject.
 

utahviper

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If there is anyone out there that is planning on doing a Roe SC @8lbs of boost with high performance heads(ported,bigger valves,etc) and cam package then you might have to change your fuel system. I have done other things since my 697RWHP/687RWTQ to get more power and I have gotten more torque(718RWTQ so far) but I am running out of fuel on the top end so I can't go high enough to get the horsepower.

I expect to get close to my 750RWHP #'s because my torque with the lowest advance(least power) card was 680RWTQ and with this same card now I get 712RWTQ. 32 foot lbs of torque more and I am running out of fuel. I am now at the point of installing a new fuel system; meaning an extra in line fuel pump, adjustable regulator, and bigger fuel lines. I will then have a Walbro 255lph fuel pump(currently installed), MSD boost a pump(currently installed),in-line large fuel pump, adjustable regulator, and bigger fuel lines.

Once I get my fuel situation resolved then I can start to dyno tune. I haven't even started this process yet because my fuel situation is terrible! I expect that as soon as I get enough fuel that more horsepower and torque will come. Also, with a sufficient fuel system I should pick up some more power/torque from dyno tuning.
 

MES

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utahviper are you running out of fuel even with the boost-a-pump and 255lph pump? Have you checked the boost at higher RPM's? I get some boost creep at higher RPM's 5,000+ maybe your overboosting? I seem to be running out of fuel as well but think it's the injectors. I have the KB boost-a-pump but doesn't seem to help. Note I have ported heads + bolt on's so I think the stock system is near it's max with just bolt on's.

Also 9&10 are fouling for me as well. I think it's due to the location of the bypass valve.
 

utahviper

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I currently have the Walbro 255lph pump with a MSD boost a pump and the fuel pressure drops from 58-59lbs(idle) to 50lbs@(5000rpm),I don't know what it is at higher rpms. I am getting no boost creep upto ~5600rpm on the dyno. When I dynoed before (697RWHP) we took it all the way to 6000rpm with no boost creep. Now I can't take it past 5500rpm without it being too lean(13:1 or higher).
 

Sean Roe

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This troubleshooting guide has been e-mailed / mailed to all SC owners and is now included in the kit. It's based on the tech advice calls we get.

We're 100% confident in the system. Our Supercharger warranty does not cover your original equipment items, such as injector connectors, crankshaft position sensors, fuel pumps, PCM, header type, etc. (it does not go beyond the parts we supply). All of these items can, and at times do, result in a poor running vehicle. Please keep this in mind when diagnosing a problem on a vehicle with aftermarket components installed.



Post Supercharger Installation Troubleshooting Guide:

This guide is based on the most frequent problems we’ve seen post Supercharger installation. The important thing to remember when diagnosing problems is that all the normal mechanical principles apply. Each cylinder must get the proper air, fuel and spark to operate properly. The Supercharger itself is simply an air pump.

Symptoms / Possible Causes / Fixes:

1. Engine runs good when cold, but poorly, or misses, when hot.
Improperly adjusted aftermarket rocker arms.
· Check rocker arm adjustment. May be too tight.

Old or faulty spark plug wires.
· Replace with lower resistance aftermarket wires.

Loose connection at fuel injector(s).
· Resistance to firing the injector goes up with heat. This can cause a loose connection to show itself. Using a mechanics stethoscope, listen to each injector when the missing sound is present to make sure they’re each clicking properly. If an injector is not clicking (firing), begin checking the connection at the injector, then between it and the VEC2. Tighten any loose connections. The injector connectors can be removed with the engine cool without removing the fuel rails.

VEC2 program card not fully loaded.
· Reload card.




2. One or both catalytic converters get hot.
Hot with check engine light.
· Note the cause of the check engine light. Most codes set will put the PCM into a safe “rich” operating mode. With the larger injectors, the extra fuel can cause the converters to get hotter than normal.


Spark plug or wire loose and not firing.
· The excess fuel from a cylinder that is not firing properly can cause the catalytic converter to overheat as it burns the raw fuel. Inspect the plugs and wires for proper installation and / or a wet spark plug.

Stuck open injector(s)
· You will not hear an injector click as it is full on. Disconnect the VEC2 from the factory wiring harness, reconnect the factory harness and test again (note that the engine will run rich without the VEC2).

Consider replacing a stock cat with a high flow, or removing completely.
· The stock cats have 4 substrates inside. They are designed for stock engines.

Vacuum leak within VEC2 system
· Use a vacuum pump and gauge to test for leaks. Connect the pump to the Tee fitting in front of the Supercharger, where it will pull a vacuum on the bypass valve and VEC2 hoses. The system should hold vacuum and the bypass should be full open by 10” of vacuum. A system with leaks will give an incorrect reading to the VEC2 controller.

