Thread: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

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  1. #1
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    Default Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    I recently got some great literature on Procharger on their concealed gear unit of 4.4 to 1 and self contain oil system.

    It was pretty obvious in their literature who they were comparing their products to (Paxton/Vortech). I don't know if Paxton Novi 2000 uses a gear step down system or not, but what do you guys think about Paxton products vs. Procharger? (Leave customer service out of this because we all know Paxton will fail 100% in this area)...so I am just talking technology and durability on both.

    I know of a lot of people that have had problems with their Novi 2000 but haven't heard anything with the procharger. They could have been 1 off cases, but who knows.


    Price wise, who is more expensive?


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    In my mustang days, I loved the prochargers. I still love them. I'd recommend them. They are reliable and their customer service is excellent!

    JD

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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    In my mustang days, I loved the prochargers. I still love them. I'd recommend them. They are reliable and their customer service is excellent!

    JD
    I'm with him, I know a ton of guys with Stangs running Prochargers or Vortech's with great reliability and awsome power. Paxton sucks, you hardly see any of the guys running them at the track here anymore b/c they got sick of the reliability problems and customer service. With the centrifugal superchargers (and roots) there really isn't that much difference between all the company's, some use the same design, of course they might have their own little features etc, but I don't know what it is about Paxton and problems with their units. Doesn't DLM use Paxton also though with obviously good success?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    Yep, my DLM has a Paxton in it. Why I am typing here instead of driving right now, is beyond me.

    -Manny

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    My DLM car runs awesome on the paxton. I _do_ love that blower, but from the DIY world, my preference was towards the ATI.

    But don't think for a second that the Paxton isn't good... This thing kicks some serious butt!

    JD

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    I have a Paxton on my DLM car and it kicks a$$. More than enough power!
    Most people ask me if I have a Procharger on my Viper.... I say no, a Paxton, and they look at me like with a big surprise on their face.
    But If it weren't for Doug Levin I probably would have a Procharger. You wonder if Paxton will keep up with the competition? They don't seem to be doing much in the racing seen right now either. I think Paxton is more after the Import seen and people are shocked to see it on a Viper.

    -Lou

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    Didn't Treynor have a DLM Procharger for a while but it made so much power and noise that he had to take it off? I thought they got 1100rwhp out of it or something like that but it was "undrivable" with anything but slicks and very noisy.

    I think with these huge motors, we are barely taxing the blowers. It is whenn you have 300+/- cu.in's putting out 1000hp that you really push the blowers and realize their strengths and weaknesses. 10-12 pounds is nothing for a centrifugal blower. Push 25+ pounds of boost with race gas on a Viper V-10 and watch out dyno, drivetrain and tires!

    Chad

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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    I've got a paxton 2000 and it's flawless. The only thing that's happened is the bearings went in one of my pulleys once.

    G

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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    the bearings in the paxton or something else?

    If it was the paxton, it's like saying, "yeah...I love fords and they are great cars besides the engine going out on it."

    Sounds to me maybe the Paxton isn't so tough compared to the procharger.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    I take back what I said earlier, call a tuner, PLEASE!!!!!

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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    ATI Procharger

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    cmon ab, it was the pulley. Can't you read?
    Perhaps you just need to go to a tuner and quit waisting your $$ ! ?

    G

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    cmon ab, it was the pulley. Can't you read?
    Perhaps you just need to go to a tuner and quit waisting your $$ ! ?

    G
    What pulley are you talking about? The one that is attached to the Paxton?

    As far as going to a tuner would have no impact on whether Paxton is junk compared to procharger. Still sounds like Procharger is more reliable and better designed.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    ab said:
    As far as going to a tuner would have no impact on whether Paxton is junk compared to procharger.
    Wrong.

    I've been flogging my Paxton Novi 2000 daily for months now. No problems yet.

    Quit complaining and get DLM or DC Performance to install and tune your ****e. They know Paxton blowers better than Paxton itself when it comes to vipers.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    ab said:
    As far as going to a tuner would have no impact on whether Paxton is junk compared to procharger.
    Wrong.

