" Snake Killer "

[xanadu]

Re:

I find it interesting/ironic that the same issues seen between the Vette ZO6 and the Viper are also being seen with our European brothers across the pond. They have the new Ferrari F430 with 490HP just now coming out and Lamborghini has announced an upgraded Gallardo said to be lighter than the original and increased from 500 to 600HP with a rumored release of 3rd quarter 2005 or earlier.

As Hirohawa said, the Viper has always been 50-100 HP ahead of the Vettes. Lamborghini saw this new Ferrari coming out, and instead of being content with a 10HP gain over this new F430, they went back to the board and quickly came up with some improvements for the Gallardo to keep it firmly 100HP ahead of the latest V-8 Ferrari.

DC needs to pull a Lamborghini, and quickly make the changes needed to ensure that the Viper is worth the cost over a Vette. I would like to see them stand by their faithful following by not only doing something big with the upcoming Coupe, but perhaps even offering a factory upgrade to the current SRT-10's (at discount). Extremely unlikely, but what a way to show customer appreciation!

Sometimes you have to give back to the peasants to ensure you remain the King.

 

[LW VIPER]

Re: Not Snake Killer...Snake Suicide

i have a 03 z06 and a srt 10, and a 500hp+ z 06 will be something that will give the viper fits, but it will still be a dime-a-dozen-vette no matter what it has

Spoken like the Ferrari Board about my former 96 RT/10 Viper..... no matter how fast your Viper is, it still won't be a Ferrari, after all, it's just a Dodge.

So now the Viper guys act the same way about the Vette.

I've owned both, currently in an 04 Vette, when my successful purchase of a 2000 RT/10 netted me a previously crashed car, and I backed out of the deal (but paid the forfeit cost to the owner).

If a used 2003 SRT is slower than a 2006 Z06, and still more expensive used than the Z06 new, and if the Z06 has a targa top, I will be very tempted by the "dime a dozen" Z06. Heads up display, tight fitting weather proof tops, no interior heat build up, better luggage space in a lighter vehicle, with equal horsepower and torque, for less money?

It will be very tempting.

Chevy is closing the gap quickly.

 

[LW VIPER]

Corvette Brethern

I personaly dont think Dodge ever even considered the vette to be competition for the viper. Totaly different market, with cars costing nearly twice as much.

GM wants to make the new z06 a competitor, by making it cost almost as much as a viper and have similar if not better performance.

Problem is that GM is going to make many current corvette owners very mad when they realize that the price of their bargain of the century is just shy of a viper.

Well, when I bought my C5 Corvette, everone expected the C6 to be much higher priced since they were going up from my 360/375 to 400/400. The prices actually came out a bit lower.

I think Chevy knows that the C5 owners (I've owned two Corvettes and one Viper so far), will not pay $70,000 for a Z06. I predict that the base price will be $59,900 or so, and that the cars (after the dealer mark up stuff is over) will sell for $65,000 putting it about $20,000 below the Viper for the same performance, with additional stuff like the Heads Up Display.

It is going to get interesting next year.

 

[Ooomph]

Re: Corvette Brethern

The problem with Corvettes is that you have to slow down to see if it's a C6 or third gen Z06

Seriously, a 500hp Vette will be fast, stylish and a serious force to be reckoned with but it will still be one of 30-thousand cars with the same body type. Hell, my 2000 V6 Mustang can look like an '03 Cobra or Saleen with a body kit...

My Viper (in my neck of the woods) is exclusive, rare and dead-**** (not to mention quick and fast...). My SRT, by the way, is one of 390 Bright Silver Metallics made for '03... That's actually the reason I sold my C5, I liked the Vette, I just didn't like seeing everybody and their brother driving them...

Hooray for Chevy if they build a "SnakeKiller", I say bring it. Realistically, at $60k-ish, it'll be a low production, exclusive car -- that will totally blend in with every other C6 on the road...

 

[LW VIPER]

Re: Corvette Brethern

The problem with Corvettes is that you have to slow down to see if it's a C6 or third gen Z06

Seriously, a 500hp Vette will be fast, stylish and a serious force to be reckoned with but it will still be one of 30-thousand cars with the same body type. Hell, my 2000 V6 Mustang can look like an '03 Cobra or Saleen with a body kit...