3. Engine has a steady miss as RPM changes.
Loose connection at fuel injector(s).
· Resistance to firing the injector goes up with heat. This can cause a loose connection to show itself. Using a mechanics stethoscope, listen to each injector when the missing sound is present to make sure they’re each clicking properly. If an injector is not clicking (firing), begin checking the connection at the injector, then between it and the VEC2. Tighten any loose connections. The injector connectors can be removed with the engine cool without removing the fuel rails.

Spark plug or wire loose and not firing.
· Check plugs and wires for proper operation.

4. Engine runs poorly cold, but better when hot.
Improperly adjusted aftermarket rocker arms.
· Check rocker arm adjustment. May be too tight.
Improperly functioning oxygen sensor(s)
· Oxygen sensors must be hot and clean to produce the proper output voltage, which the PCM uses to determine the air to fuel ratio.

5. Engine has pinging (detonation) under boost at a particular RPM, or in a specific range with the *D card.
Spark advance too high.
· Change to a different card with higher number.
· Increase fuel octane.

Hot engine or heavy load when hot (6th gear heavy acceleration)
· Drop down a gear.

Configure a custom card for your car.
· Contact us with the following information: Card program you’re using, modifications to car, octane of fuel used, RPM area or range where detonation (pinging) occurs and manifold pressure level if not at full throttle (boost).

Vacuum leak within bypass / VEC2 system
· Use a vacuum pump and gauge to test for leaks. Connect the pump to the Tee fitting in front of the Supercharger, where it will pull a vacuum on the bypass valve and VEC2 hoses. The system should hold vacuum and the bypass should be full open by 10” of vacuum.


Blow-by oil in intake manifold.
· Check the breather system for oil contamination. If oil is getting into the manifold, the engine may smoke at start up. Choose another breather option from the manual, which eliminates the return into the intake.

Lack of fuel flow.
· Clogged / restrictive fuel filter.
· Faulty fuel pump / pressure.

6. Engine starts slowly.
Weak battery.
Cold plugs.
· Use alternate Bosch Platinum +2 spark plug # 4308 with preset gap.


7. At 1,500 to 2,000 RPM, the engine doesn’t sound as smooth as stock.
Short runner intake design.
· The short runner intake used in the system makes the smoothest power above 2,000 RPM, where the velocity in the intake runners is higher.

8. Check engine light is on.
Check the code.
· Utilize the factory diagnostics, as they are good at showing the cause of a problem. Plug a code reader into the diagnostic link at the left side of the driver’s side foot well.

9. Check engine light comes on for misfire code on cylinder(s) #X.
Loose connection at fuel injector(s).
· Resistance to firing the injector goes up with heat. This can cause a loose connection to show itself. Using a mechanics stethoscope, listen to each injector when the missing sound is present to make sure they’re each clicking properly. If an injector is not clicking (firing), begin checking the connection at the injector, then between it and the VEC2. Tighten any loose connections. The injector connectors can be removed with the engine cool without removing the fuel rails.

Spark plug or wire loose and not firing.
· Inspect the plugs and wires for proper installation and / or a wet spark plug.



10. Engine doesn’t sound like it’s firing on all cylinders.
See #9 and #11.

11. Engine runs poorly after I changed a card.
The card was not properly read.
· Turn the key off. Turn the key back on and attempt to reload the card.

The smart card file was corrupt.
· Change to a different card.

12. The engine idles poorly.
Vacuum leak within bypass / VEC2 system
· Use a vacuum pump and gauge to test for leaks. Connect the pump to the Tee fitting in front of the Supercharger, where it will pull a vacuum on the bypass valve and VEC2 hoses. The system should hold vacuum and the bypass should be full open by 10” of vacuum.

See #9 and #11.
13. The engine runs fine when cold, but sounds like it’s missing when hot.
See #9

14. The engine cuts out for a brief second at a mild acceleration.
VEC2 Firmware upgrade needed.
· Early VEC2’s had the first firmware version. The newer version corrects a bug in the program. Contact us about returning the VEC2 (control box and cards only) for the update. The new version double flashed the final green LED when the card is loaded.


15. Check engine light comes on for a high MAP voltage signal.
Vacuum leak within bypass / VEC2 system
· Use a vacuum pump and gauge to test for leaks. Connect the pump to the Tee fitting in front of the Supercharger, where it will pull a vacuum on the bypass valve and VEC2 hoses. The system should hold vacuum and the bypass should be full open by 10” of vacuum.

Poor connection at the MAP sensor.
· Check the MAP sensor vacuum hose and electrical connections.

16. The engine smokes when started.
Blow-by oil in intake manifold.
· Check the breather system for oil contamination. If oil is getting into the manifold, the engine may smoke at start up. Choose another breather option from the manual, which eliminates the return into the intake.

