Start up problems, newly built engine...

jp

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My plan was to go to the races tonight, but the engine only fires on two cylinders (right cylinder bank). We have spark, we have fuel, but something is wrong. The battery symbol in the dash starts to blink after I've cranked the engine about 5 seconds.
The engine has been totally apart.
Any help is deeply apreciated!
/JP
 

Russ M

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Check these several items.

1-Ignition wire fire order
2-Fuel injectors all pluged in and into the correct cylinders.
3-Fuel in gas tank-its worth a look
4-fuel pressure?
5-map sensor plugged in
6-Cam installed correct.

If those are all right then you may want to do a leak down on some cylinders to make sure that those cylinders are not leaking through the valves due to contact with the pistons.
 

Mike Brunton

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jp,

Check there isn't an intake restriction (i.e. make sure you are getting air).

Also, check the mechanical timing (cam to crank). I will admit I've screwed up and used BDC instead of TDC before and it runs like you mentioned. Also make sure the plug wires are connected to the right plugs - that can make it run very bad also.
 
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jp

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Tomorrow will I start to work with the Viper again.
I just learned from the book that there is a special procedure regarding the Camshaft sensor installation. I have a new Cam gear installed, maybe the sensor is to far away from the Cam gear..., I just plugged it in and tightened it?
I'll look into some of your ideas.
I will also give Dan a call tomorrow evening.

/Thanxs for the help guys!
 

HP

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Too bad you don't have 2 Vipers, then you could just unplug the cam sensor
connection to see if it simulated your condition.
We're all pulling for you, keep us updated.
P,S. I hope you have Doug and Dan's 1-800 number or a discount calling plan.
 
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jp

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Hahaaa...the cost for calling overseas is not a problem, it only cost about 10 cents a minute.
Been reading a bit more in the book, I think that the problem is my cam sensor. Since I didn't install the sensor correctly does the PCM only get information from the Crank sensor...If so does the ASD cut in. What is the symtom when the ASD is acivated?


Too bad you don't have 2 Vipers, then you could just unplug the cam sensor
connection to see if it simulated your condition.
We're all pulling for you, keep us updated.
P,S. I hope you have Doug and Dan's 1-800 number or a discount calling plan.
 

HP

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JP, do you have a powertrain diagnostic manual?
If not I saw one in the classified for about $35
Even if it's not your year model - most things are still relevant.

If not, I'll gladly relay it to you.
 

HP

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Even though the ASD and pump relays are on at starting, they shut down
within 1 sec if they fail to get a signal from the cam sensor.

What trouble codes are you getting?

If in doubt about the clearance of the sensor - just adjust it closer and
try again. While cranking the motor- Check the cam signal wire at the PCM (TN/YL), if you don't get the
required alternating 5v and 0.3v then the sensor is not sending a signal.
 
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jp

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I haven't checked any codes yet. What I have is a engine that get gas and spark but only fires on two cylinders on the right side...
How do I access the codes?
 
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jp

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Hugh, do you know what distance it should be between the sensor and the gear?
 

HP

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The codes will flash if you go through a sequence of key on, key off, key on
(I'm away from my manual right now so someone might want to verify that sequence).
The cam signal code is 54 (I think , someone with a book might verify)
You can also get a scan code reader, but since your car is pre 96 make sure
to get the right one.
 

HP

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Hugh, do you know what distance it should be between the sensor and the gear?

JP, I'm sure that someone that regular sets up motors would know,
It's not listed in any of the Viper tech manuals that I have, but I am
at my apartment and all my books are at my house.
It's a Hall effect type sensor - and I have a book that lists this clearance distance at
my house - I'll try to get to that in a minute if someone else does't post it.
Usually you get it as close as you can without the chance of collision.

I'll check back if someone doesn't list this.
 

HP

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Since I don't use the key cycle thing - I had forgot it so I did a search
Cycle the Key on/off 3 times and leave on - then count the flashing indicator
light - it will flash then stop and flash again - count the flashes on each
sequence.
 
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jp

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Checked the codes today...just 12, 23, 37 and the 55 code...nothing that indicates the problems I have. The Camshaft sensor was mounted about 0.025" from the Cam gear, so that was probably not the problem. The story continues...
 

HP

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The codes are helpful, but they don't cover a lot of the basic problems.
My usual check list is to check for spark on each cylinder, which is easiest
for me - by hooking up a timing light and clamping the pick up to each
spark plug wire. Then check the injectors to see if each is working -
they sell a cheap plug in light module at most auto places, or you can listen
to each with a stethoscope. Make sure you have compression on the compression stroke, either screw in
a compression gauge - or just put your finger over the spark plug hole and
make sure its blowing every other rev. Screw in a compression gauge
to the ********* in your intake to see if you have adequate fuel pressure(be careful since there already should be residual compression- go by the manual
instructions) Look under your hood in the dark as someone cranks the motor,
usually you can pick up mis-fires or arcing electrical problem.
Good luck
 
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jp

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The problem was in the camshaft. It was "pinned" 5.5 degrees wrong from manufacturer. So when we did the installation we had to move the sprocket one tooth to get the camshaft where we wanted it. By doing that din't the Cam sensor and the Crank sensor syncronize. I just had to do an adjustable Gen1 Cam gear. The offset bushing is visible in the picture.
You must be registered for see images


btw. the engine rocks, I pulled a 10.80 in my first run, that without any fuel or ignition tuning.
With a better 60 foot and some tuning will I hit a 10.60 on motor only, that's not bad for a Gen1.
 

Larry Macedo

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Was the camshaft purchased from Crower, JP?

Larry,you took the words right out of my mouth

I once used Crower products exclusively, but decided to part company when a certain someone within the company recommended I index the cam one tooth off to bring it anywhere close to the opening and closing specs. This would work if we didn't have a window to work in due to the cam sensor. JP, if you put that cam in off one tooth you will have a great bottom end, but your car will suffer over 5500 revs and act as if your car is shutting down or as if your springs were faulty or floating. Crower is very aware of this problem and shame on them for selling you a cam if you just purchased it within the past few weeks. A representative called both my company and Dan Cragin to try and rectify this situation and I can tell you I have heard nothing from them in weeks. If it were me, I'd pull that cam out of your car and send it packing. Oh, make sure they pay the INTL shipping both ways too...That'll make em real happy.
 
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jp

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Was the camshaft purchased from Crower, JP?

Larry,you took the words right out of my mouth

I once used Crower products exclusively, but decided to part company when a certain someone within the company recommended I index the cam one tooth off to bring it anywhere close to the opening and closing specs. This would work if we didn't have a window to work in due to the cam sensor. JP, if you put that cam in off one tooth you will have a great bottom end, but your car will suffer over 5500 revs and act as if your car is shutting down or as if your springs were faulty or floating. Crower is very aware of this problem and shame on them for selling you a cam if you just purchased it within the past few weeks. A representative called both my company and Dan Cragin to try and rectify this situation and I can tell you I have heard nothing from them in weeks. If it were me, I'd pull that cam out of your car and send it packing. Oh, make sure they pay the INTL shipping both ways too...That'll make em real happy.

Crower...yes! (Bought in January)
We indexed the cam one tooth of and the engine din't even start. Then we did the bushing and indexed it at 111 degrees, and I can promise that there is nothing wrong with the camshaft it self.
If I have to pull the cam do I not only need a new cam, I do also want compensation for Head gaskets, Lifters and ofcourse an new camgear.
I'm giving them a chance to sort this out in a gentlemens way before I start to argue...thats my way.
Thanxs for all help guys!
/JP
 

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