My Viper (in my neck of the woods) is exclusive, rare and dead-**** (not to mention quick and fast...). My SRT, by the way, is one of 390 Bright Silver Metallics made for '03... That's actually the reason I sold my C5, I liked the Vette, I just didn't like seeing everybody and their brother driving them...

Hooray for Chevy if they build a "SnakeKiller", I say bring it. Realistically, at $60k-ish, it'll be a low production, exclusive car -- that will totally blend in with every other C6 on the road...

Understood. There are few cars I like the look of better than the Viper, in fact, for me, the 2002 and older models because they are so radical looking.

Having driven the 2003 SRT 10 at Skip Barber, then driving my 96 RT/10 home, I appreciated the major difference in brakes, and some civility in the interior.

I could easily be back in a Viper in a heart beat. And probably will be late next year when the SRTs start dropping below $60,000.

But still, a Z06 targa might be relatively exclusive,and may best the current SRT -10 Might be good if Daimler/Chrysler/Dodge tweaked the SRT for the next generation, particularly the Coupe to come.

 

[kaval]

Re: Corvette Brethern

is anyone at DC listenning??? Give us a little teaser.

I mean tidbits of info on the new z06 could be had 4 months ago...

oh well i guess i can wait another 2 weeks...

 

[RavenFan_94]

Re: Corvette Brethern

But still, a Z06 targa might be relatively exclusive,

I think that this pretty much says it all. When you are guessing which 'version' of the car is across from you at the stoplight, you lose all sense of exclusvity.

I don't know whether to give a wave to the SRT-4 or the WRX guys, cause I can't tell the car from the others whilst on the road.

That is the difference between the Viper and Corvette. Both great, cars. One, just a graduated version of the former.

 

[xanadu]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

Has no one given consideration that this C6 Z06 is a hard top, or at best a targa, not a full convertible like the SRT-10 is? The added weight for a convertible option is generally around 200 to 300 extra pounds. You cannot compare with any sense of relativity a coupe with a convertible with the added weight against the convertible. I don't know what the weight is of an SRT-10 off hand, but for a slightly more judgable state, subtract 200 lbs off of that weight and compare this new weight with the 3130 suggested weight of the Z06 in a HP/LB ratio.

I would expect the Z06 would definitely not be doing any sort of "Snake Killing", if at all, if GM threw on a full convertible top.

I expect the new Coupe to shave off at least 220lbs for the convertible penalty alone. Coupe vs. Coupe will be an honest comparison.

 

[rbarta]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

xanadu - I don't buy the 200-300lbs savings convertible/coupe. The difference in weight between a C6 coupe and convertible is like 2 lbs. The C5 coupe and Z06 differed by 117 lbs and that wasn't just from the hardtop, it had titanium exhaust, lighter wheels and non-runflat lighter tires. Who knows what the C6 Z06 will weigh in at, but rumour is that it will also save weight with aluminum frame, magnesium sub-frame and carbon fiber panels.

Also, there is rumour that there will be a Z06 convertible, so there will be your comparison.

The key is that Viper has already shown a much lighter 600hp version of the SRT-10 and I firmly believe that this will be their response (along with a hardtop version)

 

[Viperfreak2]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

THERE appears to be NO MONEY in the DC budget to drop 200lbs from the Viper coupe. It was obvious at VOI8. What they showed was a quickie version of what was coming. A quickie GTS. On the other hand, DC sure has it's act together in the secrecy department! Who knows what is really gonna happen at the Detroit Auto Show. Stay tuned.

 

[Guyver1]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

I'm more worried that it isn't that DC is being all secret, and more that DC just doesn't have anything new to show. All the rumors I've been hearing have been no performance increases until 2007MY at the latest.

 

[xanadu]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

xanadu - I don't buy the 200-300lbs savings convertible/coupe. The difference in weight between a C6 coupe and convertible is like 2 lbs. The C5 coupe and Z06 differed by 117 lbs and that wasn't just from the hardtop, it had titanium exhaust, lighter wheels and non-runflat lighter tires. Who knows what the C6 Z06 will weigh in at, but rumour is that it will also save weight with aluminum frame, magnesium sub-frame and carbon fiber panels.

