Monday we find out who is faster at Laguna Seca, ZR1 or Gen V

[bluestreak]

Don't take anything for granted, remember the ZR-1 improved it's ring time from 7:24 (or something like that) to 7:18 and we know it's technically faster than the Z07 version of the Z06 with the magnetic ride and sport cups on it. That car was only .5 behind the ACR. The first time set on the ZR1 as on the special PS2's. This time it's likely to be on cups like the Z07 was. There is a very good chance the ZR1 has eclipsed the ACR time. Not that it's faster, but Randy with MPSC on a ZR1 is going to be fast.

That being said, if the Gen V best the ACR's time and beats the ZR1 in the same swoop. Don't know if there could be better news for it!!!!!

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Don't take anything for granted, remember the ZR-1 improved it's ring time from 7:24 (or something like that) to 7:18 and we know it's technically faster than the Z07 version of the Z06 with the magnetic ride and sport cups on it. That car was only .5 behind the ACR. The first time set on the ZR1 as on the special PS2's. This time it's likely to be on cups like the Z07 was. There is a very good chance the ZR1 has eclipsed the ACR time. Not that it's faster, but Randy with MPSC on a ZR1 is going to be fast.

That being said, if the Gen V best the ACR's time and beats the ZR1 in the same swoop. Don't know if there could be better news for it!!!!!

Im not convinced that the new Viper is dialed in yet and the ZR1 keeps getting better times. It should be close but I think that with the new gears in the snake it might just edge out the Vette. The new snake needs more track time but I still wouldn't be too surprised if it just edged out the Vette.

 

[bluestreak]

I zoomed in on the picture on the motor trend site, almost certain those are sport cups, looks like the tread (hard to see) but more than that, lots of rubber stuck to them just like the MPSC I used to run. A ZR1 on MPSC has a very good chance of being ahead of the Winkler driven ACR with Randy driving it.

My vote hinges on the tires that are on the ZR1. MPSC are super fast.

 

[ringram]

Not to forget a new generation of Corvette is about to appear, so if the vette does come in second, its not likely to stay there very long when the performance models of the C7 hit the floor.
.. which if the Viper does not take this race would be a big downer on it, as newer vettes will further hammer it into the ground.

 

[madninjaskillz]

They should have raced both cars on the same tire.

 

[bluestreak]

Not to forget a new generation of Corvette is about to appear, so if the vette does come in second, its not likely to stay there very long when the performance models of the C7 hit the floor.
.. which if the Viper does not take this race would be a big downer on it, as newer vettes will further hammer it into the ground.

Yeah, but the base C7 will appear first with the Z06 a year after that and a ZR1 another year after that. Don't forget the C7 isn't going to add much if any hp so performance could be similar to C6. By the time a Z06 or ZR1 appear there will be a mean and nasty Gen V ACR roaming the planet.

They should have raced both cars on the same tire.

They are going to race them on factory spec tires. Seems like SRT chose Pirelli over Michelin this time around, but the Corsas and MPSC are very similar R-compound performance so there is no distinct advantage one way or the other. Now if it's a battle of tenths, then you may be able to make a slight argument.


My gut feeling is that MT would not gut punch SRT by downing the Viper before release with a big loss to a out of production rival. Which means the Viper won. But a ZR1 on MPSC is perfectly capable of beating the Z07 which means it likely would have beat the ACR too. But it also could have come up just short and the Gen V nipped the ACR by .2 seconds. There really is no telling.

If the Viper is slower than the ZR1 and the Z07, all hell will probably break loose. I think it will be a nail biter myself.

 

[madninjaskillz]

[/QUOTE]My gut feeling is that MT would not gut punch SRT by downing the Viper before release with a big loss to a out of production rival. Which means the Viper won. But a ZR1 on MPSC is perfectly capable of beating the Z07 which means it likely would have beat the ACR too. But it also could have come up just short and the Gen V nipped the ACR by .2 seconds. There really is no telling.

If the Viper is slower than the ZR1 and the Z07, all hell will probably break loose. I think it will be a nail biter myself.[/QUOTE]

I feel like I just listened to Vizzini from Princess Bride argue two sides against himself... so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me! lol But, I agree with many of your points. Now as to whether MT would shaft the Viper, pre release... not sure I agree with you there.

 

[v10enomous]

Win lose or draw I would still take the Viper over the ZR1. You don't see the Ferrari, Porsche and Lambo or the Chally, Mustang and Camaro guys jumping ship every time a competitor eclipses some benchmark and I just won't do that either. Go Viper

 

[Jack B]

What is diff between ZO6 & ZR1

 

[ViperSmith]

Win lose or draw I would still take the Viper over the ZR1. You don't see the Ferrari, Porsche and Lambo or the Chally, Mustang and Camaro guys jumping ship every time a competitor eclipses some benchmark and I just won't do that either. Go Viper

Just like when I was deciding on the Viper or something else.

