fix for wheel hop

[Nick]

guys, i hate to be an annoying noob with all these questions, but i searched and came up with nothing

what is the best way to eliminate the wheel hop in vipers, i know that u can never get rid of it completely but it seems like everytime i drift or slam the cluth the shifter wants to shake out of the tranny and the wheel hop is terrible, possibly motons are the best fix, idont know...please help

p.s.i dont have my motons on yet, still waiting on rear springs

 

[ILLSMOQ]

poly mounts, motons and non run flats

 

[zorroespanol]

Yeah, you need urethane tranny mount, and if anyone sells them all the bushings of the rear suspension get them in urethane as well.

That's what I've used to control wheel hop on other cars I've had, but never done it on the Viper. Same principle though...

 

[ILLSMOQ]

engine mounts are the ones that really made a difference. the trans mount by it's self didn't do anything noticable. I would like to know if they make poly bushings for the rear.

 

[Matrix]

I have deleted the wheelhop with my KW-Suspension. The standart setup was not very good, but better then the OEM suspension. I have make it a little bit harder and now it´s nearly perfect.

 

[MikeR]

engine mounts are the ones that really made a difference. the trans mount by it's self didn't do anything noticable. I would like to know if they make poly bushings for the rear.

Ive driven ILLSMOQ's car. Its night and day different then mine. His Motons made it ride alot better and hre wheels/non rungflats made it handle better too. But I really, really like the feel of his shifter, it doenst move at all. Now when i drive mine I notice its harded trhu shifts and the shifter rattles around. I thought it was ok, till I drove his.

 

[zorroespanol]

engine mounts are the ones that really made a difference. the trans mount by it's self didn't do anything noticable. I would like to know if they make poly bushings for the rear.

Engine mounts will help with the tranny, but they won't do squat for wheel hop. Do you have those?? I'd be very weary of installing them on a odd-firing engine such as a V10, because the vibration transferred to the frame will be very noticeable. Can you play CD?'s

I've sometimes changed the tranny mount and that in itself helped a lot with the transmission movement, without turning my car into a massage chair.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

engine mounts are the ones that really made a difference. the trans mount by it's self didn't do anything noticable. I would like to know if they make poly bushings for the rear.

Engine mounts will help with the tranny, but they won't do squat for wheel hop. Do you have those?? I'd be very weary of installing them on a odd-firing engine such as a V10, because the vibration transferred to the frame will be very noticeable. Can you play CD?'s

I've sometimes changed the tranny mount and that in itself helped a lot with the transmission movement, without turning my car into a massage chair.

In other cars I've had, the transmission mount did the trick. I put the poly trans mount in this car over a year ago and the only difference I noticed was the shifter didn't hop up and down so much, wheel hop and mis shifts were still an issue for me. The engine mounts eliminated any mis-shift problems I had also wheel hop was drastically reduced over the improvement the Motons provided. There was hardly a difference in vibration...cd's play the same. There is a little more noise transmitted into the car but hardly any vibration. If I could do it over again the mounts would be the first thing I changed.

You can believe it or not.

With all that said, I still get some wheel hop, when the tires are cold it will hop sometimes, and dumping the clutch from a dead stop it will hop. I can nail it in first gear, no hop, I can power shift to second or even third and there is no hop.

 

[zorroespanol]

engine mounts are the ones that really made a difference. the trans mount by it's self didn't do anything noticable. I would like to know if they make poly bushings for the rear.

Engine mounts will help with the tranny, but they won't do squat for wheel hop. Do you have those?? I'd be very weary of installing them on a odd-firing engine such as a V10, because the vibration transferred to the frame will be very noticeable. Can you play CD?'s

I've sometimes changed the tranny mount and that in itself helped a lot with the transmission movement, without turning my car into a massage chair.

In other cars I've had, the transmission mount did the trick. I put the poly trans mount in this car over a year ago and the only difference I noticed was the shifter didn't hop up and down so much, wheel hop and mis shifts were still an issue for me. The engine mounts eliminated any mis-shift problems I had also wheel hop was drastically reduced over the improvement the Motons provided. There was hardly a difference in vibration...cd's play the same. There is a little more noise transmitted into the car but hardly any vibration. If I could do it over again the mounts would be the first thing I changed.

You can believe it or not.

With all that said, I still get some wheel hop, when the tires are cold it will hop sometimes, and dumping the clutch from a dead stop it will hop. I can nail it in first gear, no hop, I can power shift to second or even third and there is no hop.

