Saleen S7 test in light of recent Motor Trend Viper test

allanlambo

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Posts
1,156
Reaction score
0
Location
scottsdale
I was looking at the new issue of Road and Track and they happen to test the new Saleen S7. Very disappointing. First of all the car looks like a Mosler, and seems very kit car looking. As for performance, it posted an awesome 0-60 time of 3.3 seconds, by 100mph, both the Viper SRT and the Lambo Murcielago are about 1/2 second ahead, they both also beat it in the 1/4, it posted a 11.8@119 time. I believe both cars also posted better stopping distances also.
 

Vic

VCA Venom Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2000
Posts
6,762
Reaction score
0
The Saleen S7 factory is right near me. We visited it a few weeks ago. Every part on that car is custom built, billet this, CNCd that, carbon fiber body, space frame, all beautiful components, top quality stuff throughout. I don't know if you have any close up touchy feely with the S7, but it didn't feel like a kit car to me! Felt like money! ha ha I still don't really like its looks, and it could be more competitive, but after that factory visit, I at least respect it now, and understand it a little better.

Side note- Because of Saleens' experience building the S7, Ford is taking advantage of their know how, and they (Saleen) are building (final assembly) the new GT. If you haven't heard it already...
 

Paolo Castellano

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Posts
1,173
Reaction score
2
Location
Elburn, Il, USA
I was looking at the new issue of Road and Track and they happen to test the new Saleen S7. Very disappointing. First of all the car looks like a Mosler, and seems very kit car looking. As for performance, it posted an awesome 0-60 time of 3.3 seconds, by 100mph, both the Viper SRT and the Lambo Murcielago are about 1/2 second ahead, they both also beat it in the 1/4, it posted a 11.8@119 time. I believe both cars also posted better stopping distances also.


I was also very disappointed with the S7 #'s. I initially thought the S7 2-3 gearing split was too great, 1.57 to 1.14 vs 1.78 to 1.3 for the Viper. But 1.57 X 3.22 = 5.055, 1.14 X 3.22 = 3.67(S7 gearing multiples). 1.78 X 3.07 =5.46, 1.3 X 3.07 = 3.991(Viper gearing multiples). Now, take the multiples for the S7 3.67/5.055 =.72. Now for the Viper 3.991/5.4646 =.73==> Almost the same. Now I am sure the S7 has a lower drag coefficient and frontal area than the Viper. With this being said, I would have to believe that the HP/TQ #'s for the S7 are over rated relative the the #'s published for the Viper. Speaking of 0-100 MPH, the S7 will go 100 MPH @ 6500 RPM in 2nd gear. I think the 0-60 is due to the car being 3,000#'s. I did not see where they could say it is the fastest street car they have tested. I think the S7 looks cheesy with all the gill slits everywhere. Whether they are functional or not is a whole other story. I think the lines of the car are not clean enough, the performance #'s are not impressive enough and the price of the car is way too high. I understand everything is hand made and all but the car is not worth the money by any stretch of the imagination. I do remember talking to Erik Messley who competed in a race S7 professionally. He said the car was much, much easier to drive at the limit than the GTS-R's.
 

CoryMac

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 7, 2002
Posts
196
Reaction score
0
Location
Tampa, FL
I did not see where they could say it is the fastest street car they have tested.

What is it's top speed? That's what is usually meant by fastest. Quickest on the other hand...
 

Motor City Mad Man

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 11, 2000
Posts
1,219
Reaction score
3
Location
Las Vegas, NV
The Saleen S7 factory is right near me. We visited it a few weeks ago. Every part on that car is custom built, billet this, CNCd that, carbon fiber body, space frame, all beautiful components, top quality stuff throughout. I don't know if you have any close up touchy feely with the S7, but it didn't feel like a kit car to me! Felt like money! ha ha I still don't really like its looks, and it could be more competitive, but after that factory visit, I at least respect it now, and understand it a little better.

