Thread: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

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  1. #1
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    Default I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    I know it's a new forum or platform if you will. Bound to be a learning curve.

    So someone posts about an experience. It was on one of the forums.

    A mod breaks in with:

    http://forums.viperclub.org/2624898-post3.html

    An interesting comment, in that you can post about bad experiences.

    And before you get any thoughts, stop.

    Then a second more comprehensive reply by the same mod on the same thread:

    http://forums.viperclub.org/2624931-post5.html

    My problem is... or maybe we should call it a question... is if someone posts a negative about a vendor and the platform of it being a conversation area is no good, then I see an issue. Any vendor that gets a negative is going to reply. The flood doors of conversation will open.

    So, either the mods are going to have to put up with it, or policing will be a full time job there.

    Mods? Comments?

    And like I said, stop it. Don't go there. Not the mods, you.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    You dont have a problem with the forum....

    [And you SHOULD have posted this in the Board and Site Questions/Suggestions forum.}

    Anyone with half a brain can clearly see you have a vendetta against ME. Why else would you jump (stalking?) into virtually ANY compliment that might be posted about me or my company. [Late edit, ading as more evidence your citing the PartsRack highlights in your 'sincere question'.......JUST ASK THE QUESTION!}

    The VCA made you and your stalking pal tag-team (your words) stop REPEATING the same old complaint about me and my company. The Same posted issues, ad-nauseum. You complained IN DEPTH, multiple times, and still want to complain more. Is this FAIR?

    NOW, to circumvent the VCA policies and rules, you post innuendo, no names, and privately assail me to others. You then invite private emails in order to bash me further. [ If you use PMs the VCA will see.....so you publicly ask posters to PM you with THEIR EMAIL!] You are no better than a stalker. You have sent me private, vulgar threats to damage my business and further your vengeful entertainment. The VCA has seen them now.

    NOW, you want the VCA rulemakers to conform to YOU even more?!

    Hell, people here dont even know WHO YOU ARE.....and I bet your boss does not know how much time you spend here, either. Or the other forums. Or Amazon.com.

    BUT TO HELP YOU WITH A FACTUAL ANSWER to your "Sincere Question" :

    Here is what the OLD VCA Dealer review forum stated:

    Dealer/Viper Tech Reviews Looking for a dealer or Viper Tech...wanna know what others have found? Please be aware that ALL messages are verified! If false information is posted you may be added to the "BAN list". All information is welcome, good and bad, but it MUST be accurate!

    The new forum simply says:

    The place to post your reviews and opinions of sponsoring vendors. First hand experiences only.

    It seems to me, if you want to post your factual complaints (again) you may do that. But you CANT iterfere with OTHER people's posts or opinions! {But how many times to you have to bash me for the same old 3 MANUFACTURER ISSUES?}

    I ask you a 4th or 5th time: Man-To-man: BE FAIR.
    Last edited by JonB; 12-11-2008 at 01:50 PM. Reason: punctuation, and colorization

  3. #3
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    To quote an old song...

    "Well I wont back down, no I wont back down
    You can stand me up at the gates of hell
    But I wont back down"

    ...altogether now!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Who is my boss? Does anyone here know?

    WTF are you talking about Jon?

    This has nothing to do with you. Nothing.

    Maybe you need to get off my ass.

    I posted a sincere question and would still like it answered.

    BTW Jon, your ignorance shows. I do not post at the Alley. You are desperate and that leads to mistakes.

    Either substantiate your claims on me or stop.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.


    HA HA! I love it

    Dave,
    I think you are beginning to see how fVcked up this place is
    I know we started on here about the same time. I have experience with many other forums and have never been involved with such blatant one-sided censorship. The mods run this site like communist Russia.


    I can't even count how many of my posts get deleted without any notice or explanation. I'm sure this one will as well so read fast.


    Don't make too many waves about this. JonB is a beloved site-supporter and you are nothing. I doesn't matter how many negatives he gets as long as he is still giving $$ you will never win.



    but what do I know about running a forum, I'm only a moderator on a couple other forums


  6. #6
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    I will not start to share my experiences...I keep my mouth shut up!
    This post will be deleted soon anyway.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    This thread was for one purpose. To inquire about how negative experiences with vendors will be handled from the no conversation standpoint.

