Thread: Big Brake Dilema

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  1. #1
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    Default Big Brake Dilema

    My 2000 ACR already has EBC Slotted and Dimpled Rotors with EBC Red Stuff Ceramic Pads and the calipers have already been powered coated. After closer inspection of my rotors, they appear to be worn out and need to be replaced.

    A few months ago before I bought my car, I bought a set of 4 SRT-10 calipers for another project. Now I am thinking about using these calipers on my Gen 2. But here are my concerns.

    #1. Do you have to upsize your wheels to fit the bigger brakes? (Current wheels ACR 18's)

    #2. Would I be able to use the spare tire with the bigger brakes?

    #3. I was hoping to get bigger rims in the future with a deep dish in the rear, so how much dish will I lose on the bigger brakes? I was hoping to get around 4" with the stock brakes.

    #4. Or should I just replace my current rotors and be done with it?

    Thanks! Pictures to follow later.
    Last edited by Jance GTS; 04-24-2010 at 03:44 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Gen 2s come with 13" rotors. SRT10s come with 14" brakes. Different calipers and different mounting systems.

    Adapters are required to bolt the SRT10 calipers to the Gen 2 spindles.

    I upgraded my 2001 GTS to 14" roeracing lighweight front brakes (SS lines). The 2000 ACRs rear calipers came with 34 or 36mm pistons and that is the bad part of the Gen 2 brakes. The ABS cars came with 44mm rear caliper pistons and work excellent. Tom's rear caliper upgrades are an excellent investment for the rear and the lightweight 14" front kit is great for the fronts. Tom's site had stopping distances etc and shows that the biggest improvement would be the rear caliper upgrade.

    The rotors have a minimium thickness. That is the way to check their wear.

    I have Forgeline VR1s installed on my GTS with the Roe 14" brakes. There is adequate caliper clearance. Apparently the stock 18" wheels need spacers to fit the calipers if going with 1 piece rotors. The calipers do not fit as the Gen 3/4s are a complete different mounting system, different size, pads, bolts, etc. I never thought to try the spare tire to see if it fits over the front brakes. Now I will assume that it will not fit.




    Ted

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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Thanks for the info Ted! I know about Dave's Big Brakes and Tom's. Since I already have the SRT-10 calipers I looked into Dave's kit. I really want to keep the spare tire (just incase) but if I need new rotors, might as well get the 14" and use my SRT-10 calipers and get the brackets and parking brake.

    It would be cheaper to get new 13" rotors and be done with it, but I would like to use my new calipers if I'm going to upgrade anything.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    I recommend upgrading the brakes. Gotta love it when old cars stop as well as the best in the world.

    Brake stuff is very expensive, but check it out. If it prevents even one accident it was worth the money!

    Ted

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    BBD did a spare wheel adapter to fit the wheel over the SRT calipers

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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Quote Originally Posted by VIPER BAZ UK View Post
    BBD did a spare wheel adapter to fit the wheel over the SRT calipers

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    And it works like a charm.

    BB upgrade fits fine with ACR wheels; no spacers required

    If you have the calipers you're half way there. Get the rotors and Dave's kit and you'll love it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Is this setup going to be for street driving only?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Thanks for the help! This will be for the street and not on a track. What would you think it would cost to get everything that I need minus the calipers?

    Any info on the deep dish rear rim?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Quote Originally Posted by RTTTTed View Post
    Brake stuff is very expensive, but check it out.

    Not always!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    I can't get a clean picture without taking off the wheel, but the thickness of the rotor has worn down to about the thickness of a penny or a nickel...

    Here is a terrible I just took LOL

    http://i39.tinypic.com/wchcfa.jpg

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Quote Originally Posted by Jance GTS View Post
    I can't get a clean picture without taking off the wheel, but the thickness of the rotor has worn down to about the thickness of a penny or a nickel...

    Here is a terrible I just took LOL

    http://i39.tinypic.com/wchcfa.jpg
    The holes themselves are irrelevant. The rotor thickness is the thickness of the rotor itself. A predetermined thickness of the metal is required to absorb and dissapate the heat from the braking friction. My Stop-tech rotors are cross-drilled and slotted. Holes are drilled all the way through. Slots are part way and their purpose is to dissapate gases created by the extreme heat of friction.



    Here's the difference between the stop-tech lightweight 13" rotors and stock Gen 2 calipers as compared to the Roe 14" lightweight brake kit (slotted only).

    Ted

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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    If you look at the edges of the rotors you can see the cooling vanes in the middle and the thickness of the friction surface. These 13" rotor had very few miles (<10K?).




    For track use drilled rotors are not recommended as they develop "heat check" under severe useage, although they're great for the street. Since I run my car at the track once in a great while, I have Roe's slotted rotors on the front. Equivalent to new ACR brakes. I highly recommend the lightweight rotors if you've got the money to spend.



    The spokes of the wheels just clear the calipers so you're not going to get much rim edge width showing . The wheels that are curved inwards to provide some rim edge width are a compromise on strength and you'd have to speak to wheel sellers of builder to try and find a safe Billet or Forged set that aren't too heavy. Personally, I really enjoy the Billet wheels on my GTS but they're unavailabe now. The factory ACR Forged BBS wheels look great and even better when they're chromed. Otherwise there are a large selection of lighweight wheels available for Vipers now.