My wife and I looked at the M5 and the ZR1. Her only comments were "They don't look like $100k cars"

When she saw the Viper "That is it"

While I hope it is faster than the ZR1, I am not going to go buy a Vet because it is (Not saying the Vet isn't a bad car, just not for me in the current incarnation)

Hell, I could have bought a turbo S if I wanted something I know will be fast. But again, not what I wanted.

 

[Bobpantax]

The 2012 ZR1 that ran the ring had aero. It ran the ring in 7:19.4. The ACR Viper ran the ring at 7:12.13. Based on that, I am going to change my view of what the outcome was. The new Viper has better stock, non aero kit enhanced aerodynamics than the Gen IV had for the track and allegedly handles a bit better. So since the ACR had a seven second better time at the ring and the Gen V coupe has better stock aerodynamics and handling than the non ACR Gen IV coupe, the ZR1s aero kit was probably not enough to allow it to prevail.

Finally a legitimate gun fight, out in the wild west.

I think the ZR1 is a good match for the Viper, this should be interesting. Similar HP, similar price. The Viper will likely prevail, but hey, I might be biased . I am curious what impact the ZR1's aero tidbits will have. Did the previous ZR1 that ran Laguna Seca have the same?

In any event, win or lose, I want this fight!

 

[Early93Viper]

As of now the Top ten times at track:

Car
Time
Top speed
Year
HP/Weight (kg)
Driver (if named)

1.
Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR
1:33.92
138
'08
600 / 1536
Chris Winkler

2.
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package
1:34.43
137
'11
512 / 1394

3.
McLaren MP4-12C
1:34.50
137
'10
600 / 1434
Randy Pobst

4.
Devon GTX
1:35.08
136
0
659 / 0

5.
Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4
1:35.40
136
'11
700 / 1720
Randy Pobst

6.
Porsche 911 GT2 RS
1:35.56
136
'10
620 / 1370
Johannes van Overbee

7.
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
1:35.80
135
'08
647 / 1530

8.
Ferrari 458 Italia
1:36.22
135
'09
570 / 1485
Randy Pobst

9.
Nissan GT-R
1:36.30
135
'12
550 / 1736
Randy Pobst

10.
Nissan GT-R
1:36.35
135
'11
530 / 1736

 

[Kratos]

As of now the Top ten times at track:

Car
Time
Top speed
Year
HP/Weight (kg)
Driver (if named)

1.
Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR
1:33.92
138
'08
600 / 1536
Chris Winkler

2.
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package
1:34.43
137
'11
512 / 1394

3.
McLaren MP4-12C
1:34.50
137
'10
600 / 1434
Randy Pobst

4.
Devon GTX
1:35.08
136
0
659 / 0

5.
Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4
1:35.40
136
'11
700 / 1720
Randy Pobst

6.
Porsche 911 GT2 RS
1:35.56
136
'10
620 / 1370
Johannes van Overbee

7.
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
1:35.80
135
'08
647 / 1530

8.
Ferrari 458 Italia
1:36.22
135
'09
570 / 1485
Randy Pobst

9.
Nissan GT-R
1:36.30
135
'12
550 / 1736
Randy Pobst

10.
Nissan GT-R
1:36.35
135
'11
530 / 1736

Wow....I'm new to the Viper world and I always loved the car, bu I had no idea it was so dominant. I knew it was a great car, but geesh, didn't know it was that great. Whooping exotics and domestics.....wow.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

May the BEST car win and no excuses about tires, drivers, lug nuts style, aero, weather or whatever.

 

[Boxer12]

Pobst knows how to use torque..the Viper will prevail by .5 sec

 

[Early93Viper]

Wow....I'm new to the Viper world and I always loved the car, bu I had no idea it was so dominant. I knew it was a great car, but geesh, didn't know it was that great. Whooping exotics and domestics.....wow.

It has always been the Ultimate Roadcourse machine.

The ACR is still at the top of almost every Roadcourse comparision test out there. (See the ring times, Car and driver's Lightning lap, etc.)
Here are some of the other cars it was faster than at Laguna:
http://www.motortrend.com/features/laguna_lap/

 

[SnakeBitten]

Is it more of a surprise and headline grabbing if the ZR1 beats the ACR's time?

Or is it more of a surprise and headline grabbing if the SRT beat the ACR's time?

I believe its more of a surprise and headline grabbing if the SRT beats the ACR's time hence I believe the SRT is the victor. Simple. No more overthinking it for me or I wont sleep.