    Life, and this place too, unfortunately does not work that way.

    I tried to make it clear in my OP that this has nothing to do with what some might think it does. Big I, whom I have quoted made the comments that raised my concern, and those comments just so happen to have been made on a Parts Rack review. Anything else is pure coincidence as I currently have no intentions of ever posting there about my experiences.

    I just want to know how posting negative experiences, which according to the mods are welcome, will be handled.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Dave raises a valid point.

    If someone posts something positive about ANY vendor (not just Jon B) chances are it'll stay up with little or no further posting on the thread; maybe a "me too" or "thanks".

    However, if someone posts something negative, the vendor will most likely come to their own defense, in which case the thread will become conversational. Both parties will present their sides to the story.

    If all "conversational" threads are deleted, then by nature most negative threads are going to come down. This needs to be revisited if it's to be unbiased as it was intended.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    As one of the few "old timer" on this forum, I can tell you from past experiences that the censorship was a lot worst a few years ago, and this censorship was the main reason why I did not renew my membership after a couple of years.
    Also, this forum has changed alot and is now mostly for entertainment compared to what it was at the beginning ( mostly for technical Q & A on Vipers).
    Even when a technical thread is started, most of the posts are completly irrelevent to the subject and the thread quicly become nothing more than a public avenue for a few posters to have 'fun" between themselves.
    I'm not saying that it is wrong or right, just stating a fact.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    lee and i were talking about this exact subject last night. these vendor forums are very new and therefore it is going to be a learning curve on we how to handle things there. originally i thought the posted feedbacks were going to look more like the direct comments you would see on ebay, but it appears now it wont. my apologies for the confusion.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by luc View Post
    Even when a technical thread is started, most of the posts are completly irrelevent to the subject and the thread quicly become nothing more than a public avenue for a few posters to have 'fun" between themselves.
    I'm not saying that it is wrong or right, just stating a fact.

    and this is exactly what i was referring to. all of us have seen too many threads start, then suddenly, they go way off topic, and they no longer pertain to the original post. quite frankly, if i want to investigate a vendor that i am considering buying merchandise from, i want to read the reviews, good and bad, and move on without reading all the garbage. (just like on ebay). personally, i think all the garbage should be monitored and removed, (in the review forums only), but that decision is above my pay grade.
    Last edited by big-n-italian; 12-11-2008 at 11:48 AM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by luc View Post
    As one of the few "old timer" on this forum, I can tell you from past experiences that the censorship was a lot worst a few years ago, and this censorship was the main reason why I did not renew my membership after a couple of years.
    Also, this forum has changed alot and is now mostly for entertainment compared to what it was at the beginning ( mostly for technical Q & A on Vipers).
    Even when a technical thread is started, most of the posts are completly irrelevent to the subject and the thread quicly become nothing more than a public avenue for a few posters to have 'fun" between themselves.
    I'm not saying that it is wrong or right, just stating a fact.
    This is exactly the way I feel.
    The only reason I will renew my membership is for the How-tos. The catch-22 is that the only purely technical part of this whole site is for members only. So I must pay my ridiculous fees to get anything from the forums.

    The only reason I go to the Alley is for entertainment. It would be nice to have forums for the Viper community that are technically based. The VCA, for me, has turned into a waste of time for the most part. It has become rare that a truly informative thread pops up. But then the usual post whores clutter it up and make it difficult to sort out the good from the BS.

    I don't mind a place on the forums for chit-chatting and BSing, but the technical sections should be just that, technical.

  13. #13
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    Cool Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfang View Post
    To quote an old song...
    "Well I wont back down, no I wont back down
    You can stand me up at the gates of hell
    But I wont back down"
    ...altogether now!
    "Well, I'll stand my ground, won't get turned around, and I'll keep this world from dragging me down, and I won't back down" Tom Petty...LOVE that song especially in the car!~! ("Cabin Down Below" is a nice ditty too...mmm-hmmmmm) OOOOOPS...I joined in a hijacking...I will refrain from doing so in the future, especially with these 'review' forums!
    BIG: You were tasked to watch over me, I'm moderating myself just here! ~juli

