Thread: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

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  1. #1
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    Default E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    Here in Oregon I have noticed that pretty much all of my local preferred gast stations (Chevron, Shell, Union 76) have gone to an E10 blend. What impact does this have on the Gen III/IV engines if any? I hope to dyno my car in the near future and am wondering if I should try to seek out a station that does not use this blend before I dyno the car. Thanks.

    /Rich

  2. #2
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    These E Blends fuels are crap unless you have a car designed for it. when driving thru Colorado i tried a tank in my Dodge 1500 Hemi and my gas mileage dropped 7.9mpg highway. next tank was 89 octane and mileage jumped to 15.4 highway. I would never even think about putting that junk in my Viper's.

  3. #3

    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    I'm not sure what the impact of that fuel is on your car, but I would suggest dynoing with that fuel to make sure its safe if you will be running it in the future.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    Thanks for the responses thus far. I am not sure I have a choice regarding use of the E10 in the Viper. All of the "big name" stations here in the Portland, Ore. area seem to be using this blend of gasoline. Anyone who also lives in this neck of the woods know if there are stations locally that do not have the E10 blend? Thanks.

    /Rich

  5. #5
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    Here in Connecticut we have no choice but to use E10 unless we buy race fuel. I have been using a octane booster that I buy at NAPA, made by CRC, that I have had wonderful luck with. I have used 1 bottle to every tank of fuel.

    06067
    CRC OCTANE BOOSTER

  6. #6
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    Actually ethanol is an octane BOOSTER. One of the very few benefits of ethanol is that it has a higher octane rating than gas. Its not the octane of ethanol that causes the lower mileage. The problem is that ethanol contains less BTU's per gallon than a gallon of gas. Less available energy from a gallon of fuel means less mileage per gallon.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by mjf6175 View Post
    Actually ethanol is an octane BOOSTER. One of the very few benefits of ethanol is that it has a higher octane rating than gas. Its not the octane of ethanol that causes the lower mileage. The problem is that ethanol contains less BTU's per gallon than a gallon of gas. Less available energy from a gallon of fuel means less mileage per gallon.
    Thanks for the clarification. Given that there is a boost in octane but lower BTU output from the E10 is it basically a wash in terms of hp and torque or does the blend result in a net increase or decrease in engine performance? (To the extent it is relevant, here in Oregon our premium fuel is rated at 92 octane.)

    /Rich

  8. #8
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    Rich....while the octane rating is higher for ethanol the bad news is you get less power with all else the same. Octane is not an indication of "power" available form the fuel. In simple terms, octane ratings give you an indication as to the tendency of a fuel to pre-ignite under load which causes "ping" or "knock". How much power is lost due to the 10% ethanol blend I think would be small and the only way to find out exactly would be to do dyno runs. I do not know of any test performed where this was specifically done to evaluate the changes in power output but I bet the car manufacturers do know.

    Engines designed to run on high percentages of ethanol CAN regain SOME of the lost efficiencies of using ethanol vs gasoline by having higher compression ratios, even greater than 11.0:1, or by using more aggressive engine timing. The result would be a higher HP output at the flywheel due to the compression/timing increases but still using more gallons of fuel (than gasoline) to do it.
    Last edited by mjf6175; 02-24-2008 at 11:12 AM. Reason: clarification

  9. #9
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    My '04 Viper has been over 27,000 miles mostly (80-90%, it is not always available when I am on cross country vacations with the Viper) on E10/Gasohol. It doesn't appear to hurt a thing and it is OK per the new car documentation.

    Do loose some gas mileage, but your driving technique is a MUCH bigger factor in fuel consumption should you care.

    I you are really running your Viper at full power often enough to see E10 hurt you on the street I am truly amazed that you can keep your license!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    I would consider tuning the car on what gasoline you use... So if thats all you can get... consider tuning the car for that... That way your car runs better...

    Joe

  11. #11
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    E10 fuel goes thru what is called phase separation when it sits around for awhile. Ethanol attracts water and the ethanol and water separate and drop to the bottom of your fuel tank leaving you with low octane fuel. This has been a huge problem in the marine sector as boats are used on weekends, for the most part, as are our vipers. CRC 06067 octane booster solved this problem for me. Another product called Seafoam does a great job too and has been used in the marine sector for years. Below is a link from Starbrite that discusses phase separation. I have tried their product called Startron with no success. Also below are the links for Seafoam and CRC. Please note that the article from Starbrite is their opinion and not mine. I have has these problems and the CRC and Seafoam have solved the problem on my boats and cars. Of note is that on my last trip out west I got 7 more MPG on premium fuel that was non E10 with my wifes Jeep Overland.

    Starbrite http://www.starbrite.com/whatsnew/STAR%20BRITE%20ethanol%20p3072D2.pdf

    CRC http://www.crcindustries.com/marine/content/prod_detail.aspx?PN=06067&S=N

    SEAFOAM http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpConsumer.htm

  12. #12
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    Default Re: E10 Ethanol Blend and Engine Performance . . .

    No one using (if available) AMOCO gold (now BP)?

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