17. The engine idles high.
Throttle linkage improperly adjusted / hanging.
· Check for smooth and proper operation of the throttle body operating mechanism. Adjust throttle body alignment if necessary.
18. The engine idle hangs.
Factory PCM improperly adjusting the Idle Air Controller.
· Common problem in stock Viper PCM program.

19. I get fire out of my exhaust when I shift.
Excess fuel is being burned.
· When the throttle is closed, the fuel injectors remain on for a moment (all Vipers). When the exhaust is hot, the fuel can ignite in the pipe.

20. The exhaust burbles when I decelerate.
See #19.

21. #8, 9 and or 10 spark plugs are black.
Headers with oxygen sensors reading forward cylinders only.
· Move oxygen sensors to a location in the collector or only in the middle cylinder. Most common on Balenger headers.

Cold plugs.
· Use alternate Bosch Platinum +2 spark plug # 4308 with preset gap.

Rear cylinders run richer at vacuum.
· Run the car hard and check the plugs again to ensure they’re cleaning off as the manifold is pressurized, balancing the airflow.

22. My air fuel ratio gets leaner above 5,500 rpm.
Lack of fuel flow.
· Clogged / restrictive fuel filter.
· Faulty fuel pump / pressure.
· Too small of a fuel pump, line or injectors for the application.


23. My engine has an intermittent miss.
See #9.
24. My engine will not start.
Bad VEC2 or incorrectly installed wiring harness.
· Check wiring connections.
· Remove VEC2 from the system and test starting.
· Damaged PCM from improper wiring installation.

VEC2 program card not loaded properly / bad card.
· Attempt to reload the card / new card.




25. I smell a fuel leak, but am not sure where it’s coming from.
Leaking fitting or o-ring.
· Turn the key to the on position, let the pump run, then shut off. Check all fuel rail fittings, injectors and fuel line connection behind the motor at the quick connect for fuel residue. Replace or tighten fitting as necessary.

26. I have oil leaking from the vent on top of the blower drive housing.
Excess oil venting out.
· The case holds 120 to 150 cc’s of oil. We fill it to the maximum level when new. It will vent out any extra oil as it finds it’s own level.

27. I have oil leaking near the back of the supercharger.
Loose clamps.
· Check the location of the short hoses at the back and adjust the clamps as necessary.

29. My engine is running lean.
See # 22.


30. My crankshaft balancer hub / bolt fell off.
The crankshaft hub spun, unscrewing the bolt due to the direction of rotation.
· Use Loctite #271 (red) on the bolt threads and torque to factory setting of 250 ft / lbs. We have had no hub come off when this procedure is followed.
· Pin the crankshaft hub to the crank using our pin tool kit for an extra safety measure if required.

31. I have a 2000 (or newer) Viper and it breaks up at full throttle when hot (or sets miss fire codes)
Change the PCM to an alternate one.
· Contact us for an alternate PCM we’ve found to work better.
 

Sean Roe

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Todd,
Once you get your fuel pump voltage booster installed correctly, where it is actually increasing the voltage, you will need to test again. I hope we were able to help you find your wiring problem yesterday, where it sounded like you had the wires reversed.

Sean
 

1TONY1

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Also 9&10 are fouling for me as well. I think it's due to the location of the bypass valve.

The bypass may be a small part of the problem but is not a cure. I don't really know why #10 is fouling or at the very least running way rich on everybodys car. After more testing I can give you the % change that a different bypass location makes but at this time I would guess less than 15% difference in the mixture of that cylinder.

Lets get some feed back on the two and four strap Bosch plugs: I haven't tried them yet and have only had feedback from a few people. I have spent $150 in plugs including Iridiums with no change and I would like to hear results before I spend any more $$$.
 

GTzViper

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Highlands Ranch, CO U.S.A.
1TONY1, I have the same problem with 8 and 10, the last two cylinders on the passenger side. They are running way too rich and when I changed to the Bosch +4 plugs the problem went away but it was only temporary because carbon build up (same as previous plugs) to a point where those two cylinders are not firing at all. I've since gave up on trying to find the problem and taken the car to my Viper tec. After four days in the shop we still don't know the cause. The injectors are fine and so is the oxygen sensors. The voltage coming out of the spark plug wires is also fine and equal to the rest. Sean told me it may have something to do with the placement of the front oxygen sensors which are connected to the front three headers #2,4,6 and may be misreading the other two #8 and 10.
The solution would be to move the sensors to a location where it could read all cylinders but the only location I can find with no interference is too far from where the headers connect. Considering the other side is firing fine, I would like to eliminate all other possibilities before drilling new holes in the headers which will remove some of the clear coating.
Anyone who finds the solution, pleeeese post it!!
I'll do the same if my tec. finds something next week.
 

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