Why wouldn't I believe you? It's not like you ar trying to sell us something

Thanks for the info.

 

[grcforce327]

WARM WEATHER!!!

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Why wouldn't I believe you? It's not like you ar trying to sell us something

Thanks for the info.

cool.

If you look at the shifter during wheel hop, you see it jumping back and forth. When it's jumping like that, you have the heavy engine and transmission jack hammering against the rear suspention and tires...adding to the wheel hop.

With all three poly mounts the engine and trans don't move, so you don't have the added impact of the engine and trans contributing to the wheel hop.

 

[HARDVIPER]

Nick
With 3:55 gears and a supercharger on my 01 RT/10 I blew a hole in my rear end from wheel hop.
PS That was funny as hell when you gave ole nuubs (brian) the *** cheeze rub on his pillow.......U Dawg .......
and my daughter is still waiting for you. LOL

 

[VIPER D]

BFG's FIX ALL wheel hop!

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

vd..

 

[2001 GTS]

^Worked for me

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

Nick -

Start with a quick inspection just to verify you don't have an existing simple fix (or not so simple fix) problem.

Most typically, (but not always) wheels-hop is derived from inadequate tire pressure, tire sidewall and shocks.

First I'd take a look at the driver side motor mount - If the shifter moves excessively under load it's worth taking a look at; it may have separated and becomes most evident on acceleration.

You can also adjust tire pressures up or down to see what may work best for you situation.

If you remember our conversation when I commented on tires with minimal sidewall; when you move up to 20" or more you lose sidewall flex or "tire wrap." The low profile tires w/o sidewall won't let the tires do the work therefore it overworks the suspension! And the same can work visa-versa ... a tire with too much wrap can also overwork the suspension resulting in wheel-hop. It's a balancing act and you have to find what works best for your application.

One thing about wheel-hop is that it only gets uglier if not corrected. When you rattle the axles, you rattle the rear and rattle the transmission.

Thank god for cell phones & AAA.

Good luck and if I can be of any assistance let me know.

Doug

 

[grcforce327]

BFG's FIX ALL wheel hop!

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

vd..

Don't forget to add the assistance of the smaller wheel!!!Would be great if they came in 19's,don't like the look of the smaller wheel(gap) in the back!

 

[VIPER D]

I havent had the bfg's on since I slammed my viper. When it warms up here I will see what the gap will look like with the motons.


vd..

 

[Racer Robbie]

I changed both the engine and trans mounts last year along with ditching the run flats, as Zorro and Illsmoo stated above, and the problem was solved.

 

[Viper X]

Hey Guys,

Be careful when switching motor mounts. If you go too ******* the driver's side, you can put pressure on the drivers side of the engine block when the engine spins up, eventually creating an oblong cylinder, #3 I think. This is bad.

I would agree with changing the trans mount and the passenger side motor mount but would again be very careful when changing the driver's side motor mount.

Motons, stiffer springs, proper tires, correct inflation pressure and a smooth surface will all help cut down on with wheel hop.

Dan

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Hey Guys,

Be careful when switching motor mounts. If you go too ******* the driver's side, you can put pressure on the drivers side of the engine block when the engine spins up, eventually creating an oblong cylinder, #3 I think. This is bad.

I would agree with changing the trans mount and the passenger side motor mount but would again be very careful when changing the driver's side motor mount.

Motons, stiffer springs, proper tires, correct inflation pressure and a smooth surface will all help cut down on with wheel hop.

Dan

You have seen this happen or know someone this has happend to? I know quite a few people that have run them in other high powered aluminum block cars(LS1)with out problems.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Then decel from high RPM in gear would squash #3?

 

[Viper X]

Ill,

Yes, I have. The LS1 is a smaller block. We do get some unique issues with our bigger block, longer crank and 10 cylinders in general.

Tom,

No, acceleration is what kills #3. The engine spins and therefore torques from the drivers side to the passenger side.

Talk with DC Performance or Kevin at Exotic Engine, they'll be glad to explain this too you. Just be careful.

Dan

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Viper X, I was half kidding. To be a problem there must be something else is going on. (There's always another side to the story.)

