Thread: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

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  1. #1
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    Post Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    In light of recent events and some terrible tragedies involving new owners of the Dodge Viper - the members of the VCA Forums wish to provide the following insight into the Viper ownership experience - all in hopes of preventing accidents.

    Much of the Viper's appeal is it's "raw" attitude. It has few creature comforts and even fewer high tech driver aids.

    It's a wonderfully capable tool - much like a scalpel in the hands of a surgeon. However, a scalpel in the hands of a 2 year old is not a good thing. You - as a new Viper owner - are likely more of a 2 year old than a surgeon. Don't feel bad - we were all 2 once.

    Many of us grew up driving cars that could were virtually idiot proof. This is not one of these cars.

    Please understand the following things about the Viper:

    • It has more torque that any car you have ever driven. Torque means "turning force". It's the thrill of pushing you back in your seat - but it means the twisting can be brutal.
    • It has MASSIVE tires and can have tremendous grip. Your tires are the ONLY thing keeping you stuck to the road and are impacted by many variables.
    • It has few electronic driver aids that will come to your defense if you overstep the limits of tire adhesion.

    Here are some things that can keep you safe as you develop your relationship with your Viper:
    • Smooth inputs are more necessary in this car than any other. ANYTHING abrupt will unsettle the car. It DOES NOT appreciate a heavy hand, or a heavy foot. Either can send the car into a spin.
    • The tires will not work when cold, or - when OLD. Old tires = Hard tires. Even if they have loads of tread- they can be like hockey pucks. DO NOT skimp on tires. Again - they are the ONLY thing keeping you stuck to the pavement.
    • There is nothing that will pull you back once you have lost grip. No electronic Traction Control, no ESP, no power cutoff.
    • Many before you have not heeded these simple rules and have ended up with crashed cars. Or worse.

    Consider the first several hundred miles the "honeymoon phase" with your Viper. No full throttle, no cranking the wheel, no showing off. Consider taking our car to a local autocross to have some fun, and maybe even spin. In a parking lot. Consider just going to that empty parking lot and try a couple of maneuvers varying the smoothness of your inputs and see what happens. (if the car starts to spin - both feet in - clutch and brake).

    We want you around. We want you to love this car like we do.

    Please feel free to add to this list and perhaps we can put it together as a BIG sticky.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    If we're seriously considering the production of some kind of "sticker notice" I'd seriously suggest (despite the gruesomeness) it include photos of crashed Vipers and some (non-intruding) generic list of same. A simple serious "note" is not going to get anyone's attention. A 5 page "brochure" with several photos of carnage, a list of 200 crashed Vipers while still in their break in period titled "DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!" might get an owners attention.

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    Exclamation Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    I have seen and talked to sooo many owners/drivers having 9 or 10 year old tires and they do NOT like to listen.......lots of thread left.....go figure!

    Even had to deal with dealerships (also the idiot mentioned in my signature!) selling 5/6 year old tires as "new" to Viper owners ....

    Common sense is the KEY to survive.

    Use 400/500/600 hp with caution! Please.

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Agree on the "pictures worth a thousand words".

    Heck - I think I still have the pic of the 2003/2004 that was flipped over by a Ddoge staffer in front of the SRT Engineering center.

    Where do we start - wreckedexotics.com?

    Or - would anyone here care to contribute pics / stories?

    I envision a compare / contrast type thing - I don't want anyone thinking these cars are "unsafe" - because they are quite the opposite.

    I realize this is a fine line here...

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    unless you can get rid of mans ego, its gonna be hard to sort this out but bravo to janni for trying

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    If you have the need to feel the torque - always remember to keep the wheels pointing straight.

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Quote Originally Posted by plumcrazy View Post
    unless you can get rid of mans ego, its gonna be hard to sort this out but bravo to janni for trying
    Plum, you just said the magic word - EGO! Ego and attitude is what we are dealing with here, or at least a good part of it. We are all proud of our car and its capabilities; and rightly so; a lot of us are proud of our driving skills - sometimes rightly so, and sometimes not. The message we need to get across is this: none of our egos are worth wrecking a Viper, much less killing or injuring ourselves or someone else! In addition, public roads are NOT the place to demonstrate either our capabilities, or those of the car- EVER! Our car has nothing to prove; what it has done, over and over in competition, takes care of that. WE have nothing to prove except that we can drive it smoothly and safely. Anyone who needs to prove anything beyond that to anyone, needs to do it in a controlled, closed, competitive environment. On the street, the only thing as important as car control when driving a Viper is SELF-CONTROL.

