Does anyone use Mobil 1 0W40 synthetic?

ERDOC

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Does anyone use Mobil 1 0W40 synthetic? This is the original and recommended oil for my 911 turbo. Just wondering if anyone else is using it? It seems to make sense using the thinnest possible formulation at startup and also having the resistance to thermal breakdown of a 40 weight oil.
 

Steve-Indy

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ERDOC, I tried to stir interest in the same question about 2 yrs. ago...following the Panorama had the article REMOVING Mobil 1 10W30 from the list of approved Porsche oils for those driven in AMBIENT TEMPS ABOVE 86 degrees...raised some interesting questions in MY mind. Will be interested in what follows in this thread.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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OK, my two cents.

First, definition of thermal breakdown: about a certain temperature additives and base oils deteriorate much more quickly. Additives in synthetics and minerals oils are essentially the same, perhaps in a little different ratio. That number is around 300F, perhaps another 50F for synthetics, but if you are up there... something else is going to melt also. Anyway, thermal breakdown is when the oil starts to polymerize and turn dark, form varnish, deposits, and usually it thickens.

Normally, as an oil get hotter, it gets thinner. The viscosity index improver is an additive that decreases this thinning rate. So even though an SAE 0W40 is thinner at 100C than at 0C, it isn't as thin as it would have been if it didn't have the VII.

Multigrade oils are formulated by selecting the base oil in order to meet the low temperature properties and the amount of VII is added to meet the high temperature viscosity. Note that it is not the other way around - it is not an SAE 40 that somehow behaves like a 0W, it is a 0W that is thickened to behave like an SAE 40. So a poorer quality VII, one that is not shear stable, will thin out more and permanently at high temperatures. This is the opposite result of thermal breakdown, where it will thicken!

Castrol is to blame for their ads about thermal breakdown, viscosity breakdown and so on - technically all things that are important, but confusing since they run all the ideas together.

One last lesson - a synthetic base oil has greater inherent multi-grade properties than a base oil, so you need less VII to formulate a synthetic 5W-30 than a mineral 5W-30.

What does all this mean in regards to the 0W-40? If the VII is not shear stable, in time, it will behave like a 0W-30. The odds of a Mobil synthetic oil doing that are reasonably low; it's a premium product, it carries European claims, both European and US engine oil performance specs require some level of shear stability, and as noted, there is less VII in the formulation, so and degradation will have less of an effect.

ERDOC, you are otherwise correct - thin at start up and thick (relatively) when hot. That is ideal.

Steve, your question is more complicated. A 10W30 is not common in Europe, so it's unlikely to have Euro performance claims (or as many.) If it's recommended for a US market car, the oil drains might be shorter than the same car in Europe. A 0W-40, however, is almost specific to Europe, so it will be formulated for that market, that OEM, and maybe almost that car. While the first impression might be the 10W30 is too thin, it might very well be that the 10W30 additive package is not as robust as the 0W40 additive package. (No, I didn't look it up yet.)
 

ViperJoe

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Tom, the oil Guru!

You heard of this new Castrol "Start-Up"? For protection during start-up the hardest time on a motor........
 

Tom F&L GoR

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All oils contain "polarized molecules," (also known as friction modifiers) superior wear protection, protection against thermal breakdown, etc. They are making a "monadic" claim; they say they do it and consumers may assume they do it better, although they didn't really say they did it better!

It's actually pretty shallow that they claim better starting without offering a lower viscosity grade, like a 5W-40, 0W-30, or similar.

First line of defence in start up protection is lower "W" viscosity, although when is the last time you saw a car towed to the junk yard because of excessive starting? Oils and engines are pretty hardy these days.
 
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ERDOC

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Tom,
Great explanation! Would YOU use 0W40 vs factory recommended 10W30? Based on your explanation, it sounds like the 0W40 is a better choice.
 

