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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    dont mean to correct

    400-->450-->460(smooth tubes on gts-r(gt1 replicas)-->505-->510(new rating system same engine)-->600-->640.........sorry just playing around but true

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nine Ball:3062025
    100 was a typo, sorry.
    I hoped so!

    And yes, I'd take any Viper over a 650HP mustang. But I don't really think it's performance people are disappointed about, it's more just how it looks on paper. Mustang guys now having bragging rights that a stock mustang makes more HP than a n American supercar...and that's just not right. No, the mustang wont be faster than the Viper in any form of racing, but its the principle. That'd be like the Challenger SRT8 making more HP than a ZR1 Vette.

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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nine Ball View Post
    I'd take a 500 hp Viper over a 650 hp Mustang.
    I made a similar decision when I bought my Gen 3. And, if I wanted I could easily trade my Gen 3 for a 650hp Mustang, but I won't. I would rather trade my Viper for a new 392 Challenger and mod the crap out of the Challenger than have the Mustang.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    I would just love to see SRT come out with a turbo or supercharged version. I mean that's how Mustang and ZR1 get those big numbers. Supercharge a Viper motor that is already 640hp and see what you get (800hp?).

    All it would have to be is a special edition Viper and not all Vipers (just like not all Mustangs are 650hp and not all Vettes are ZR1's). Call it a Viper GTS-X or something. That would shut up all the talk. The Mustang and ZR1 would be so far behind the would have to add two more cylinders...

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    ZOMG! A supercharged 3800 lb brick has a magazine rating of 10 more flywheel hp! The GEN 5 is a total POS! I won't even buy one now because some Ford guy has a bigger advertised hp rating than my Viper.

    What a bunch of pointless whining. Did anyone stop to think that maybe the 640 number is underrated....on purpose...at least for the time being? The Gen IV is rated at 600 hp, but they dyno around 545-550 rwhp bone stock. That 600 hp number was underrated. I have no reason to believe the 640 number isn't underrated as well. Add to that the fact that the car dropped 100 lbs, got better gearing, better tires, better brakes, and better suspension and you have to be kidding yourself if you think that a Mustang is going to be any competition...other than on paper.

    Not to stereotype, but the guys who generally whine about "not enough" horsepower on paper are the guys who wreck their bone stock Gen 2's in a parking lot because they can't handle the torque. I heard the same bitching when the Z06 came out at 505 hp....from guys who were already scared to death of their stock Gen 3's. They just wanted paper bragging rights.

    If the sole reason you don't buy a Gen 5 is because of its underrated flywheel hp numbers (setting aside the killer interior, suspension, design, etc, etc) then there is no hope for you.

    The Gen 5 is going to be the best Viper ever built by all standards. EVERYTHING about that car is going to better than EVERYTHING about the past generations (other than some opinions on looks, but that's totally subjective). I think when you guys see actual road and track tests of this car up against the Mudstain and the Slomaro, you'll change your tune. Hopefully, a couple of well written magazine articles and ET's can make some of the bench racers feel better about the Viper again.

    Signed,
    I have 946 rwhp/909 tq on pump gas and I'd sell my car in a heartbeat for a lowly 640 hp Gen 5.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    I love the car, but I think we all wanted just a bit more HP, given where the competition is.

    Heck the G4 is ther ring king, so why not just leave it at 600? Please...
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  7. #37
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    Lightbulb Re: Oh for god sakes

    The 640 rating is probably conservative , for the competion ! So as not to tip there hand this early in the Game ! I believe there is more on the table for future competitors . IMHO

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by C.Hermsen View Post
    I hoped so!