Also, there is rumour that there will be a Z06 convertible, so there will be your comparison.

The key is that Viper has already shown a much lighter 600hp version of the SRT-10 and I firmly believe that this will be their response (along with a hardtop version)

I didn't say ALL autos, just "in general". As an example, off the top of my head and being a Ferraristi first, I can say that the 360 Modena is approx 150 lbs lighter than the 360 Spyder. The Volkswagen Beetle has a 200lb difference between coupe and convertible. This is just a general thing automotively speaking. However, kudos to GM for being able to keep the weight down to a 2 lb difference, that's impressive.

The other factors for weight savings are impressive too, but it's still not fair at an attempt to compare the two. What is fair is to compare the latest Z06 convertible with the latest SRT-10. This is not the CURRENT generation Vette your talking about, but yet you're trying to compare it with the current generation Viper, which has been out now for over 2 years. This is an ALL NEW generation for the Vette, and the dang thing hasn't even been officially revealed yet! Every generation is always better than its predecessor. GM has had a few years to work on this new generation, so it should not be a surprise that it is substantially better. DC made a substantially better Viper with the release of the SRT-10. I would be extremely surprised if the engine guys at DC have been doing nothing over the last few years but sitting around reading magazine articles about the hot rodding Z06 Vette that GM is working on for 2006, while the body design guys played with their computer Photoshop and Play-Doh trying to a get a decent looking coupe version, and upper management didn't care about what anyone was doing because they were too busy reading Lee Iacocca's latest book.

As I stated in an earlier post, Lamborghini saw the F430 coming from Ferrari for a few years and instead of watching it all happen and doing nothing, Lambo went to the drawing boards and came up with an improved Gallardo with lighter weight and 100 more HP.

Just as you couldn't fairly compare a base 65 convertible Mustang with a base 68 Camaro, you cannot compare a convertible SRT-10 with an all new 2003 generation year to an all new 2006 generation Vette coupe.

Am I the only one who sees it this way?

DC has not been reading magazines and doing nothing except being impressed; I would bet my company on it. If DC was going to release a coupe with no other upgrades to it than its convertible sibling, I think [it] would have been released at the exact same manufacturing year as the convertible model.

Something is up their sleeves . . . something is up their sleeves.

On another note, there is a VIP of sorts at the Z06Vette site with quite an apparent track record for leaking out true facts about Vettes long before anyone else does. This person has released many facts on the new Z06 and has stated that there will be "another" surprise to come. In a following post, someone mentioned a SMG option. His reply was that GM has been testing a SMG (for a few years???) but then would only reply with a "hmmmm". I'm beating this like a dead horse guys, DC has got to get with technology with an SMG. Period.

Peace and Merry CHRISTmas

For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given . . .And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6.

 

[Mopar426]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

Last I heard the production numbers on the C6 Z06 is supposed to be very low, similar the the ZR1 numbers and priced is expected near the $70K range. For those who doubt Vette owners will pay this, GM sold EVERY ZR1 the built at $70K in the early 1990's.

Next month we will found out is GM is full of BS or not. Would love to have a "new" 427 companion in the garage.

 

[SNAKEPILOT]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

I bought a new 91 ZR-1 for $20,000 under sticker. Most ended up selling at a large discount.

 

[Gianni]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

The Aluminum frame is confirmed on the ZO6.
Should be a light, Mean Mother. {but not the exclusive, drop dead **** Viper styling...at least I dont think so...)

Holy Crap. I bet the Viper Coupe will be just as exciting in terms of wondering what DC will do to punch up the performance.
You know they will. It's gonna be an amazing Car. It's been the performance target for years. Amazing that it's been the absolute king so long speaks volumes. I really want both....

How do the GTS Coupes Gen 2 handle compared with a current ZO6?
I drove my friends Viper convert. Amazing power at ANY RPM! But I didn't gets nuts out of respect to his property. So I dont know how they are in hard curves, etc...