    I've been flogging my Paxton Novi 2000 daily for months now. No problems yet.

    Quit complaining and get DLM or DC Performance to install and tune your ****e. They know Paxton blowers better than Paxton itself when it comes to vipers.

    Who say's I'm complaining? I don't read anywhere where I was complaining.

    I am simply asking which is better. Give it some time and keep "flogging" your Novi. I know several Mustang guys with Novi 2000's that have had problems with interals after a while. So far the issues I have seen here are almost identical to the ones some have described in this thread and other threads.

    Did you install your own system? Do you know anything about your system? Just curious if you even know your A/F ratio...but that is a whole another subject there. You may have had someone else install your system which there is nothing wrong with that but the Paxton system is pretty straight foward as far as install goes and it maxes out the stock injectors with it's set up. They use cheap parts and seemed to do very little research on the tuning part.

    but none the less..a/f has nothing to do with the reliability of the Paxton unit itself.

    By the way, I hope you change out your crank damper because that thing could come flying off and hit your bullet proof novi. But I don't know..maybe you have the special edition Novi that no one else has.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    What's your beef with Paxton ab? So you messed up an install. It's not the end of the world.

    ab said:
    Did you install your own system? Do you know anything about your system? Just curious if you even know your A/F ratio...but that is a whole another subject there.
    "whole another subject there."?

    Take it easy tiger... I didnt install mine but I know a tiny bit about it


    By the way, I hope you change out your crank damper because that thing could come flying off and hit your bullet proof novi. But I don't know..maybe you have the special edition Novi that no one else has.
    No special Novi here, but that's why I had someone qualified do the install. You see.... they usually suggest things like pinning/keying the dampner, and other things after their 15th or 20th install.

    And Yes, If you've got a bunch of other mods you need to address the fuel issue.

    I'm not trying to crawl up your ass ab, but am I the only one to notice your bias?

    Dave

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    Yes, you should pin the crank damper on the stock unit, but the casting can fail like a lot of other people's dampers have on their modded cars. I talked with ATI and their damper (from summit $417) will do the trick to ensure it will handle the power gains without worrying about breaking the stock damper. The good thing about the ATI damper is that it's the same dimension as the stock damper so that way it will not offset your paxton crank pulley.

    I know you are not trying to crawl up my butt. So I am not offended or mad.

    I wished I did a little more research on the Paxton unit because like most will agree...non viper owner or Viper owner....Paxton's customer service and line of BS they give is not good. Procharger seemed to be different. But I am sure besides the customer service side of things, each has their strengths and weakness which is what I was curious about.

    No big deal. I have a Novi 2000 and hope it will never break. I do check the oil lines every oil change to make sure it's not clogged. That would not be good! What I'm not too big about either is that the oil that Paxton uses from the engine doesn't help out with the heat issue of a centerfugal supercharger. And no I didn't mess up on the install of the Paxton. You are wrong on that, I just found what is wrong with the kit.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    I did have a Procharger F2 on my car for a while. It was WAAY over the top for a street car - 32 PSI of boost, wheelspin through 150 MPH in 4th, hair-trigger throttle, and loud as sh*t. The Novi2000 race & 15 PSI of boost makes for a much better streetcar, although I will admit that I occasionally think about that F2. It's human nature to want the nastiest thing out there, even if you wouldn't want to actually drive it. I suppose whoever buys the Beast could always ask Doug to put the F2 back on... the engine'll tolerate it, and the bracketry still exists.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    What is the difference of the Novi 2000 race verses the Novi 2000? Impellers?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    I believe a cryo-treated impeller and an extrude-honed scroll.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    Well treynor...All I know is that you rock! You definitely have a beast and that procharger set up sounds mean!

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    My DLM car is faaaast and reliable BUt ppl do ask me if i have a turbo or a procharger Dont know why. i think paxton and vortech are the same company now. Does anybody know if they are still into the race circuit.