Side note- Because of Saleens' experience building the S7, Ford is taking advantage of their know how, and they (Saleen) are building (final assembly) the new GT. If you haven't heard it already...

I agree. I have seen the Saleen S7 in person twice in the last year and it looks nothing like a "kit car" in person. The fit and finish and quality of materials looks top notch. Other cars may be faster, but this one sure looks cool.
 

Snakester

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Posts
1,775
Reaction score
0
Location
Morgan Hill
MotorTrend drove this car months ago! They got an 11.75@126mph 1320ft time. 0-60 in 3.9,0-100mph in 8.1secs.

Those times are VERY close to MT's times on the SRT-10 Viper of 11.77@124MPH 1/4 mi. 0-60 in 3.9, 0-100 in 8.36 sec.

Even with the SRT-10 Viper being underrated and actually closer to having around 530HP/590TQ, the difference between the Viper's 3350lbs weight and the S7's proposed 2750lb weight should show a bigger difference in performance, especially with R&T's numbers being closer to the GenII Viper's performance.

You must be registered for see images


The shift gap between 2nd and 3rd seems pretty wide. Whether it was a bad shift, or balky shifter, a power flat spot, or rev limiter cutoff or?, I don't know, but the numbers don't quite add up right relative to the specs and claims.

But the same thing happened with the Shelby Series 1 giving regular Corvette performance. :eek: ops:

It's just going to take a few more tests to figure out if Saleens specs are off, or if the car is just being driven poorly. Right now, it's not coming off well as a $400,000 car.

-Dean.
 

Guibo

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Posts
205
Reaction score
0
allanlambo:
Keep in mind you're comparing stats done by 2 different mags with 2 different drivers at different places. Lots of variables there.
Comparing all three cars' times from one magazine (Road & Track), we get:

S7 / Murcielago / SRT-10
0-30: 1.6 / 1.5 / 1.7
0-40: 2.1 / 2.2 / 2.4
0-50: 2.6 / 2.9 / 3.1
0-60: 3.3 / 3.6 / 4.1
(Max speed in 1st gear: 63 / 62 / 59)
0-70: 4.5 / 4.9 / 5.0
0-80: 5.3 / 5.9 / 6.0
0-90: 6.4 / 7.3 / 7.5
(Max speed in 2nd gear: 100 / 89 / 88)
0-100: 8.9 / 8.7 / 8.9

Time to distance
0-100 ft: 2.8 / 2.6 / 2.8
0-500 ft: 6.7 / 6.6 / 6.8
0-900 ft: 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.7
1/4 mile: 11.8 @ 119.9 / 12.0 @ 121 / 12.2 @ 119.6

Both the S7 and SRT-10 were tested at 150' of elevation. The Murcielago was tested at 350', and in slightly warmer weather (75 degrees). Calm winds for the Lambo and Dodge. Heavy winds for the S7. R&T does not correct times to a known standard temperature/pressure/altitude norm.

So, the S7 does pretty well. As Dean mentions, there's a huge lag in the 2-3 shift for the S7, thus explaining why the S7 was ahead of the Murcielago at 90 mph (by nearly a whole second), yet by 100 mph, it lags behind the Lambo by .2 second. A botched shift at 90+ mph in a car with this kind of downforce, could very well be like gently tapping the brakes in another, more streamlined car. Both cars are able to exceed 60 in first gear, while the Viper comes up short at 59 mph, requiring a shift where the other two don't.

As for the interior, the S7 looks, eh, so-so. IMO, its instrument cluster is far nicer than the Murcielago's (which I think borders on inexcusable). The door panels look a little dead, and at the Saleen's asking price, I think they could have done better than to use (what appears to be) an off-the-shelf Momo shift knob.

I have some super high-res pics of the Saleen somewhere...
 

