ATF+4 or Synthetic manual fluid for 98 GTS???

[Invasivore]

I can't seem to find whether you can run synthetic manual tranny fluid in my 98. I read in one thread, Tom spoke of a paper like friction surface in the earlier T56 that possibly was not compatible with the newer synthetic manual transmission fluid, but no definite answer was established. Anyone have input on the matter?

Jeff

 

[cfiiman]

I researched this a while back, and the synthetic I read was if you had NGR (neutral gear rattle) which I didn't in my 94 so I used the ATF+4 which is also much cheaper.

Steve-Indy had good insight for me back when I was doing it hopefully he will chime in.

 

[Ron]

In 1998 you can use either. It was earlier GENI's that had potential issues with the Mopar Synthetic Gear Lube. I have a 1996 and have used both but prefer the ATF+4 as it's better shifting and cheap enough to justifying changing out every year.

I'm sure Steve will be back in the morning to comment further...

 

[uvbnbit]

I can't seem to find whether you can run synthetic manual tranny fluid in my 98. I read in one thread, Tom spoke of a paper like friction surface in the earlier T56 that possibly was not compatible with the newer synthetic manual transmission fluid, but no definite answer was established. Anyone have input on the matter?

Jeff

I replied to this in PM you sent. This is the part I couldn't think of. I'm running the Dexron now (VI, I think) for this reason. I think it is a ring of some sort.
Shop told me this was the reason for my "clunky" 2nd/3rd gear shifts when cold.

 

[Invasivore]

In 1998 you can use either. It was earlier GENI's that had potential issues with the Mopar Synthetic Gear Lube. I have a 1996 and have used both but prefer the ATF+4 as it's better shifting and cheap enough to justifying changing out every year.

I'm sure Steve will be back in the morning to comment further...

How long have you been running the ATF + 4, does brand of fluid matter?

 

[Jack B]

How long have you been running the ATF + 4, does brand of fluid matter?

The mopar synthetic has been the fluid of choice for the the Gen II's.

 

[uvbnbit]

Service manual calls for Dexron3 (14 yrs ago ). Are you planning on running your car hard? strip? track?, etc?

 

[Steve-Indy]

Dexron II-e then Dexton III (starting in 1997) WAS the factory fill through 1998. If a driver suffered excessive NGR, there was a May 1998 TSB that covered replacement of the Dexron fluids in 1994-1998 Vipers with the new (1999-2006) factory fill Jack mentioned ( "Mopar Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant 75W-85"...called Castrol Syntorq 75W-85). This new fluid stayed as the factory fill through 2006. With the arrival of the TR6060 tranny in 2008-2010 Vipers, the factory fill became Mopar ATF+4.

ATF+4 has been approved to replace Dexton II-e and III.

Bottom line, if you are happy with how your tranny performs, I would suggent that you use similar fluids as to what is in the tranny now.
The "Dexrons" are RED, while the "Mopar Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant 75W-85" is clear when new. Take a sample through the fill hole on the left upper rear of the tranny to determine what is in it. Not all dealers stock "Mopar Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant 75W-85" due to it's expense.


Like Ron (who was the guy who actually tracked down retired Borg Warner employees in order to better understand the reason 92 & 93 Vipers were left out of the May 1998 TSB)...I have continued the factory fill models with no complaints or problems in all Gens of our Vipers...ATF+4 for Gen I's and our 97 Gen II...and "Mopar Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant 75W-85" in the 99, 01, and 03. While I have not changed the tranny fluid on the Gen IV's, I do plan to use the factory fill of Mopar ATF+4.

FINAL NOTES: Our Vipers see street use only, while some track cars use other fluids.

Also...BE CAREFUL with substitutions regardless of the claims from their manufacturers and suppliers !!! Do a search on GL-4 vs GL-5

 

[Ron]

Well said Steve - Thanks for the detailed explaination. It's been a while but yes, the Borg Warner guys (who designed and manufactered the T-56's until 1998 when the design was sold to Tremac) stated the the paper lined syncros of the very early units weren't Castrol Syntorque (Mopar Synthetic Gear Lube) friendly. ATF has been used in Chrysler manual transmissions for years, including the Hemi A-833 4 speed. Even then though, they allowed gear oil for customers that complained about gear rattle and were unconcerned with slightly harder shifting.

 

[ACELLR8]

In response to this I was curious. I have the Mopar synthetic Lubricant 75W-85 in my 95 and the 01 viper. The 95 shifts so much easier and effortless than the 01 ever has. Would changing from the mopar synthetic to the ATF make the shifting easier in the GTS and provide the same wear protection?