    Max

  23. #23

    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    Hello all. This is my first post here so let me introduce myself. I am the Marketing Manager for Vortech and Paxton. Vortech bought Paxton a couple of years back in case some of you did not know. We have done many great things to the quality of the Paxton units from this merger. The Paxton of old is gone and we look forward to a great future. I want to answer a few questions posted here. First Paxton is not going after the import market, Vortech is doing that. Paxton is involved in Mustang racing. The NOVI uses engine oil which is far superior to self-contained. Why is that? Well, let me quote here:

    "The maintenance-free lubrication system uses engine oil that is pre-filtered and injected directly onto the drive gears. We chose this configuration as opposed to a "self-contained" set-up because engine oil provides faster warm-up, excellent reliability and superior cooling. The lubrication oil benefits from continuous filtration, being routinely changed along with the engine oil (instead of an additional maintenance action). This system also offers the best opportunity for thermally stable operation."

    Think about it...if the unit is self contained, where does all the heat that is developed from friction go?

    ab...a few things we need to clear up. There are two companies that are called ATI. One makes Procharger and the other makes pulleys and dampners. I wanted to make sure that you knew that the dampner you were inquiring about from Summit was in fact not a Procharger dampner. It seems in all your posts that you get wound up and then say "no big deal". Which one is it? I am sure everyone here knows that your car is not stock. Our system is made for stock vehicles. When you go and change even the smallest part, it could effect the tune and cause serious problems to your motor. This is why we recommend and put tuners like Doug Levin, DC and RSI in our ads, we want to make sure you are getting a safe and reliable setup. I don't see you saying anywhere that you have many modifications done to your Viper. Should I get the list of these and post them up for all to see? I don't want my first post to come off like I am an A--hole, but it seems your bitterness is never ending.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    Steve,

    Let me post what I have for mods.

    Stock Engine. Stock internals. Cat back system which in your manual says use the larger disc of the 8 to 1.
    Anything else you post would be a flat out lie like your previous fast talking rep Kelly did to sell kits.

    When I talk about ATI, I am talking about the high quailty parts they make for a crank Damper.

    Now if I was talking about the Paxton system, then we would be talking lean conditions and cheap parts! Not to mention your lousy customer service. I am not the only one that thinks your company has horrible service.

    As far as you saying your car is only for the Gen II's and 2000 on up...Take a look at your manual. It say's for 1996-2002 Dodge Vipers. No where in your literature does it say not meant for 1996-1999 vipers. If you even understood some of the specs of the Viper you would realize that the 2000-2002 viper would be more prone to effected by your cheap useless fuel system. One of your tuners which you deal with even admitted that the Paxton system is way too lean.

    You got your power gains from running the car lean and that's probobly how you got the car to pass smog.

    If anyone buys this kit and knows half of what it's about, you would realize that Paxton has no interest in telling you the truth. Sure you can get the A/F ratio down with larger injectors and modding the Paxton system, but in your stock form, the car will get heat soaked, run lean, and most likely burn up you pistons. I can go on and there are several people that will agree with what I say..oh guess what..they are the 2000-2002 vipers. Say what you want...but the truth will come out soon enough.

    Why don't you explain what the big difference in the 1996 - 1999vipers vs. the 2000-2002 vipers are and how that is going to effect everything in a big way.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    Man this is what I'm talking about, you don't know who I am or what experience I have yet you say I understand nothing about the Viper's Specs. I have all your posts here about your modifications and I will list them. First, I just want to mention that if the car was lean, it would not pass the ARB test. But I guess your the expert and I am not. So these are a few things about you...

    On 4/26/04 under the post "Is anyone running just straight pipes out their exhaust system?" you wrote "I have the B&B set up with 3" canisters type straight through (no cats) design...

    On 1/06/04 under the post which was started by you "I am now able to program my own computer on my SC system!" you wrote "Can't wait to play around with it on the dyno! I have full control of air/fuel and timing!" another post shows "I needed something that I could advance timing and the software I obtained will work."