No matter how a motor mount stretches or compresses, it will be pulled or pushed with the same amount of force. The amount of engine torque applied is the same, it only looks different because a rubber isolated mount allows more movement. The bolt that connects the casting to the mount doesn't know how far it moved; it resists the same force with either one.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Hey Guys,

Be careful when switching motor mounts. If you go too ******* the driver's side, you can put pressure on the drivers side of the engine block when the engine spins up, eventually creating an oblong cylinder, #3 I think. This is bad.

I would agree with changing the trans mount and the passenger side motor mount but would again be very careful when changing the driver's side motor mount.

Motons, stiffer springs, proper tires, correct inflation pressure and a smooth surface will all help cut down on with wheel hop.

Dan

This is very true about the drivers side of the engine block. According to my talk with Dan at D C Performance and Snake-Oyl these mounts are ok as long as you do not drag race the viper as this stresses the left side of the engine. Seeing I never drag race my viper, and never will as it is a road racing car, this should not be a problem in my case.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The main cause of these #3 problems are from people using actual soild mounts not from our urethane mounts. We have used them for over a year and a half and do launches all the time in the World Challenge starts. To my knowlage there has never been a problem with our mounts and the #3.

Mark

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Can anyone describe this bad thing that happens?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Now Tom, are you expecting someone to explain why such a thing could happen and have all of the engineering types here jump all over the theory.

But I do have one theory, which is seen with aluminum heads and blocks. That is if the new very stiff motor mount causes the block to distort more to conform to the mounts shape. As you know the stock mount is not very stiff in the bolt axis direction. If the stiff mount is then it could provide excessive distortion when mounting it. Also, if attachment bolt torques are higher then spec they too can cause distorion. Another could be thermal distortion, where the mount prevents the block from expanding locally (not a big deal with relatively low block temps though).

I have seen many times where exhaust manifold mounting distorts the exhaust valve to valve guide relationship and how valve seat machining with a exhaust plate installed is required. Seen it on cam bores and valves from head bolt/head gasket loads as well.

 

[Viper X]

Hi Mark,

I was not referring to anyone's product, just that some motor mounts can be too hard to use on the driver's side. Solid mounts would likely be the worst but I'm guessing that there may be others out that that have not been as well tested as yours.

Tom,

The end result with too hard a motor mount on the drivers side is that it doesn't allow the block to move as freely as it needs to move. The attachment point is at or about at the #3 cylinder and if the engine moves and the motor mount resists too much, the #3 cylinder can become stressed, stretched and get oval or egg shaped and cause major issues. This is bad with a round piston.

Kevin Singleton of Exotic Engine has actually developed a part that mounts to the front of the block that helps keep the engine from moving too much in drag cars and doesn't stress the side of the block. High hp cars can have the same problem under heavy, sustained acceleration.

Dan

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

No, I am not looking to pick on anything (or anyone), it just seems that there could be an explanation of how to use stiffer mounts without risk. With a 13 year old car and wheel hop myself, I'd like to do something about it. With my old Duster, I simply welded the OEM motor mount and went racing...

I do see drag race engines positioned with elephant ears, and until this conversation, had always assumed it was for drivetrain geometry, suspension tuning, and engine removal issues.

My simpleton engineering issue is that if I picked you up with a chain or with a bungee cord, the attaching point would see the same force; your weight pulling you down and my chain or cord pulling up. Same for the block - all it "sees" is the nut and bolt on the block's side of the motor mount. How does it know what the isolation material is made out of?

If both mounts are as hard as the material in the block, then maybe Ron is correct. Such a stiff attachment would cause equal distortion on both sides of the mount. In that case it doesn't matter whether driver's or passenger side is the stiff one, just that if both are stiff, the block is affected by the stiffness of the frame.

And yes, lastly, I am still having a little trouble seeing that the casting boss for the motor mount can be affected enough by a motor mount to change the geometry of the cylinder wall, which at least in a Gen 1 is a sleeve. Even in a Gen 2, it is separated by the cooling jacket, no?

I guess I would be surprised if someone told me they had excessive blow by or wear in cylinder 3 due to stiffer motor mounts, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Tom,

The mounts I am using are all urethane mounts. The transmission mount is from the Comp Coupe and is a dealer item. The Engine mounts were bought from Snake-Oyl. Dan at D C Performance told me that under drag race launching that you can warp the drivers side of the block as it is thin walled. Snake -Oyl also confermed the same thing. I have had no problems road racing these mounts.

http://www.snakeoylproducts.com/product.php?productid=17857&cat=0&page=1&featured