    City, I don't know whether posting links to any of the (too many) crash threads here is overly intrusive or not, but at the least, a safety thread needs to contain some pics of wrecked Vipers -a little "shock therapy" with that is a good thing, however we do it. Along with that, can anyone verify the following statistics: 38% of Vipers are wrecked in the first six months of ownership; 21% in the first 200 miles? If that's verified, we ought to include it.

    One more thought: a lot of newcomers to the car are not prepared to the attention it generates on the street -good and bad. Some drivers of other cars, for whatever reason, do stupid and/or aggressive things around a Viper. Tempting as it may be for some, it is NOT a good idea to reciprocate or retaliate. The risk is simply not worth it; WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE, except that we are smarter than that!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    This is a great suggestion but the bottom line is that the majority of owners have at one time or another had history with a variety of muscle cars. Some of the cars I helped build and drove daily to high school would pull wheel stands. This was in the late 60's when there were real muscle cars. My son loves to hear the stories and has seen the trophies. The torque in most of these cars wasn't at all like the Viper.
    I had been away from muscle car "shenanigans" for some years while I put my 3 kids through college until I bought my "well deserved reward" and dream car a year ago. I had read all of the "warning" posts but I was of the notion that these guys "don't know how to drive a fast car but I do." I had come within .3 tenths of a second of the track record down in Orlando Florida 35 years ago on a road course and had plenty of 1/8 and 1/4 mile fun blowing stuff away on the weekends. I learned very quickly I was wrong. I went to a huge empty parking lot with my new to me 94 RT/10 Viper with 15000 miles and the original tires on it to see what it would do and also to squelch the "it'll get away from you in a heart beat" theory. Remember "I thought I knew how to drive fast powerful cars." I pointed it straight like everyone suggested and started a slow roll. I then rev'd her up and "dumped the clutch". The tires started spinning like crazy, smoke started billowing and then it happened. I went about 25 feet and the car did a 360. Thankfully I hadn't eaten anything in a while so my pants weren't ruined but let me tell you that this silver haired young guy at heart learned a valuable lesson. I was a believer in all the posts I had read about respecting the car and its torque. The torque is unbelievable. All the guys that say "that's not me..I know how to drive a powerful car, they don't know what they're talking about" beware if you've never owned a Viper. Play with it somewhere where it's safe and make sure the lot doesn't have those concrete based light poles in it. Steer clear of them.
    I have called Summit Point but they said I couldn't run their road courses without a roll bar but sure would love to find a road course that will let me have some fun. Any suggestions for a non-roll bar car close to Northern Va?
    Great post! Get the word out any way we can about respecting these cars. The Viper made a believer out of me.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    veeten- great story.

    I will say that many Viper owners are getting younger. In the late 60's - I was a toddler.

    I grew up when engines were smaller and we were waiting in line for gas.... 8 cylinders were a thing of the past - we had a Citation that I learned to drive in - grandparents had an Omega, and even when parents got a Firebird - it was a 6 cyl!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Funny, all the advise directly applies to sportbikes as well. I'm convinced my experience on sportbikes it what allowed me to safely drive my Viper. My only vehicle before hand was a 1.6L inline 4 Dodge Ram 50. Had I not learned a bit of self control and smooth control inputs on the bike I'm sure I'd have wrapped the Viper around a tree or something.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    I was wondering if a DVD, something on the order of the VCR that came with Gen11 Vipers, possibly made by VCA and touting both safe use of the car and the benifits the club offers. Dealers could show it to buyers, or give them a copy with the car at the time of purchase. Just a thought. What say you?

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    My $0.02 for a new owner in addition to making sure the wheels are pointed straight when getting on the go pedal. Dont be tempted by all of the people that will ask you to do a burnout. If you are rolling forward and dump the clutch and hit the go pedal, the Viper can tail around faster than you can react.

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Interesting thing here is that you don't need a Viper to cause a fatal crash. Just found out that one of my friends from college was killed over the weekend on I-95 in PA. Wet roads, high rate of speed, rapid lane changes in a lancer. While my friend wasn't the driver, the consequences were fatal non the less.

    Being 1 month into Viper ownership, I am very careful ... the minivans that pass me must get a real thrill :-) I have found that on rutted roads, the exceptionally fat tires cause the car to track rather harshly. Other than that, I find it to be a very fun car, but I'll keep my learning curve slow and hope to get it onto a track for some real driving and leave the smooth cruising to the streets.

    Should the Viper carry a warning label, I don't think so. The buyers should have researched the car pretty well before taking the plunge. That said, I definitely think new owners such as myself should heed the advice, take it easy, and take it upon themselves to take a high performance driving class when available.