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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    I agree with bottlefed. I'm all for having fun and ribbing, but everything has its time and place. Much like the Dave/RDR thread, Dave posted about a serious concern he had. Now there's a sub convo in the thread about a banana holder. If you want to goof off and wreck threads, do it in the Snake Pit or the joke forum. Leave the General Viper forums to mostly technical speak. Joking is ok, but there's no need to make every single thread become a place to just bump post counts. When I joined, I was guilty of this myself...I entered my $0.02 in every thread whether I had anything valuable to say or not. Most of my crazy high post count came from my 1st year or 2 here. Now I see how truly annoying it can be to have to sift through chit-chat when you're actually trying to find some useful information. If someone is posting in the Gen 1/2/3/4 forums its because they prob have a problem/question with their car and need a serious answer. There's specific forums for most every topic...keep the goofing off where it belongs

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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Sigh....I read all this stuff a couple times and I don't get it. We created these forums for two specific reasons.

    1. Most importantly to give Viper owners an opportunity to view historical feedback on the vendors without having to wade through a labor intensive search, we viewed it as kind of an EBay system feedback syatem. We had a similar system in the market place in the old system.

    2. To keep al the vendor comments from cluttering up the forums, hopefully technical posts will become more technical and easy to read without all the clatter about WHERE a particular system was bought.
    For example let's talk Superchargers, a newb wants to know about them...let's talk about the different types rather than what Doug Levin or Sean Roe puts on. At that point the newb can look at these forums to get feedback on Doug or Sean.

    It goes without saying that if a negative comment is posted about a vendor then the vendor may come in and dispute it. Do we expect anything else on this site with Viper personality types? Not really.
    BUT, we expect the conversations to be civil in accordance with the way the site is run. No personal attacks AND no stalking of a vendor over a historical grudge.

    The site rules do provide that a vendor may dispute a complaint. I see no reason that would not apply in here as well. If disputed the complaint is removed and we talk to both parties, at that point the poster who negatively posted may prevail in proving his statement, or the vendor may prevail.
    What usually happens is they work it out and everyone is happy. many times if the customer would just CALMLY try and work it out with a vendor they wiil get satisfaction, too many come here screaming bloody murder about the vendor expecting somehow to get leverage on the vendor and subsequent satisfaction, that does not work well once the vendor feels his good name has a little tarnish on it. Most cases DO get taken care of though with this process.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Obviously the VCA decision to remove the "how-to" from the public section and reserve it to paying members was financialy motivated with the goal of increasing revenues..
    The hypocrite part is that, as stated, the VCA financial health depend on advertising ( sponsors and classifieds) and advertising rate/value is DIRECTLY related to the circulation (numbers of posters/posts/readers) and consequently, in order to have a viable business plan, the VCA need the participation of all the non-members ( enthousiasts and owners) on those forums but do not allow them to have access to what THEY believe is the most valuable section of this wesite.
    Going back to the thread subject:
    One of the main reason Ebay feedbacks are directly-to-the-point and short is because the lengh of the message itself is limited.
    So, if posting on the forum were to be limited to 20 words, a lot of the garbage will go away

  17. #17
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by V10SpeedLuvr View Post
    I agree with bottlefed. I'm all for having fun and ribbing, but everything has its time and place. Much like the Dave/RDR thread, Dave posted about a serious concern he had. Now there's a sub convo in the thread about a banana holder.
    It's not a banana-HOLDER...its a banana-BUNKER. Geesh.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    chad, luc, bottlefed, i think we are all on the same page. if for instance the "banana holder" post were to pop up in a vendor review thread, i think it should be deleted. i am not saying delete negative or positive comments, i think we need to hear them all. but delete only the posts that dont pertain to the review. personally i would like to see the review threads honest, first hand, and to the point without all the off topic chit-chat.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    well said luc

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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOTTLEFED View Post
    This is exactly the way I feel.
    The only reason I will renew my membership is for the How-tos. The catch-22 is that the only purely technical part of this whole site is for members only. So I must pay my ridiculous fees to get anything from the forums.

    The only reason I go to the Alley is for entertainment. It would be nice to have forums for the Viper community that are technically based. The VCA, for me, has turned into a waste of time for the most part. It has become rare that a truly informative thread pops up. But then the usual post whores clutter it up and make it difficult to sort out the good from the BS.

