White Supremacy ? (White Oil Spheretech 0W40)

Parisianviper

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Hello everybody,
Sorry for the provocative title, but does anybody have used or heard about this Ceramic charged oil called
White oil? (It looks just like milk).
It's supposed to reduce by 65% internal friction, hence reducing noise, heat, engine wear, gas consumption and increasing power. It claims to be very stable at any temperature and it's low viscosity (0w40).
It's made by a company called Spheretech, it's expensive but supposed to be the best oil ever invented.
A friend is about to test it on its Viper, I'll post a follow-up.

A few links (Sorry, they're in french):
http://news.caradisiac.com/L-huile-blanche-Spheretech-0W40-une-veritable-revolution-301
http://www.spheretech-europe.com/huile_blanche_spheretech.aspx
 
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Parisianviper

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Here we go:
White oil Spheretech 0W40, a true revolution!!!

By Julien Taillandier on August 10, 2006 with 12h14 | 19 comment (S)


White oil like milk, here which appears at the very least unexpected. But you do not trust has this soft color which inspires calms and pleasure, this oil it is ultimate concentrate of technology which does not have equivalence or of competition on the market!! A true revolution in the world of lubrication.

This white color, Spheretech oil owes it with the presence of micro ceramics particles atomized (boron nitride) which gets exceptional properties to him. Manufacturing hot announces a thermal stability except standards, and an instantaneous lubrication cold, allowing to reduce by 4 mechanical wear lasting the first minutes of operation.

This oil is envisaged to be used on all types of motorizations gasoline, diesel, turbo gasoline, tdi, hdi etc. and perfectly adapted to an intensive use on circuit, or obviously to the road of the every day. indeed the reduction of friction of 65% entraine an optimization of the output, a saving in fuel and especially an incomparable exceptional reliability with all the existing products already on the market.



Moreover them it is recommended to space drainings every 20.000 kilometers minimum. and this some is the use.
 

Bonkers

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Re: White Supremacy ?

What was provocative in the title?

I think he was worried that it'll start another "white is faster than yellow"
thread which would lead into a lot of name calling and inapproprate pictures.

No worries Parisian, its all good.




I'd like to hear Tom F&L opinion on this stuff before even bothering to give it
consideration. I'm not sure about the mental implications of pouring a white
liquid into my motor, but on the upside it'll create a whole new realm of non-
PG jokes to annoy the auto-censors.
 

Vic

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Re: White Supremacy ?

TVC reads "white supremacy" and says, "Uh huh, yeah, and your point is?" Goes without saying, Chuck?

ParisianViper-
The translation reads like Alta Vista Babelfish, no?
 

Bonkers

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Re: White Supremacy ?

The translation reads like Alta Vista Babelfish, no?

TVC's married? One of them Philippine women get their hooks into you
Chucky? Come on, spill the beans buddy....

Alta Vista... sounds like she comes from money....
 
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Parisianviper

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Re: White Supremacy ?

I'm not sure about the mental implications of pouring a white
liquid into my motor, but on the upside it'll create a whole new realm of non-
PG jokes to annoy the auto-censors.

[/QUOTE]

Just for that, it's worth it. :D

Bonkers, I Used Google translation like suggested earlier.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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Re: White Supremacy ?

The translation reads like Alta Vista Babelfish, no?

TVC's married? One of them Philippine women get their hooks into you
Chucky? Come on, spill the beans buddy....

Alta Vista... sounds like she comes from money....

Married? Ha! I'm only 46. That's waaaay too young to get married.
 

KepRght

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Tom F&L where you at?

anyone remember the pro-long commercials where they ran the prolong in the viper, then drained the oil and took a lap at full speed/rev etc, the car without prolong seized & the viper with prolong came in from the lap just fine & ran another 30 minutes or more? to this day i still use prolong every other oil change. Tom, comments on prolong would be welcome too.
 

Bonkers

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Might be at VOI - a lot of people don't take time to post
while they're there. Come Monday there will be about
300 "VOI Pics," "No 08 at VOI," and "VOI was great" threads
as everyone gets home.
 

Vic

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Re: White Supremacy ?

The translation reads like Alta Vista Babelfish, no?

TVC's married? One of them Philippine women get their hooks into you
Chucky? Come on, spill the beans buddy....

Alta Vista... sounds like she comes from money....

This is Alta Vista Bablefish, a computerized translation service-

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

The translations come out kinda awkward, with grammatical mistakes. Those characteristic mistakes is what tips it off as a computerized translation. But its close enough to figure out what is being said in another language, as long as its not too "deep".
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Sorry, I mistook the title for something else and never read this.