When is the new GTS supposed to be relaesed? Is it under 100K ?

 

[TedK]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

Has anyone seen this? http://www.corvette-mag.com/art1/art1p1.html
Looking good, but since my "toy" car must me *******, I am still looking to the SRT.

 

[Vic]

Re: Apple Ain\'t An Orange Even if Round

Has anyone seen this? http://www.corvette-mag.com/art1/art1p1.html
Looking good, but since my "toy" car must me *******, I am still looking to the SRT.

Even though my 1989 C4 convertible Corvete was anemic by todays standards, it still had an effect on me at the time. At 29 years old, I didn't know any better! A modicum of style, quick top change, and enough oomph to dust off unsuspecting mini-vans, and kids on bikes. Sometimes I could take 'em at the light, even if they were hitting the gas!

Ah, the plastic Chevy! Those were the good ole days!

 

[MannyC]

Re:

You must be registered for see images

 

[SnakeBitten]

Re:

I like it but the airdam is not aggressive enough and not distinct enough from the C6.....Both c6 and c6 z06 have body color light surround...Shouldnt be...That would add distinctness to the Z if it alone had body color or blacked out surrounds....Here my Idea of how it may look a little better...I blcked the lite surround and lowered the airdam to give the front more substantialness..GM has finally caught the Viper in performance but it has a way to go on catching the Viper in looks. Regardless Id take one in a heartbeat.

 

[xanadu]

Re:

Vic,

John 3:16 back to you.

God Bless.

Peace and Merry <font color="red">CHRIST</font>mas

<font color="red">For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given . . .And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6.</font>

 

[PRVT JET]

Re:

Now it looks like it just finished 12 rounds with a Viper! Two black eyes!

 

[SnakeBitten]

Re:

Now it looks like it just finished 12 rounds with a Viper! Two black eyes!

lmao.....Or it got ko'd 8.7 seconds into the 1st round vs a Heffner TT Viper...

 

[BLWNASP]

Re:

it is the nature of the game. The Viper has been out in front especially for US sports cars for over a decade now, and Corvette finally does something about it. Oh well, I hope the Z06 is something great and we can watch those British auto programs rip on it, and talk about how yet another American auto is just not that good (except it wins every test).

We should support US sportscar dominance, or at least competition. Now here is the deal.

It appears DC has not been doing much research about the other supercars, or does not care. I say this because I was suprized to see the SRT come in at 500 horses. I thought they would go 550 to stay ahead. Now sportscars like the Z06 and Ferrari 430 are quickly catching up and will continue to do so.

If DC really wanted to make a statement and keep the Viper number 1 and ahead like it was when first introduced then were looking at a close to a 700 hp car. This is the equivalent of how kick a$$ the first Viper was back in 93 compared to nearly every other sports car. But the likelyhood of this happening is very slim let alone the legal issues that could arise. But this is what it would take.

Instead I think we should all just plan on supercharging our Vipers and leave it at that. This will keep us ahead where we should be because it's doubtfull DC will.

 

[Gerald]

Re:

I've said this on a couple other Viper / Vette threads...

The corvette will be fighting an uphill battle against the Viper as the viper has a huge advantage in displacement / cubes / cylinders. It will be FAR easier for the Viper to surpass the vette on it's next round...

The vette with the V8 is going to have to squeeze everthing out of it to comply to exhaust / emmisions / etc, out of the factory vs the V10..

G

Ding Ding!

Gerald

 

[Hirohawa]

Re:

Snakebitten-

Nice Job on the Chop. Looks way meaner than the original version.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Re:

Snakebitten-

Nice Job on the Chop. Looks way meaner than the original version.

Cant take a 500hp sportscar serious if it looks happy...

 

[speedpup]

Re:

The Z06 will be 75,000 + dealer rip. They will sell well also. They will also handle great. If you don't think they will hurt Viper sales greatly I respectfully disagree.

 

[Hirohawa]

Re:

Z06 will be $65K because the execs at GM are not morons. They will not sell beyongd teh first year without huge incentives. Historic fact (see ZR1)

Honestly at $75K most Vette guys would buy a Viper.