    Of course, what would really be nice would be if people would understand that if they leave 5 minutes earlier then they don't have to do 100mph down the highway...or if you're 5 minutes late, it is really no big deal.

    RIP Patrick :-(
    1994 RT/10 - Smooth Tubes, Tom's 40mm Brakes, Belanger Headers, High Flow Cats/Catback, Ported Heads, Cam, 1.7's

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    My suggestion, besides echoing what has already been mentioned, is for a new owner to take their time with it. Even an experience sports car owner/driver can have one of these get away from them rather quickly.

    Enjoy a slow ride once in a while and ease into the throddle and brake. As already mentioned, the tires are all you have connecting it to the ground. The torque of these engines coupled with the lack of electronic input controls gives the viper the raw appeal. It also makes you look foolish should you put in the ditch.

    When you buy a gun it does not come with anything more than a booklet if even that. I doubt that the addition of a cd/dvd would aid in saving any vipers or lives. If someone is one here and browsing around, chances are they not the careless new drivers we are speaking of.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    I remember an Enzo had a door sticker “Please remember You are NOT Michael Schumacher” or something like that. No warnings will replace knowledge and experience. Soft input, like on motorcycles, ease into and ease out the throttle, clutch and brakes will help.

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Maybe the simple thing to do is REQUIRE the selling dealers to advise the customer of these things and other items at the time of delivery as not everyone comes here before purchasing. Of course this would not work for used owner sales.
    Mark Jorgensen, Manager
    woodhousemotorsports.com 402-677-2935 Cell

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    mjorgensen , what makes you think that a salesman working at dealership fully(or even partialy) understands the danger/potential/ect... of the viper well enough to explain it to another Newb

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom426h View Post
    mjorgensen , what makes you think that a salesman working at dealership fully(or even partially) understands the danger/potential/ect... of the viper well enough to explain it to another Newb

    You are correct, that is exactly why the dealers that sell vipers NEED to be qualified to sell them AND service them IMHO. Would you buy a new Viper from a motorcycle dealer?
    Mark Jorgensen, Manager
    woodhousemotorsports.com 402-677-2935 Cell

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    How about the powers that be create a DVD for every owner of at least a new Viper that explains all the safety precautions and an overall experience of what Viper ownership is all about. Plus maybe some CAAP footage of cars being built. It would really add a personal touch to the sale and may stop a few accidents along the way.

    Bruce

    Bruce

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Quote Originally Posted by viper067 View Post
    Interesting thing here is that you don't need a Viper to cause a fatal crash. Just found out that one of my friends from college was killed over the weekend on I-95 in PA. Wet roads, high rate of speed, rapid lane changes in a lancer. While my friend wasn't the driver, the consequences were fatal non the less.

    Being 1 month into Viper ownership, I am very careful ... the minivans that pass me must get a real thrill :-) I have found that on rutted roads, the exceptionally fat tires cause the car to track rather harshly. Other than that, I find it to be a very fun car, but I'll keep my learning curve slow and hope to get it onto a track for some real driving and leave the smooth cruising to the streets.

    Should the Viper carry a warning label, I don't think so. The buyers should have researched the car pretty well before taking the plunge. That said, I definitely think new owners such as myself should heed the advice, take it easy, and take it upon themselves to take a high performance driving class when available.

    Of course, what would really be nice would be if people would understand that if they leave 5 minutes earlier then they don't have to do 100mph down the highway...or if you're 5 minutes late, it is really no big deal.

    RIP Patrick :-(
    Was he in the car that went under the truck killing everybody in the car? Very sad indeed.

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    My message has been the same since before Janni was a novice.....NOW she's an acknowledged expert, and I heartily reinforce her comments.

    My confession: When I picked up my first Viper on May 30, 1993, I almost crashed it entering Interstate 5. My past Lotus-Porsche-Vette-Jag skills were thought to be enough. They weren't.

    I was YEEEE-HAWING my way up the entrance ramp, 2 miles from the dealer and yawed nearly sideways. When my pulse slowed to <100 I decided Id probably need a good driving school, and booked it within a few weeks. [My prior driving school was in 1971 at the Vette plant in St Louis. ]

    I soon learned that Gen-1 alignment and snow-tire ruts had prompted my scary tail-wag....but the school saved my car and maybe my life since that 1993 lucky save.

    Your own hands and feet have more total surface area than a Viper's contact patches.

    And yet we ask the Viper to do phenominal, grippy things on hard rubber. DONT TRUST OLD TIRES to hold the road even if the tread looks good. Dont replace 1-2 new tires and leave 2-3 old tires. [Used-car sellers do this frequently.]