    I don't mind a place on the forums for chit-chatting and BSing, but the technical sections should be just that, technical.
    I have to 100% agree with BOTTLEFED. Keep the technical questions technical, and get rid of the posts that don't relate to them. If I have a question about my engine problem or something, I don't care to read about John Doe beating a Z06 on mainstreet on a Saturday night on my post.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by luc View Post
    Obviously the VCA decision to remove the "how-to" from the public section and reserve it to paying members was financialy motivated with the goal of increasing revenues..
    The hypocrite part is that, as stated, the VCA financial health depend on advertising ( sponsors and classifieds) and advertising rate/value is DIRECTLY related to the circulation (numbers of posters/posts/readers) and consequently, in order to have a viable business plan, the VCA need the participation of all the non-members ( enthousiasts and owners) on those forums but do not allow them to have access to what THEY believe is the most valuable section of this wesite.
    Going back to the thread subject:
    One of the main reason Ebay feedbacks are directly-to-the-point and short is because the lengh of the message itself is limited.
    So, if posting on the forum were to be limited to 20 words, a lot of the garbage will go away
    The reason the ebay feedback system works is that feedback is only left by members that have actually purchased/sold a product from one another. The ebay mechanisms to track, verify buyer/seller interactions makes the feedback very easy to control and administer. We do not have this luxury here.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    I don't think the goal was to increase revenues by making the How-To's accessible by VCA members only. The goal was to reward those of us who do join. If you don't care enough about the VCA to join, why should you get the same benefits that people who actually shell out $115/150 get? Thats like expecting Mercedes to supply you a loaner car everytime your Hyundai tears up. You pay for some privileges. Don't wanna pay? Don't expect the priviliges.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOTTLEFED View Post

    HA HA! I love it

    Dave,
    I think you are beginning to see how fVcked up this place is
    I know we started on here about the same time. I have experience with many other forums and have never been involved with such blatant one-sided censorship. The mods run this site like communist Russia.


    I can't even count how many of my posts get deleted without any notice or explanation. I'm sure this one will as well so read fast.


    Don't make too many waves about this. JonB is a beloved site-supporter and you are nothing. I doesn't matter how many negatives he gets as long as he is still giving $$ you will never win.



    but what do I know about running a forum, I'm only a moderator on a couple other forums

    I'm going to call BS on this. You registered here in 2007, you have absolutely NOT a freakin' clue about how the site was run up to the time we changed management two years ago. Luc was dead right there.

    Give some serious thought to WHY the Alley exists. It absolutely was created by a group that was so unhappy here that theyactually created another site. I joined the Alley as a Diamond member and spent a lot of time there as I was sorta unhappy myself. Given the opportunity with a couple other guys to reform this site and take it in a different direction I came back. We did that and you can ask ANYONE who was here before 2006 how different is is. Ask anyone who witnessed the "Great Bannings" in 2002 and you will really get an earfull. That's what created the Alley.

    And more BS, you have never had a post pulled that you were not notified about, if that did happen then it was part of a larger thread removal with multipages that was too time consuming to notify EVERY poster, sometimes that happens at the reguest of removal by the original poster or it was removed due to someone elses misbehavior, not yours.

    The policy is always to notify and I know that you and I had a fairly cordial conversation, at least it ended that way, about something of yours that was removed.
    I know you are a mod on a couple otther sites and it really surprises me that having had that background you would go after us with comments like these, you have to know how hard it is to be a Sheriff on a board.

    And yes this board is more heavily moderated than others, it's not just a board but a CLUB, and the board is looking to the future when we may have to support the club. So to that end we are fueling growth here, both in membership and $$. And we are succeeding.
    228,000 views a day, 7 million a month. We specifically do NOT want to run off the newbs like "Anything Goes" does. Just the opposite.
    So try not to worry that it ain't like the Alley or your sites, and talk too much and you just may find yourself being recruited to labor on the work force here.
    You would probably be good at it.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    I've been here just over 2 years now and one thing I've seen is that the mods here are very fair. Sometimes, more than fair. I think as with anything else in life, if someone is going to be an ass and come charging in guns-ablazing toward a mod here expect the same in return. Even then, the fine folks here have a very thick skin. They do listen and obviously the site has improved and has been upgraded over time. I'm sure the vendor review section will improve over time as well but I expect its going to be a full time job for any mod here in the meantime. I don't envy the mods right now. Let's cut them some slack.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    +1 on the limit word count for vendor review posts. 20 may not be enough, but 500 is way too many.