    And yes, I'd take any Viper over a 650HP mustang. But I don't really think it's performance people are disappointed about, it's more just how it looks on paper. Mustang guys now having bragging rights that a stock mustang makes more HP than a n American supercar...and that's just not right. No, the mustang wont be faster than the Viper in any form of racing, but its the principle. That'd be like the Challenger SRT8 making more HP than a ZR1 Vette.
    As a former (multiple) Mustang owner, I can assure you that Mustang guys will have zero bragging rights whatsoever towards someone that owns a new Viper. HP ratings or not, they still have to drive home in the Mustang.
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nine Ball View Post
    As a former (multiple) Mustang owner, I can assure you that Mustang guys will have zero bragging rights whatsoever towards someone that owns a new Viper. HP ratings or not, they still have to drive home in the Mustang.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Our newest Gen V Viper just released,
    Stryker be thy name.

    From a Detroit kingdon they come,
    To all tracks be won,

    Onto Nurburgring as it is the test of the newest generation.

    Give us this day the latest and the greatest,
    And forgive us the whiners who will be singing your praises in the very near future.

    Lead us not into temptation to put down the Gen V criticisms about HP,
    but deliver us from the evil of not embracing the future for the Viper.
    (And thank SRT for helping keep the dream alive for all Viper owners & VCA members especially...)

    For thine is heartbeat of SRT and may the Viper reign in glory forever & ever.



  11. #41
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by SylvanSRT View Post
    dont mean to correct

    400-->450-->460(smooth tubes on gts-r(gt1 replicas)-->505-->510(new rating system same engine)-->600-->640.........sorry just playing around but true
    You missed one. The Gen 1.5 RT/10's in 1996 had 415hp.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    you are correct i knew i was forgetting a step along way......we could also add in the VOI cars that got the Arrow Racing package installed(hp unknown)

  13. #43

    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Lol the fact that the word Mustang even made it into this thread makes me smile...

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post


    Not to stereotype, but the guys who generally whine about "not enough" horsepower on paper are the guys who wreck their bone stock Gen 2's in a parking lot because they can't handle the torque.
    lol .........

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post
    ZOMG! A supercharged 3800 lb brick has a magazine rating of 10 more flywheel hp! The GEN 5 is a total POS! I won't even buy one now because some Ford guy has a bigger advertised hp rating than my Viper.

    What a bunch of pointless whining. Did anyone stop to think that maybe the 640 number is underrated....on purpose...at least for the time being? The Gen IV is rated at 600 hp, but they dyno around 545-550 rwhp bone stock. That 600 hp number was underrated. I have no reason to believe the 640 number isn't underrated as well. Add to that the fact that the car dropped 100 lbs, got better gearing, better tires, better brakes, and better suspension and you have to be kidding yourself if you think that a Mustang is going to be any competition...other than on paper.

    Not to stereotype, but the guys who generally whine about "not enough" horsepower on paper are the guys who wreck their bone stock Gen 2's in a parking lot because they can't handle the torque. I heard the same bitching when the Z06 came out at 505 hp....from guys who were already scared to death of their stock Gen 3's. They just wanted paper bragging rights.

    If the sole reason you don't buy a Gen 5 is because of its underrated flywheel hp numbers (setting aside the killer interior, suspension, design, etc, etc) then there is no hope for you.

    The Gen 5 is going to be the best Viper ever built by all standards. EVERYTHING about that car is going to better than EVERYTHING about the past generations (other than some opinions on looks, but that's totally subjective). I think when you guys see actual road and track tests of this car up against the Mudstain and the Slomaro, you'll change your tune. Hopefully, a couple of well written magazine articles and ET's can make some of the bench racers feel better about the Viper again.

    Signed,
    I have 946 rwhp/909 tq on pump gas and I'd sell my car in a heartbeat for a lowly 640 hp Gen 5.
    Ok guys !!