Steve-Indy

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As always, Tom, thanks for your insights. Those of us who know only enough to raise questions REALLY NEED the expert guidence that you offer so graciously. The more that I visit the "oil boards/sites" the more confused the picture can become...an inherent fault in reading non peer reviewed material from a rookie perspective. "Opinion" and "series-of-one" are indeed common whereas large scale, controlled studies, with appropriate stats are hard to come by for us "armchair petrochem experts".
 

ViperJoe

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Based on a previous thread and Tom's informative info concerning deisel engine lubricating oils, I am tempted to go with it on my ****** car first.
 

Steve-Indy

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I know several folks who have been running Mobil's Delvac 1 5W40 in their Vipers for at least a couple of years...all quite HAPPY.
 

FE 065

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If a small gain in horsepower is part of the reason for wondering about using a thinner oil, I don't think I'd risk trading what little gain there might be, for possible insufficient oil protection.


There's other ways of picking up a few hp or hundredths of a sec that won't endanger the entire engine. :)


:usa:
 

V10 MOJO

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i change my oil so damnn often i truly dont think it matters at all what type is used. Ive went from mobil1 to royal purple and several in between. i kinda think the car ran best (drag racing) on the royal purple but that was just a feeling so who knows...
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Sure, I'd use a 0W-40. The OEMs will never recommend it because they do not allow xxW-40 oils to participate in the fuel economy segment of ILSAC GF-4 (the starburst symbol on the front of the oil bottle.)

Thanks, Steve.

FE 065, it's not that risky. The "protection" that we all worry about is provided by the "-40" portion, and you can loosely think of the 0W part as an indication of taking less effort to pump the fluid throughout the engine. You can separate the two characteristics, since in the pump, it's a bulk fluid, only at ~60 psi, and essentially at the average oil pump temperature. In the bearing, it is subjected to 1000's of psi, is being sheared via the stationary bearing and the moving journal, in film thicknesses of a thousandth of an inch, and sees a momentary spike in temperature.

In some engines, pumping the oil consumes a chunk of power (like 20hp, I want to say. I may be remembering diesel engine pumps, which pump tens of gallons per minute at low rpm and not smaller 8-liter engine oil pumps that run twice as fast. Anybody help?)

To give you a sense of scale, (and this depends on the application) going from the good old 20W50 "racing oil" to a low-low viscosity friction modified oils now used in the top level professional race series is worth 15-20 hp (out of 750 to 850 hp.)
 

FE 065

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Years ago my '94RT/10 was not factory filled with Mobil 1. I still remember changing it to Mobil 1, then going out a few days later for a drive and wondering, "Why is the car revving easier?". Then I remembered I'd changed to the synthetic...


I'd be interested in how 0W compares to 10W in applications where an engine has high vacuum in the crankcase and oil being 'pulled' off of bearings or rockers can be a hazard.



Thanks for the clarification(s) Tom!


:)
 
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ERDOC

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Tom,
Thanks for the valuable input. Intuitively it always made sense to use 0W40 but to get an objective reason why it works is most reassuring. Again thanks!
 

Torquemonster

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Good reading!

:2tu:

One sign of an oil being too thin for that engine is a noticable increase in valvetrain noise.... tip before comparing however - take real good notice of the valvetrain noise BEFORE changing the oil, then change and compare (you can't hurt the engine by trying it)....

Reason for taking real good note before is because your memory will be subjective i.e. you will IMAGINE more noise if you think the oil is thinner (which it isn't once warm).

in theory - a 10W/30 oil will be more stable than a 0W/40 (other things being equal) - however the 0W/40 should actually offer better protection under heat than the 10W/30 if I understand Tom correctly - therefore it should be perfectly safe to use!

I've used 0W/30 Castrol SLX successfully but not in a Viper, 0W/40 Mobil One is a good oil however, and better in the heat.

The shop next door is using Mobil 1 in their 830hp 9500rpm Sprint engine and getting a season out of an engine - I must find out what viscosity they are running

:cool:
 

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