How much HP/TQ can I expect from this?

[jasontiff]

I just bought a used heads/cam package from Scharf. It includes:

• Ported heads (don't know how much they're ported or who did it)
• Pushrods
• Isky 1.7 Rollerrockers
• Comp Cam (COMP Cams: Dodge V10 Viper Xtreme Energy XR270HR Cam)
• Guide plates
• Lifters

I already have the regular bolt-ons (smooth tubes, plugs/wires, K&Ns, mufflers/cat delete, VEC3) and put down 410HP and 480TQ. What kind of gains do you think I can expect, with and without headers (next on the list)? Is it contingent on how much the heads are ported?

Lastly, any words of wisdom on doing it myself? My manual says pull the engine, but other members said yanking the hood, fan and radiator will let me slide the cam in. Approximate amount of time for heads/cam swap? Additional maintenance/mods to do while I'm in there (aside from timing chain)?

Thanks, guys! I'm excited!

 

[JonB]

........... Is it contingent on how much the heads are ported?............

Yes.

There were no 'stock' Gen 1 Mopar or other heads to quote on...but back then, guys who massaged heads and intake within the usual range got 30-40 HP.

This will get rid of suspect G1 gaskets.... add G2 shorty OE headers for almost free = +15HP....... !!! get rid of all old rubber, hoses, wires, serpentine..... I would probably scrap the old coilpacks too.

 

[plumcrazy]

i wouldnt do that work and NOT put a set of headers on it...

ya might wanna get the heads CC'd so you know what has been done to them as far as porting.

even though, its not his work id call greg good and see if he can help ya. he can guide you in the right direction and maybe help you pick out head gaskets and all.

713-290-1103 ask for greg.

 

[SquadX]

Probably add another 50rwhp but again, depends on the head porting.

I am just finishing up my H/C swap and it *****. It is taking me a long time because I only get to work on it every 3rd day and only for one hour or two at most. Just take the hood off (which i didnt do because I dont have help but would have made it easier), the radiator and some say cross member (which I didnt). Pretty straight forward job. You do need good tools and tools to pull the crank out with. The manual does not tell you everything.
You will have to grind down a 3/8 square bolt to get the cylinder head plugs out. Fuel plug is in the trunk (manual was not clear on). Timing cover and timing cover gasket was a little tricky to get on.

Of course replace all gasket except valve cover and oil pan if they're in good shape. Get a push rod checker to make sure you have the correct lenght pushrods and I was told to upgrade them to the thicker one (3/8 I believe) if you can. Get some gasket remover spray and use a plastic scrapper, metal will scratch surface. Not sure if you know how to degree a cam but you do need a degree wheel. The adjustable timing chain instructions says you dont need one but recommends it.

Crank bolt is 1 1/4.
Buy thread sealants and lubes.

Also to remove the cross member you have to jack the front end up.
If you have any questions, feel free to call me. I 'll PM you my number.

You dont need to remove the headers neither.

I ping'ed on VCA members and of course chuck. I am not expert but I can atleast tell you what problems I ran into.

Damn you put down alot of tq. with those mods.

 

[ViperTony]

You may also want to give Chuck Tator a call for some words of wisdom. I think I saw Scharf's auction for the GenI heads/cam package on eBay. Good deal.

 

[99 R/T 10]

I have never heard of Isky 1.7 RR for a Viper. Are they Crowers RR by chance? If so, don't used them!

 

[jasontiff]

You may also want to give Chuck Tator a call for some words of wisdom. I think I saw Scharf's auction for the GenI heads/cam package on eBay. Good deal.

I definitely will when the parts get in. I can't wait to get dirty and tear this thing down!

I talked to a few guys down here, including a Viper tech, and they said it was a smokin' deal. I did a little research on my own and couldn't pass it up...the cam alone retails for almost $600. I can sell off my old heads and the valve covers that came with the auction and make back a few bucks. Breaking it to my wife was fun..."you know that dining room table we were gonna get?"

 

[jasontiff]

I have never heard of Isky 1.7 RR for a Viper. Are they Crowers RR by chance? If so, don't used them!

That's what was in the listing:
eBay Motors: Dodge Viper Cam Rocker Pushrods Springs Heads Valve (item 360076648090 end time Sep-22-08 17:05:48 PDT)

I guess I'll know better when they get here. Thanks for looking out!

 

[jasontiff]

Probably add another 50rwhp but again, depends on the head porting.

I am just finishing up my H/C swap and it *****. It is taking me a long time because I only get to work on it every 3rd day and only for one hour or two at most. Just take the hood off (which i didnt do because I dont have help but would have made it easier), the radiator and some say cross member (which I didnt). Pretty straight forward job. You do need good tools and tools to pull the crank out with. The manual does not tell you everything.
You will have to grind down a 3/8 square bolt to get the cylinder head plugs out. Fuel plug is in the trunk (manual was not clear on). Timing cover and timing cover gasket was a little tricky to get on.

Of course replace all gasket except valve cover and oil pan if they're in good shape. Get a push rod checker to make sure you have the correct lenght pushrods and I was told to upgrade them to the thicker one (3/8 I believe) if you can. Get some gasket remover spray and use a plastic scrapper, metal will scratch surface. Not sure if you know how to degree a cam but you do need a degree wheel. The adjustable timing chain instructions says you dont need one but recommends it.