    Look at these stats on 0-60 times for the mustang your all cooked up about and its HP rating. First of all you can see on teh chart the 2011 gt500 shelby does the same numbers as the 1996 GTS does. Hp rating for that car is 550HP and 510Trq. 96 GTS is 450HP and 490 Trq. Yet the same quarter and 0-60 times. Now take the Gen III cars with 505 Hp and less Hp again that that Mustang, and you get numbers beating that 550 Hp car. Numbers mean nothing. It is what is put to the ground. The 2010 ACR with 38 less Hp and 40 less trq than the ZR1 put out better numbers and Nurburing numbers they still cant beat.

    With the new SRT GTS, the new mUstang with its 650 Hp will be eaten alive by this Viper if history tells the tale. If you do the equations , the Gen 4 cars and even the Gen 3 cars will keep up and maybe take the 2013 Shelby. The Nwe 2013 will destroy it in all aspects. Wait and see. Then all the mustang guys will ho hum. Where were they in Nurburing?...where are tehy in the 24 lemans...nowhere!!..They dont belong there. They can't compete there. Even with all that HP they supposidly produce.

    Proof is in the pudding and, those guys never stood or stand a chance once again. The ZR-1 will also be looking at the LED taillights of the New SRT. They wre with 38 more Hp and will once again with less.

    Here is the link to the 0-60 and quarter times of the mustang and which ever car you want to look up


    http://www.zeroto60times.com/Ford-0-60-mph-Times.html

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Lets keep in mind the 600FT pounds of torque!!!!! That is what drives HP!!!!! None of us have had a chance to drive this beast. I am sure that this thing will dance all over the mustang! I haven't heard anything about the vert? chances are that wont come out til 2014.

    Remember that the shoes in the back are wider as well and the suspension has been totally reworked. This all equals faster and safer at high speeds!!!

  17. #47
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by SBMIANO View Post
    Lets keep in mind the 600FT pounds of torque!!!!! That is what drives HP!!!!! None of us have had a chance to drive this beast. I am sure that this thing will dance all over the mustang! I haven't heard anything about the vert? chances are that wont come out til 2014.

    Remember that the shoes in the back are wider as well and the suspension has been totally reworked. This all equals faster and safer at high speeds!!!
    Torque, baby, torque... That's why the old Buick GSX's of the late 60's and early 70's beat the crap out of most cars (if not all stock cars) in the 1/4 mile. Torque!

  18. #48

    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    I remember when 450hp from the factory was a BIG deal! lol...

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    you mean like a 426 Hemi or a 427 Sideoiler or 427Cammer, or the Boss 429........

  20. #50
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by SylvanSRT View Post
    you mean like a 426 Hemi or a 427 Sideoiler or 427Cammer, or the Boss 429........
    Yes, that is correct. I could be wrong and I don't want this to start some kind of argument, but I do believe that some proclaimed the 70 GSX king of the 1/4 mile in its era. Everyone had opinions on this, but I have read more than once that this was true and I remember because I was surprised. This is total stock off the showroom--no mods. Of course, it could not beat a Superbird around an oval track or a AAR Cuda on a curvy road track, but in the 1/4th mile I do believe it was king--ugly as it was. It was all about torque and that thing had it.
    Last edited by georgethedog; 04-11-2012 at 05:13 PM.

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    On a side note, the 440 6-pack normally beat the Hemi... Especially in a stripped down basic Road Runner.

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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    not trying to argue either just pointing out that big hp was available in '65 in the Cobra, and some of the other engines i mentioned also. I also have heard more than a few times that a well tuned 440 that was well tuned would take a Hemi. The Chevy 427's also did well in various guise including the ZL1 and the ZL2 454.

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Whether or not I am right about the old stuff, what proves out is BIG torque matters a lot!!! Joe Blow on the street discounts torque and is more excited about HP, but torque is what gets that thing going... The Gen 5 is a torque monster and I love that fact!!!

  24. #54
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    F it! I'm going bck to my roots. Squabbling over 10hp? Makes me want out of the car hobby altogether. Glad it's fishing season


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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Funny all the comments that the Viper will be "conservative" in the hp, but nobody said the same about the Mustang.