    Dont assume that because you owned a Porsche or a vette etc you can immediately handle a Viper, even at 75%. You probably cannot, unless you KNOW how to 'steer the rear" as any good autocrosser knows. A Viper needs extra skills.

    GO TO SCHOOL...on GOOD TIRES. Be Careful Out There.....
    Last edited by JonB; 10-06-2009 at 12:24 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    I keep a small pic of a wrecked viper just like mine in the car.... A reminder, so to speak.. If I stop posting, you'll know it didn't work.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Find a dry,large open parking lot with zero traffic.Practice turning,braking,stopping,accelerating etc...

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Quote Originally Posted by BlknBlu View Post
    How about the powers that be create a DVD for every owner of at least a new Viper that explains all the safety precautions and an overall experience of what Viper ownership is all about. Plus maybe some CAAP footage of cars being built. It would really add a personal touch to the sale and may stop a few accidents along the way.

    Bruce

    Bruce
    I really, really like this idea. Harley-Davidson has done this for years and I really appreciated it when I was a newb to Harleys. If we have footage already or if someone wants to video tape some footage, I have some decent editing software and could edit it.

    Dodge wouldn't even need to really provide it or mention it but it's something we could put on the board to welcome newbs. As a newb myself, I have learned a ton from others on driving the car. Personally, it took a little "testing" to even remotely understand what is meant by "massive tork". I felt the back slip a couple times and was able to regain composure. I have, however, gotten the overwhelming sense that I was lucky. It sounds like many others have not been.

    Thanks for all the time and experience you have all shared with me. I appreciate it (and so does my wife from the passenger side)!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    no joke on this article. i concider myself an experienced sports car driver and it took me about 6 weeks before my i felt i controlled my first viper. as much fun as these cars are they will bite you hard if you don't respect them.

    steve

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Quote Originally Posted by gen2lover View Post
    Find a dry,large open parking lot with zero traffic.Practice turning,braking,stopping,accelerating etc...

    I disagree a bit! If you just go yeee-hawwww in a parking lot you wont acquire any new skills, you will only reinforce old bad habits. Not a waste, becasue you may indeed test and learn some vehicle limits, but you wont learn any new handling skills.

    The skills to recognize weight transfer for example, and NOT lift in turns, cannot be self-taught the first time. Many at-the-limits skills are the reverse of what your brain tells you. They are counter-intuitive. I have had students tell me " You are kidding, right?!?" They must be taught, and learned, and THEN practiced.

    Take a driving school if and when you can...
    Last edited by JonB; 10-07-2009 at 06:31 PM.
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    Thumbs up Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Quote Originally Posted by okloneranger View Post
    I was wondering if a DVD, something on the order of the VCR that came with Gen11 Vipers, possibly made by VCA and touting both safe use of the car and the benifits the club offers. Dealers could show it to buyers, or give them a copy with the car at the time of purchase. Just a thought. What say you?
    While we cannot legally offer safety tips on a Dodge publication (liability for both parties I suspect), we are way ahead of you on touting the benefits of the VCA with every new Viper purchased. Be sure to order your 2010 Viper and check out the new DVD-based owners manual that comes with it!

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    Thumbs up Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Quote Originally Posted by Y2K5SRT View Post
    While we cannot legally offer safety tips on a Dodge publication (liability for both parties I suspect), we are way ahead of you on touting the benefits of the VCA with every new Viper purchased. Be sure to order your 2010 Viper and check out the new DVD-based owners manual that comes with it!
    Now, do you think this DVD could be available for purchase to educate *new* Viper Owners as well?
    ~juli

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    true Jon...

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    Default Re: Keeping new Viper owners SAFE - a How To:

    Quote Originally Posted by mike & juli View Post
    Now, do you think this DVD could be available for purchase to educate *new* Viper Owners as well?
    ~juli

    Juli I agree..... a '2010 Owners DVD' hits only a tiny handful of owners in 1st quarter, and maybe 900-1000 (?) by year end 2010.

    Undoubtedly this VCA DVD has value far beyond that future and tiny 2010 owner footprint ? Lets ROLL.. Renewal gift for 2010 ??
    JonB~ Int'l Viper Registry NW Region Charter Pres 93-95;VCA "Founding Fourteen" 1995;VCA Nat'l Secty-Treasurer 95-97;VCA Nat'l Secretary 98-99;VCA NW President 95-02;VCA National / Regional Sponsor 96-13;SRT Viper Cup Sponsor, 2010-13

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