    On 1/08/04 under the post which was started by you "can this make you run lean on force induction engines?" you said "If you have no cats will that contribute to running lean since there is no back pressure?"

    On 2/14/04 under the post which was started by you "I need help on this topic of fuel and force induction" you wrote "..I have installed my own paxton supercharger and love it to death besides the tuning part. That part I am learning as I go....I was dissappointed in my dyno results...but that is because my car needs major tuning...I have a meth alcohol injection system on my car...My car is running lean and I also have a smaller pulley on it..."


    I can have some well respected tuners post on here about you but I think this should be enough to show the rest of you what ab is all about.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    Man this is what I'm talking about, you don't know who I am or what experience I have yet you say I understand nothing about the Viper's Specs. I have all your posts here about your modifications and I will list them. First, I just want to mention that if the car was lean, it would not pass the ARB test. But I guess your the expert and I am not. So these are a few things about you...

    On 4/26/04 under the post "Is anyone running just straight pipes out their exhaust system?" you wrote "I have the B&B set up with 3" canisters type straight through (no cats) design...

    On 1/06/04 under the post which was started by you "I am now able to program my own computer on my SC system!" you wrote "Can't wait to play around with it on the dyno! I have full control of air/fuel and timing!" another post shows "I needed something that I could advance timing and the software I obtained will work."

    On 1/08/04 under the post which was started by you "can this make you run lean on force induction engines?" you said "If you have no cats will that contribute to running lean since there is no back pressure?"

    On 2/14/04 under the post which was started by you "I need help on this topic of fuel and force induction" you wrote "..I have installed my own paxton supercharger and love it to death besides the tuning part. That part I am learning as I go....I was dissappointed in my dyno results...but that is because my car needs major tuning...I have a meth alcohol injection system on my car...My car is running lean and I also have a smaller pulley on it..."


    I can have some well respected tuners post on here about you but I think this should be enough to show the rest of you what ab is all about.

    Hey Steve Padfield for a marketing director, I would go seek other employment because you basically suck at what you do.

    Yes, I have B&B cat back set up with no cats which I told Kelly about and he said "no problem on that and use the 8:1 disk." I would be okay with that mod. So I trusted him.

    I found out I have the Split Sec Computer that would be able to control the injectors and timing. I understood that you would have to mod the Map which I have not done due to not wanting to mess with any warranty issues. I don't know anything about how that works. When I found out that these are things that would need someone with understanding, then I left it alone. But in stock Paxton Kit form, you don't need the A/F ratio part of the box to be used according to the instructions. THe only part you utilize is the timing map and also the voltage outputs.

    Yes I have a water/METH injection system on my car which will not cause the car to run lean in boost situations. I did that because of lack of fuel under boost situations with your cheap ass kit. No I do not have a smaller pulley on it after I found out that would void my warranty and cause my car to run even more lean than what your paxton kit does already I LEFT IT ALONE.

    Please have these well respected tuners post some things on here. I wish you would do that. I would love what they have to say about me or your kit.

    One thing I know is you avoid the question of what your basic kit is all about you can try to discredit me all you want, but I'm not the only person in this boat. Yeah you can have other turners richen up this kit, but you advertise this kit a turn key kit that you can do yourself.

    WHY DON'T YOU EXPLAIN WHY THE 2000-2002 VIPERS ARE SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE 1996-1999 VIPERS AND HOW IT WON'T WORK ON THOSE YEARS. Also explain on how you max out the stock fuel system to where it could go static and go kaboom. Why don't you explain the heat soaked issues that the kit will expirence in hot summer weather with your little mustang heat exchanger you used for the viper and a small oil cooler that will not cool the charge off. I can go on and will.

    So Stevie "I don't give a rat's ass about any customers that have issues" because from what history shows, paxton just say's "no" and doesn't own up to mistakes you maKe or take responsibilty for it.

    ANYONE CONSIDERING DOING A PAXTON KIT, I WOULD AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE! GO WITH A ROE SET UP WHO DOES CARE ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS. THE NOVI 2000 CHARGER IS NOT A BAD CHARGER IT'S THE KIT THAT THEY PRODUCED WITH CHEAP PARTS AND CHEAP CUSTOMER SERVICE.