Additives in oils are all designed to thermally decompose at certain temperatures. When heat from the oil (and this is usually at the minimum oil film thickness, where the pressures are momentarily very high) causes the thermal reaction, the additive molecule is designed to break apart and attach to a metal surface. Therefore additives get used up only at the rate at which they are needed, more or less only at the place they are needed, and can be made to react at certain temperatures (lower temperatures means it'll react sooner, but the material will get used up sooner vs. higher temperatures but last longer.)

For instance, everyone has heard about molybdenum as a friction modifier. Moly disulphide can be added to oil, but doesn't do anything because it floats around aimlessly. It is not decomposing and attaching to high friction spots. It is probably good in grease, where the concentration can be high and the majority of lubricant is MoS2. In engine oil, you use an organo-metallic version, moly dithiocarbamate or dithiophosphate. These types have a Moly head, a special backbone, and a hydrocarbon-like tail. The tail makes it soluble in oil. The chemists design the backbone so it breaks and reattaches to metal. Then the moly is "stuck" where you want it.

Lesson over. Test.

Can anyone think of how boron nitride can converge to high friction spots in an engine, and then safely attach there to provide it's function? Me neither.

Bonus question.

Prolong and that family of products have used additives that are so agressively reacting with the metal surface that they actually cause pitting, which looks like corrosion. It's a form of wear, although when measured, it can appear to have less friction. Specifically, chlorinated materials were used in gear oils, where the surface metallurgy is much different than auto engines, and can make some temporary situations look pretty good. But it's a circus act, really.

Give the big oil company chemists some credit here. They have to come up with additives that are not too aggressive and also aggressive enough. The "just right" applies here.

Please feel free to PM me to prompt me to look at something. I just had ignored/missed this one.
 
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Parisianviper

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Can anyone think of how boron nitride can converge to high friction spots in an engine, and then safely attach there to provide it's function? Me neither.Please feel free to PM me to prompt me to look at something. I just had ignored/missed this one.

Hi Tom,
You're referring to metallic additives, that need to attach to the friction spots to be effective, How about microscopic ceramic spheres concentrated enough to be everywhere?
 

Bonkers

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Tom - you are the man. One of these days I plan on reading
one of your posts and then walking away without a
headache... just not today... ow...
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Parisianviper, the metallurgy and engine design isn't made to take advantage of millions of tiny, loose ball bearings. It would be treated as round grit and embed in the soft bearings. Perhaps in industrial applications where both parts are hardened materials and at slow speed would it be of use, but at the meter/sec speed of hard crank journal surfaces over the soft bearings, it won't. Same for hardened cylinder walls and softer piston skirts.

I'd also worry about the effective viscosity of an oil that had that much ceramic material; it would seem like a slurry. It might have some pumpability issues.

At Texaco, we tried bucky balls in oil bench tests and never saw an empirical benefit either.
 

Vic

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Can anyone think of how boron nitride can converge to high friction spots in an engine, and then safely attach there to provide it's function? Me neither.
Could there be something about the increased temperature of high friction areas that makes the boron nitride bond there? I dunno, just took a wild stab at it.

Tom, I see Penzoil print ads that tout their molecules ability to separate through tight spots, and recombine afterwards.
1. What the helll good is a molecule that breaks down like that?
2. Is what they are saying possible?
3. Is it beneficial?
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Sorry, I was being cynical. There is no mechanism by which boron nitride will attach to metal via delivery from the oil.

Boron nitride (BN) has different forms, but is an extremely hard material. It can be used to harden surfaces, as anti-wear meterial, even to assist lubricantion, or as cutting materials. All this sounds good, but the missing mechanism inside an engine is that there is no way for the BN to attach itself to where it might do some good. That is the "backbone" I referred to earlier. This is like teflon - a wonderfully slippery stuff, and when applied to a cooking pan, everything slides off. But putting teflon shavings in your oil does nothing but plug up your oil filter, because there is no chemical or mechanical process to get the teflon to stay where you want it to.

PZ has clever marketing guys that listen to the technical people. The advertisements may not deliver an actual claim, but merely a translation of a technical statement.

In your example: the additives to provide the multi-grade capability are called viscosity index improvers (VII). A multi-grade is formulated by taken a thin oil to meet the "W" requirements and then adding the VII to make it behave like a thick oil when warmed up. These additives are HUGE and are closely chemically related to rubbers. When they pass through the minimum oil film thickenesses of a bearing, they align, they stretch, they sometime break. I'll have to watch for it, since I don't think they can recombine and be "like new".