Crank bolt is 1 1/4.
Buy thread sealants and lubes.

Also to remove the cross member you have to jack the front end up.
If you have any questions, feel free to call me. I 'll PM you my number.

You dont need to remove the headers neither.

I ping'ed on VCA members and of course chuck. I am not expert but I can atleast tell you what problems I ran into.

Damn you put down alot of tq. with those mods.

I'll most definitely give you a ring when it's time to start breaking my car!

If you see an RT with a rear antennae going a little faster than a stock one should at the Viper Days finals next month, ask no questions!

 

[jasontiff]

Yes.

There were no 'stock' Gen 1 Mopar or other heads to quote on...but back then, guys who massaged heads and intake within the usual range got 30-40 HP.

This will get rid of suspect G1 gaskets.... add G2 shorty OE headers for almost free = +15HP....... !!! get rid of all old rubber, hoses, wires, serpentine..... I would probably scrap the old coilpacks too.

Thanks, Jon B!

After the stuff gets here and I get ready to dive in, I'll inventory what I have going on under the hood and see what can be improved. As always, thanks!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I just bought a used heads/cam package from Scharf. It includes:

• Ported heads (don't know how much they're ported or who did it)
• Pushrods
• Isky 1.7 Rollerrockers
• Comp Cam (COMP Cams: Dodge V10 Viper Xtreme Energy XR270HR Cam)
• Guide plates
• Lifters

I already have the regular bolt-ons (smooth tubes, plugs/wires, K&Ns, mufflers/cat delete, VEC3) and put down 410HP and 480TQ. What kind of gains do you think I can expect, with and without headers (next on the list)? Is it contingent on how much the heads are ported?

I have Crower 1.7 rockers, Roe exhaust and dyno 408/490 at the wheels. You might want to look into intake manifolds, as there have been many comments that the shorty headers don't help a Gen 1, and obviously comparing our engines, the rockers don't do much. In other words, the Gen 1 engine is intake restricted from the factory so anything downstream (cam and heads) may not help as much as you'd like.

 

[TexasPettey]

Couple of things to consider:

1) The COMP CAM you pointed to seems to be less agressive than the '708' CAM from the Gen2. The 708 has lift of .541", the one you pointed out has .536". The 708 has exh duration of 305 deg, the one you pointed out has exh duration of 274. In fact, looking at the IVR SPECS from the VCA pointer, that cam is only slightly better than the Gen1 CAM. I'd say that it wouldn't have as much lope as a Gen2, and wouldn't make as much power. You can get a 708 CAM for $100 if you look hard. I'm not sure I'd put that CAM in for the relative benefit. It's only a mild increase over a Gen1 CAM. If you're going through all that trouble, put the CAM in you want. As to CAM selection, keep in mind that a Gen1 needs to be sniffed in TX. You don't have an OBD-2. So, you have to really pass emissions instead of just have the computer report that you do. A very agressive CAM won't pass.

2) Take the heads over to Port Pros on 183. They will do a bench flow and inspection for ~$200. From there, you can get an idea of how good the head work was and if there are any issues with the heads. DO NOT PUT THEM ON WITHOUT INSPECTION. You could seriously mess up your engine if something was bad and you put them on. They will also be able to tell you what the flow is. You can compare it against the stock Gen1 heads to see how you will do. If the didn't do a good job on the port, and the flow is only slightly better, you may not want to put them on. The additional cost and time for the benefit may not be there.

By way of comparison, my mods are:

- ROE 3" exhast
- Eddelbrock headers
- 1.7 rockers
- 708 CAM
- Greg Good Ported heads (305CFM intake flow)
- Greg Good Ported intake manifold (intake ports and TB ports ported to match heads & 65mm TB's)
- VEC3 for tune

I put down 478 RWHP at the dyno day. There is probably more with some additional tuning, but not too much. I have a set of 65mm TB's waiting to go on. I want to do a before/after dyno with them on the same day to try and get some real data for the ongoing TB value debates.

While you have the front cover & heads off: timing chain, water pump, & possibly oil pump. Since you have to pull the coolant hoses, do those too.

Engine does not have to come out to do the work, but you will consume the garage space for a good period of time.

 

[plumcrazy]

there are MUCH better cams to use than the 708, call greg good and he can talk to you about it.

and good info on the heads !!!

 

[jasontiff]

Damn, Chris...good info! Thanks for looking out!

What's CFM on stock heads? And would you say you have a mild, medium or substantial port on your heads (the 305 doesn't mean anything to me; I apologize for my Viper ignorance!). That way I can tell when I get these flow-tested how much they were messed with.

Let's also assume that this cam isn't going to give me the gains I'd hoped for (money-back guarantee!), and let's also assume I may magically still pass inspection somehow; does anyone have any aggressive cam recommendations? Again, if you could inform me just HOW aggressive they are, that'd help, just because now I don't know how much my heads have been ported/how much they can handle.

That's the second vote I've gotten for water pump, and it looks like I'll try and hunt down a set of silicon Roe hoses while I'm at it (I think I know a guy down here who has a set he never put on). A pushrod measuring tool, a gasket set and getting the cam mic'd at the machine shop make the list too.

Please everyone; chime in. I'm trying to be as informed about this as possible. I really appreciate the help thus far!

 

[99 R/T 10]

I actually like the 708 cam coupled with so 1.7 RR will yeild about .580 lift. It sounds and performs great!