    Ted

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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    I plan on going with billet 19's and 20's later but I need to do the brakes now so I get the offset that I need to clear the bigger brakes. I really want just a little bit of deep dish since the stock ACR rims don't have any.

    I found this picture searching the forums. The outer part of his rotors are about twice as thick as what mine are right now. If you look at my picture that I posted early, you can see that one of the holes is about a half moon shape compared to this.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    If I upgrade to the 14" rotors and SRT-10 calipers, will they fit inside my stock 18" ACR rims?

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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Quote Originally Posted by All Blue ACR View Post
    And it works like a charm.

    BB upgrade fits fine with ACR wheels; no spacers required

    If you have the calipers you're half way there. Get the rotors and Dave's kit and you'll love it.
    All Blue ACR is using his ACR wheels with his B Brakes.

    The pic you posted is of a rear brake upgrade with no caliper (just the mechanical park brake). Smaller and thinner than front rotors.

    Proper way to measure rotor thickness, although a micrometer should be used unless the edge of the rotor is flush with the wear/friction surface.



    The Eradispeed drilled/slotted rotors for my ACR ...



    Ted

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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Thanks Ted! That is true about the picture I posted. Both of my rotors front and back look the same thickness though.

    What do you think it would cost to get all 14" rotors and the proper brackets I need to mount them and the parking brake? I can get the 2 piece 14" Baer front rotors for $545 a pair.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Front and rear rotors are completely different. Thickness, offset and overall thickness of friction surfaces are not even close. The front rotors are well over an inch thick while the rears are probably only about an inch. The differences between the front and rear friction surfaces are about 40%. Some big brake kits use the front Gen 2 calipers and 13" front rotors re-mounted on the rear to save money. Front brake ...



    and looking at the rear brake the difference can be easily seen ...



    If you read Tom's site you'll find that the rear brakes only do about 20% of the braking and that's why the pads and calipers are smaller on almost all cars. Without ABS (before '01 for Vipers) all cars use a proportioning valve to cut brake pressure to the rear brakes so that the rears won't lock up and cause a loss of control because of too much braking.

    Front and rear braking proportions are also adjusted by the size (surface area) of the caliper pistons. There is a lot more to brake systems than just 1, 4 and 6 piston calipers.

    Big Brake kits cost quite a bit and a racing upgrade would be somewhere around $5500? I upgraded the front of my GTS to 14" lightweight and have 13" lightweight rotors with EBC RED pads all around on my '01 ABS. My 98 GTS had had Tom's rear calipers and Eradispeed lightweight rotors all around. It stopped excellent. My 01 GTS stops better with the 14" fronts. It's just my opinion, but for the street I don't think more brakes would mean more stopping.

    For prices you could call JonB or Roe Racing. I think that JonB has taken over selling of Big Brake Dave's stuff. If you are after pieces etc. JonB ([email protected],) is probably your best choice.

    Ted

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    I have 3" rear lip on mine:

    http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gt...s-mounted.html

    There might be room for a 4" lip depending on the curvature of the spokes and offset/backspacing.

    Alex

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Ok I got my BBK from Dave's Big Brakes. I will be going with 14" rotors all the way around. I'm trying to install my rear brackets and I just want to make sure if I need to cut the mounting tabs on the spindle like this picture? My instructions said nothing about this.



    I got the Gen 2 13" bracket kit for my 14" rotors and srt-10 calipers. I hope this is the right bracket? Do I need to start cutting?


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    yup, you need to cut those off.

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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Quote Originally Posted by Jance GTS View Post
    I got the Gen 2 13" bracket kit for my 14" rotors and srt-10 calipers. I hope this is the right bracket? Do I need to start cutting?
    13" bracket kit for 14" rotors???

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Ok I was just told that I was sent the wrong rear brackets, so the new ones are on their way. I'm glad I didn't cut anything yet

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    I think your slots are oriented backwards, but it depends on the cooling vanes.

    Last edited by GTS Dean; 06-24-2010 at 11:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Quote Originally Posted by Jance GTS View Post
    I'm glad I didn't cut anything yet
    The cut is exactly the same but the brackets will then work being the correct size.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Quote Originally Posted by GTS Dean View Post
    I think your slots are oriented backwards, but it depends on the cooling vanes.

    They are oriented acorrding to cooling vanes and I installed them correctly. Sean also used a felt pen and marked the correct sides to instal them on.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    What kind of brake fluid should I use? Brand etc...

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    For street use why spend more than you need like an everyday type DOT 4 fluid from AutoZone etc (Prestone? Castrol?). If you track the car then you should step up to your budget limits (Motul?).

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Motul 600 for the track (road course not drag strip)

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    I just got my new rear brackets. These look the same as the front brackets for the Gen 3 calipers? Before I cut off the mounting tabs in the rear, what is the best way to mark the spindle so I don't cut to much off? It looks like I would have issues with the calipers being to far in if I mark them wrong. I'm going to do this tonight. Thanks!


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Big Brake Dilema

    Cut line is right there LOL


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