Every multigrade has VII additives, they all do this to some degree, and any other oil could say the same thing. And no, it really isn't beneficial, since you want the oil to maintain it's higher number rating. More "fragile" VII are in vogue since allowing the oil to thin (or at least not thicken) in some of the engine oil certification tests is a way to improve the fuel economy result.

Diesel oils don't worry about that. They are formulated for long drains and will not tolerate a non-shear stable VII.
 

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Tom You said "PZ has clever marketing guys that listen to the technical people. The advertisements may not deliver an actual claim, but merely a translation of a technical statement."
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I agree with you totally in that many oil companies are making outlandish claims. What is your feel on Royal Purple Products that I have been using for years in everything from race cars, race boats, vipers, car, oats, transmissions, and rear gears? I have never seen a problem but I am not an expert. I am insterested in your comments on this brand of lubricants.
-------------------------------------------------------

Quote: "Diesel oils don't worry about that. They are formulated for long drains and will not tolerate a non-shear stable VII. "
---------------------------------------------------------

Do you feel we would be better off running diesel oils in our viper engines and cars? If so would you use the same
viscosity as a gasoline engine oil?
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Robbie, the PZ marketing guys are actually stating pretty plain technical issues that don't generate any arguments among the formulators, but in a way that sounds more interesting than it really is. I give them a lot of credit.

Every marketer wants a segregated claims space to make their product stay recognizable. Castrol has that high heat, high RPM thing, Mobil has the Mobil 1 thing, Amsoil is first in synthetics, etc. Royal Purple wants to hang on more power and torque but I would ask "compared to what?" Is the gain due to viscosity grade, viscosity within the grade, the multigrade viscosity split, the friction modifiers... There has to be a technical reason but it is hidden behind the marketing-speak. That's the difference between a company that sells 4 million gallons an year and one that sells 40 million gallons, meaning the amount of attention they get from the "authorities."

To Royal Purple in particular, I must say I do not comprehend their strategy to show the new, used and used after Royal Purple bearing surface. I would never want to show that my oil allowed enough contact to touch the surfaces together, much less "smooth" them out. If their answer is that the liquid pressure causes this, they are really out to lunch.

Search old posts of mine, since I have advocated diesel oils for a long time. Any major brand 15W40 (that is what diesel oil comes in) is fine. The 15W is good for cold starts down to -20C, which I doubt many Viper owners do. For those that still want a synthetic, diesel oils come in a 5W40 grade, which I feel is ideal for many reasons. Ironically, a 5W40 synthetic diesel is much better than an equivalent gasoline oil, but guess which usually costs less?
 

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Tom, :2tu:

Thanks for the very interesting reply. There is a lot to be learned from you and I have to say you have gained my respect and trust. Seeing that my 2003 calls for 10W30, I take it that you see no reason not to use a 5W40 synthetic diesel oil. I tried using 5w30 and I was experencing some blowby so I went back to 10w30. Do you see this as an issue with the 5W40 synthetic diesel oil? What brand of this oil would you recommend?

Robbie
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Re: White Supremacy ?

A 5W40 will be very good for you and all Vipers.

Technically, a 5W30 starts to use mineral base oils that are volatile and they want to evaporate right around the temperature at which they operate at. "Regular" 5W30 and 5W20 oils are therefore partially synthetic (or Group III) in many cases, even though they are not advertised as such.
A 10W30 wouldn't have this problem because the "W" number determines the base oil viscosity (the viscosity before any additives are introduced) and it is high enough to not cause the blow-by problem.

A story - when 5W20 first came out, Ford owners would apparently run the sump pretty low because the oil would disappear. Since it was a new car, and there were no leaks, there was no need to check the dipstick. Ooops! The volatility alone made it look like it consumed 2-3 quarts...

Any major brand diesel oil is excellent. Diesel oils are a return to an awful lot of care and overprotection. While the oil and the engine company say what the oil drain interval is, the large fleets can often double or triple that by using oil drain analysis. And when someone with 200 trucks says "I think it's your oil, not my engines" they win. While they extend the drain, they see the oil results and know if an oil company has a bad batch, a weak formulation, or something else. Too many eyeballs watching to risk anything - so any big oil company brand (Chevron Delo, Shell Rotella, Mobil Delvac) is fine.
 

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Re: White Supremacy ?

Tom, Thanks and I totally understand the "to many eyeballs watching." When I had my Mercury Marauder it ran 5W20 and you had to keep an eye on it like you said above.
thanks again,

Rob
 

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Re: White Supremacy ?

fascinating......!
 
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