    The mere fact that the two are mentioned in the same sentence, on this very website, says volumes. Even if the Mustang does not
    work all that well (to be proved), the marketing has been successful.

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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Over the years I have met several SRT engineers. I can say I call a couple of them friends. There is only one thing they care about and that is lap times. Most, if not all of them, are track rats themselves. They are less hung up about numbers than we are as long as the car will beat the heck out of the competition on the track. Unlike other manufacturers of so called high performance cars, SRT actually tests their cars extensively on the track and in a wind tunnel. They expect the owners of their cars will take them to the track and they want there to be "no-excuses" when it comes to performance. I know for a fact that they adjusted certain aspects of the new car because they found that there were things that hurt track performance. They tested the car on the track in 100 degree weather to make sure that if would kick butt even at high temps. Tests like this translate into adjustments to engine cooling, brake cooling, and even front end design. The Gen 5's grill was modified to improve cooling as a result.

    Also as stated in other posts the 13 Shelby, the ZR1, and others rely on forced induction to achieve their big numbers. Anyone that has driven even the best engineered car with forced induction knows that sooner or later the car heat soaks and power drops off. I had an 06 Viper with a Paxton and while it was a beast on the track it did eventually heat soak and lose noticable power. Lastly I too would say that we should pay attention to the word "preliminary" as it relates to HP. Why should SRT tip their hand when Chevy is working on the new Vette? Might as well give them a lower target to shoot for and then when the Gen 5 once again kicks their butt at the Ring, Chevy will be sitting there wondering what happened.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Quote Originally Posted by johniew398 View Post
    Yes, the ZR1 is heavier.

    2013 SRT Viper
    3,200 lb (1,500 kg) (base)
    3,277 lb (1,486 kg) (GTS)

    2012 Corvette ZR1
    3,333 lb
    Uhhh... 3200lb = 1500kg... wrong... but with that math, the 1486kg should be 3170.13 lb.... not 3277... or am I missing something?

    Either way, lets assume that the KG is the accurate weights... here's what it should be listed at:

    1500KG - 3306LBS
    1486KG - 3276LBS

    Which makes sense... so I think they (or you) have the base viper's LB's wrong.

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Autoweek says the following about the 1st production Gen 5 that will be auctioned at Barrett Jackson.


    Bids for the SRT Viper are expected to start at six figures. It's the first production Viper to roll off the line, so collectors will take notice. It's also the fastest Viper ever built, with an 8.4-liter V10 making 660 hp.


    Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...#ixzz1rx0ezvLv

  29. #59
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Do you actually believe SRT would deliberately underate it by 20hp?
    Not likely.

  30. #60
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    Default Re: Oh for god sakes

    Think the Viper will be fast enough for me, so I have no argument here, and appreciate what SRT has done.

    On problem I always have with Mustangs is that the Kids will buy a 6 Cyl model, and then put all the GT trim on it, slap on a phony 2nd exhaust and drive around their hood thinking they are pulling something over on the stupid people that spent all the money on the real deal.

    Additionally, Mustangs dealers initially put huge premiums on their latest hero cars, and then when the next year's model comes up, the offer jack for trade in. Every body brags about bang for the buck with list prices, but rarely mention they paid $10,000 additional dealer markup when they begged the dealer to sell them their latest Bad Boy.

    Never get this same feeling about Vipers. Each model seems to garner it's own loyal following. They seem pretty happy with the Viper in their garage. They are happy that a more developed model is available when they desire to trade up, but few people in the ViperNation look down on previous Generations because they produce less HP.

    Hope this "mine is better than yours" attitude goes away quickly. Next weekend I will be traveling the Backroads of San Diego with +20 plus Vipers. Everybody will be enjoying the spirited drive, and the couple extra tenths that one Viper has over the other will not be an issue. The Viper Bond is strong. We enjoy the comaradrie with each other. We seem to get lots of respect from mustang owners.
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