Both of them are fresh fluid with less than 5k miles.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Ron]

I can only share my experience and I find ATF+4 to be a better shifting fluid at any temperature.

As far as wear protection, I'm not qualified to answer. I can say that from what I read, ATF+4 is the best of the ATF fluid types (not speaking of specific brands) and significantly better than the orginal spec'd Dexton III, meaning that it's a durability upgrade for any pre-1998 Viper. Better than Mopar Synthetic Gear Oil? No idea. That's a question for Tom. Intuitively we like to believe heavier weight = more protection but not sure that formula is still valid given all of the additive / base oil advancements.

And again, I like the durability idea of annual fluid changes. Call me cheap but I'm not changing out the Mopar gear oil annually (3,000 miles per year) for a $100 a pop. ATF+4, not a problem.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Ed, I think that switching to ATF+4 would indeed make your tranny shift easier as the 75W-85 is much "stiffer" before fully becoming warm...assuming that there is nothing wrong with your tranny and clutch.Remember, I'm not a mechanic. Suggest that you read Tech Notes on page 40 in Viper Mag Spring 2008 issue as it covers Viper tranny fluids.

Edited to remove my typing errors as I was on a failing PDA!!

 

[ACELLR8]

Ron & Steve,

Thanks for the responses, that certainly gives me something to think about. Maybe when Chuck gets back from England I will run it by him. I will definitely check out the Spring issue of Viper Mag as well. Shifting definitely gets easier when the car and tranny are warm. After searching on the Forums I see that several other people complain of the same thing on the Viper. Strange since my Gen I shifts so much easier and I am under the impression they are the same Tranny.

Just last week I put the LUK clutch in the 01 because my slave cylinder was leaking and figured while I was in there. Of course when I was pulling the tranny I leaked about 1/2 quart of the Synthetic out, so I went to the Dodge dealer to purchase 1 new quart, $39.95 a quart. I just changed both cars less than 2 years ago and it was $20 a quart last time I bought the same stuff. Kind of hate to scrap $160 worth of oil, but it may be worth a shot.

If I do the Dextron I will post the outcome whether it makes shifting easier.

Thanks
Ed

 

[Steve-Indy]

Hi, Ed. Did you mean ATF+4 above where you wrote..."If I do the Dextron" ??

NOT sure what will/might happen if you change to ATF+4 in a 2001 Viper T-56...noting the Tech Notes on page 40 of the Spring 2008 VM issue noted above says this about 1999 through 2006 Vipers:

"1999-2006 Viper Manual Transmissions use Mopar Synthetic Manual Transmissiom Lubricant, SAE 75W-85 GL-4, part no. 04874459, meeting MS-9070".

Therefore, being chicken, I would stick with the recommended fluid as I have no desire to do an experimental trial on OUR Vipers (nor yours!!).

I will also say that we have been able to negotiate discounts on parts and fluids at many of our Regional dealers. Also, if you try a Corvette dealer, you may be able to buy the same fluid "Castrol Syntorq 75W-85" in the handy round container for less $$$.

FINAL NOTE: Many folks have assumed that the ATF+4 is some form of continuation of the Dexron line...IT IS NOT !!! Be carefull here!!!

 

[Steve-Indy]

Anyone remember a very hot team that used to run in the Viper Days of old??

It was called "Desert Venom"...and one notable member did much more than drive...Mr. Frank Parise.

Frank wrote some very informative blurbs on this site...from car choice, to setup, maintenance (including a spreadsheet
covering their fluid changing schedules and actual consumption in over 20,000 miles of track time!!! Frank offered a lot of useful info here...noting that many other very credible and experienced Viper folks often joined in the discussions.

If one goes to advanced search and enters a simple keyword such as "differential" (which leads to his famous "check list" advice) or
"brake fluid" AND enter his exact name, you should get one of his threads...THEN click on his NAME and browse through the 4 web pages of his
observations.

"Those who ignore history are bound (or doomed) to repeat it" is actually a mis-quotation of the original text written by George
Santayana, who, in his Reason in Common Sense, The Life of Reason, Vol.1, wrote

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

[ACELLR8]

Steve,

Yeah I actually meant the Dextron. Ok I think I will just leave the synthetic in there and leave well enough alone.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Steve-Indy]

You do know that Mopar's Dexron III that came in your tranny has been discontinued, right?? While there IS a Dexron VI (GM), I know nothing of it's properties or compatibilities (or lack thereof) with your transmission.

Maybe I can drop by the Corvette place and price their Syntorq 75W-85 soon.