    Also on the subject of review forum discipline is that I was likely one that had a post pulled on that thread. When someone says they had had a positive experience but do not state what they purchased, then sometimes I ask. I think I did in that thread and if so it was inappropriate.

    On the business of gibberish versus technical posts, I am as guilty as guilty can be of doing both kinds of responses. But as I do more research here than most might think, I've never had any moments of disgust in trying to pick out the valuable parts of a thread. I can speed scroll through the jokes and so can you. So stop whining. Buy a book or something for those serious moments.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Isn't a reward an incentive? and if so wasn't the incentive done to increase the numbers of members and consequently the VCA revenues?

    A better analogy will be a Mercedes dealer service dept that need the Hyunday work and revenues to be a viable business and have a sign on the coffe machine that said: "For Mercedes Owner only"


    Quote Originally Posted by V10SpeedLuvr View Post
    I don't think the goal was to increase revenues by making the How-To's accessible by VCA members only. The goal was to reward those of us who do join. If you don't care enough about the VCA to join, why should you get the same benefits that people who actually shell out $115/150 get? Thats like expecting Mercedes to supply you a loaner car everytime your Hyundai tears up. You pay for some privileges. Don't wanna pay? Don't expect the priviliges.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by V10SpeedLuvr View Post
    I agree with bottlefed. I'm all for having fun and ribbing, but everything has its time and place. Much like the Dave/RDR thread, Dave posted about a serious concern he had. Now there's a sub convo in the thread about a banana holder. If you want to goof off and wreck threads, do it in the Snake Pit or the joke forum. Leave the General Viper forums to mostly technical speak. Joking is ok, but there's no need to make every single thread become a place to just bump post counts. When I joined, I was guilty of this myself...I entered my $0.02 in every thread whether I had anything valuable to say or not. Most of my crazy high post count came from my 1st year or 2 here. Now I see how truly annoying it can be to have to sift through chit-chat when you're actually trying to find some useful information. If someone is posting in the Gen 1/2/3/4 forums its because they prob have a problem/question with their car and need a serious answer. There's specific forums for most every topic...keep the goofing off where it belongs
    Our little Chad is growing up! (just messin with u bud)

    Hey... in defense of the Banana Bunkerô posts... they were only put in after the thread had gotten so stupid out of hand with people on both sides going in a circle and not getting anywhere in the discussion. It was put in to disrupt the negativity. Sometimes when type A's go at it, there's no breaking it up unless someone gets killed... or a Banana Bunker gets introduced.

    Now if people were in a serious discussion about strange engine troubles and someone blurts in with a Casaba Containerô... then yes, that would be inappropriate.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Ok to make things a bit better could we do a feedback rating simmilar to ebay? Perhaps giving vendors star ratings?

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    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfang View Post
    Our little Chad is growing up! (just messin with u bud)

    Hey... in defense of the Banana Bunkerô posts... they were only put in after the thread had gotten so stupid out of hand with people on both sides going in a circle and not getting anywhere in the discussion. It was put in to disrupt the negativity. Sometimes when type A's go at it, there's no breaking it up unless someone gets killed... or a Banana Bunker gets introduced.

    Now if people were in a serious discussion about strange engine troubles and someone blurts in with a Casaba Containerô... then yes, that would be inappropriate.
    I agree, and since I'm type A, its called metal masturbation.

  30. #30
    Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Littleton, CO
    Posts
    2,256

    Default Re: I've got a problem with the new Vendor Review Forum. Or maybe it's a question.

    I've only been on here as a lurker and then a member for 3 or 4 months, but I was drawn to this site solely for the technical information and expert opinions on, what else, vipers! I don't mind the threads that are for enjoyment/entertainment and the occassional off-beat remark in the technical threads, but they really do get off-track and even those that hi-jack the threads mention the hi-jacking in their posts...it's not like they don't know that they're doing it.

    That being said, I don't expect things to change just because of one Type A's opinion (that would be me)...just passing it along...

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