Warren S

Viper Owner
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Posts
396
Reaction score
0
Location
L.A. (So. Bay), CA
I was with Vic when when visited the Saleen factory. I also have a lot of respect for the design and construction that went into the S7. However, the 2-3 gear lag is disappointing. As for the price, too expensive for me. But if I win the lotto, well maybe... :D

Guibo,
Did you say pics? Here's a few...
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

:usa:
 

BACKNBLACK

Enthusiast
Joined
May 19, 2002
Posts
3,837
Reaction score
0
Location
NY
Guibo, I think your numbers are representing the Gen2 Vipers. The SRT is doing the 1/4 mile in 11.77. 0-60 3.9 sec....
 

Vic

VCA Venom Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2000
Posts
6,762
Reaction score
0
In the upcoming movie, "The Almighty Bruce" with Jim Carey, this is the car that "God" drives!

But now that there is an Enzo, I'm sure God will be switching soon. :D

He can park it next to His Harley!
 

Guibo

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Posts
205
Reaction score
0
BACKNBLACK:
True, true. But I'm going by R&T numbers (since allanlambo was talking about S7 numbers as performed by R&T). They've traditionally been pretty slow with Vipers. One of the quicker tests they've done was back in July of '98, where their GTS returned these numbers:

0-60: 4.3
0-100: 9.5
1/4 mile: 12.5 @ 117.2 mph

That lags well behind times as recorded by C&D and MT (usually 0-60 in 4.0-4.1, 0-100 in 8.8, and 12.2 for the quarter mile). Their ACR was even worse. 0-60 in 4.4, 0-100 in 9.8, with the quarter in 12.6 @ 114.4. To be fair (or not so fair to the Viper), they were testing it in 90-degree temps at an altitude of 1,010 feet. No corrections for conditions will almost guarantee a mediocre result at best.
In this light, the SRT-10's performance at the hands of R&T drivers is still quite an improvement, even if it lags behind the times as returned by C&D and MT.


Warren:
Nice shots, here are some more:

http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2003-3-29/1024403-diablo%20roadstera.jpg

http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2003-3-29/1024415-diablo%20roadstera.jpg

http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2003-3-29/1024440-diablo%20roadstera.jpg

http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2003-3-29/1024470-diablo%20roadstera.jpg
 

Snakester

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Posts
1,775
Reaction score
0
Location
Morgan Hill
Guibo, I think your numbers are representing the Gen2 Vipers. The SRT is doing the 1/4 mile in 11.77. 0-60 3.9 sec....

No, they are the R&T numbers for the SRT-10 Viper, but like all of the other cars tests before the latest Motor Trend test, they were testing the pre-production SRT-10 prototypes.

The fuller numbers on the Murcielago and SRT-10 Viper from M/T are:

SRT-10 Murcielago
0-60 ---3.94---------3.51----
0-100 --8.36---------8.41----
1/4 [email protected]@122.5MPH
1 [email protected]@169.2MPH

But it does make sense that the S7 is quicker to 60MPH than the Viper because it is a lighter car, and does 60MPH in 1st gear. Likewise, the Murcielago does over 60MPH in 1st gear and has AWD to help pull a quick 0-60 time despite it's heavier weight, compared to the other two cars.

-Dean.
 

Vic

VCA Venom Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2000
Posts
6,762
Reaction score
0
What about the S7 stopping performance: 60-0 in 125'

For a relatively light car with big tires that seems pretty poor.

I've seen the brembo 6 piston calipers, and the huge rotors, so its not for a lack of hardware.

Poor weight transfer?
 

Stephen Yap

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 5, 2000
Posts
106
Reaction score
0
Location
Bay Area, CA
It's mid engine config should allow it to have naturally good balance when weight transfers forward under braking. Maybe tire grip (Pirellis) and too much front brake bias and NO ABS ???
 

Moundir

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
1,816
Reaction score
0
Location
Ny
Sorry Allan, I would the Saleen over the Murcielago any day of the week :p I saw both cars upclose at the autoshow and the Saleen blew the lambo in the looks department. Fit and finish was better in the Lambo thought. :cool:
 
Top