    STEVE, I WOULD'NT BE SPENDING MY TIME TRYING TO DISCREDIT ME, BUT MAYBE GO DO YOUR JOB AND MAKE CUSTOMERS HAPPY. GO DO YOUR JOB! IF I WANTED THIS KIND OF SERVICE, I WOULD HAVE GONE TO ARBY'S WHICH AT LEAST THEY HAVE A PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE TRAINED IN CUSTOMER SERVICE THAN YOU're YOUR COMPANY!

    You're title and position means nothing to me since you don't do your job!


  27. #27

    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    I have posted everything I wanted to say on this topic to you. Your pop shots on my credibility only show how you will say anything to appear to have the upper hand. I will let the readers make their own choice.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    wow, what a piss match! ab no flame to you but my car has a Paxton and runs great. Why don't you have a tuner look at your car and get it tuned right? You can have a fast car.

    Max

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    I have posted everything I wanted to say on this topic to you. Your pop shots on my credibility only show how you will say anything to appear to have the upper hand. I will let the readers make their own choice.
    Pop shots at your creditability? Your company has created it's own history with events like this. You don't own up to issues like the other tuners do. I know if something goes wrong with a product, the tuners here are quick to fix it in a reasonable time such as DLM, Roe, Heffner and so on. Paxton? No! You made the bed you lay in.

    I don't just say anything without cause. This isn't about the upper hand and I really could careless about a pissing match. This is just the facts about your under developed product which it sounds like you don't know anything about. Before you start throwing stones at your customers....look at your company first.

    How about customers who bought your system make their own choice. Readers can have their own opinion that have no first hand experience with your company, but the real test would be to ask Mustang owners, Viper owners, vette owners and whatever else products your company made. I personally don't think the Novi 2000 unit is bad, it's the design of your kit that your company cheesed out on...which in the long run could cost the owner their engine.

    Why don't you answer the question about the 1996-1999 and 2000-2002 Vipers?

    1. beacause you don't know
    2. because you do know and don't want to admit fault
    3. You just like to lie to make a sale.

    Maybe I should have never been sold the kit because I will learn everything there is about it and I did and found that your kit is lacking big time if you don't do the following:

    1. Change the fuel system
    2. Scrap the air to water cooling system with your PLASTIC HOSE CLAMPS
    3. The belt tensioner which allows slippage (very cheap tensioner)
    4. The cheap cross member that will weaking the supporting front suspension that is provided with the kit

    So what is basically left that is good is the Novi 2000 (if the internals don't fail). and bracket to hold the novi 2000 up.

    You got a lot of work to do there stevie... not just with Viper owners that hav had problems but also the numerous other cars that you make them for. I should have listened to the warnings I heard before I bought the system from Paxton. If you think your company has a great reputation..that just even shows me you have no clue on your job responsibilities are. If it were my company, you would be fired!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Opinions about Paxton vs. Procharger

    wow, what a piss match! ab no flame to you but my car has a Paxton and runs great. Why don't you have a tuner look at your car and get it tuned right? You can have a fast car.

    Max

    max no flame towards you, but Paxton advertised this as being a safe kit for DYI like a roe kit. Roe's support is 1000% there. Paxton just has fast talking people like Kelly or used to have them on staff. The rest of the people on the staff just have an IQ big enough to say "no!" "It's not our fault".

    The kit is a pretty straight forward kit to put on. You don't mess with the box. Yes there are little things here and there you can do to help with it, but again the issue is that Paxton lied about installation and the kit being safe. Your car will get heat soaked and I am sure Paxton has a ton of timing retard put into it.

    There are many people that may not post about this kit on this board, but I have names and numbers that had a proffessional install it with the same results. And yes..they have the magical year viper "2000-2002" according to Paxton.

    Understand your kit and the weak points. The car may act like it's doing great while driving but that doesn't really mean it is on the inside.

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