Kratos go to this link and check out all the stateside tracks and see what the ACR has done on most of them. You can even see the Nurburgring time vs competitors if you wish. http://www.fastestlaps.com/raceways.html

 

[SnakeBitten]

Ok I cant help it. Remember the Viper had the second fastest time at VIR behind a race car Mossler? The ACR was over 2 seconds faster than the 08 ZR1 at VIR. Apparently they put those same Cup tires on a ZR1 and magically it picked up 5 sec to now go from -2 plus seconds to the ACR to being 3 sec faster than the ACR. If it truly was "only' just Cups added to the ZR1 then it may be possible for the ZR1 to beat the ACR at Laguna. The 5 sec improvement seems suspect to me though...Here is the link on Fastlaps. BTW it was Jim Mero that ran that time not a pro driver like Pobst.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway.html

 

[PDCjonny]

It'll never happen but I sure would like to see Pobst (or equally skilled and track familar driver) take another shot at the record
in a 2010 ACR. Surely they could trim more than .2 off a lap time that engineer Dick Winkles set would you not agree?

 

[bcmarly]

No need to be skeptical, it's been documented how the Michelin Pilot Cup Sports transformed all the Z cars. Remember, the previous tire of choice for the Z06 was a Good Year run flat tire and with the mpcs it is just about as fast as the ZR1 on some road courses and faster on others.

Ok I cant help it. Remember the Viper had the second fastest time at VIR behind a race car Mossler? The ACR was over 2 seconds faster than the 08 ZR1 at VIR. Apparently they put those same Cup tires on a ZR1 and magically it picked up 5 sec to now go from -2 plus seconds to the ACR to being 3 sec faster than the ACR. If it truly was "only' just Cups added to the ZR1 then it may be possible for the ZR1 to beat the ACR at Laguna. The 5 sec improvement seems suspect to me though...Here is the link on Fastlaps. BTW it was Jim Mero that ran that time not a pro driver like Pobst.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway.html

 

[mnc2886]

It'll never happen but I sure would like to see Pobst (or equally skilled and track familar driver) take another shot at the record
in a 2010 ACR. Surely they could trim more than .2 off a lap time that engineer Dick Winkles set would you not agree?

Would love to see it too, but SRT wouldn't ever do it. They need to keep marketing the new snake. I have a good feeling about the next ACR though. With all they have learned from the Gen IV and what they will learn from ALMS, it should be a beast.

On a side note, before this thread, I didn't know Winkles was the one who set that record. Pro or not, ACR or not, I'd like to give him props for that. I doubt I could do that good of a time in an ACR with Hoosiers.

 

[TrackAire]

Would love to see it too, but SRT wouldn't ever do it. They need to keep marketing the new snake. I have a good feeling about the next ACR though. With all they have learned from the Gen IV and what they will learn from ALMS, it should be a beast.

On a side note, before this thread, I didn't know Winkles was the one who set that record. Pro or not, ACR or not, I'd like to give him props for that. I doubt I could do that good of a time in an ACR with Hoosiers.

Not Winkles, Winkler.....two different SRT dudes.

 

[SnakeBitten]

No need to be skeptical, it's been documented how the Michelin Pilot Cup Sports transformed all the Z cars. Remember, the previous tire of choice for the Z06 was a Good Year run flat tire and with the mpcs it is just about as fast as the ZR1 on some road courses and faster on others.

Interesting. So how come on a 4 mile track like VIR the Cupped ZR1 is 3 secs faster than the ACR but on the Nurburgring a Cupped and Aero'd ZR1 couldnt come within 6 secs of the ACR's time? Different tracks of course but there is no way you going to have a crazy spread like that between these two. The Nurburgring is 13 miles long so the ZR1's advantage should have been double what it was on VIR if it was only Cups used at VIR. But what we see instead is that the Viper 2 sec advantage over the stock ZR1 run was doubled on the Ring which is what is to be expected. Longer the track the bigger the beat down.

It makes more sense to me that something was added besides the Cups and aero to be faster than an ACR by 3 secs. The ACR has superior down force and similar tires and power to a "stock" ZR1. It doesn't make logical sense hence my skepticism. Its easy to tweak a FI car just my humble opinion on that run at VIR by the ZR1. Why dont these results transalate the same on any other track?

I too would like to have seen them have the old 2010 ACR on hand for Randy to test as well. Sadly it wont happen.

 

[TrackAire]

For Laguna Seca I don't think aero is as big of a deal as it is at a bigger run like the Ring.

The one advantage I see that the Gen 5 has over the Gen 4 is better gearing. With the new 3.55 rear end and tighter transmission ratios, I can see the Gen 5 being easier to keep at its power peak (and hence quicker sprints between corners). The old 3.07's meant less shifting, but the car does not rev out as fast.

I just hope that both cars are on their respective R-Spec tires.

Cheers,
George

 

[DMan]

To me it's not how it does to the ZR1, it's how it does to the '10 ACR. If I wasn't getting a gen5, I'd be in the market for the last yr of the ACR, not a ZR1, hec when an ACR vert was up for sale just a little bit ago I almost changed all my plans to jump on that car, took real restraint, I'm hoping that restraint wasn't a mistake. I've looked at ZR1's a lot, perf wise it would make sense to own one but I just can't love the car, there was one with a few custom tweeks I did like, but it just doesn't make me chub up like a viper. If the gen5 can't "hang" with the 3 yr older ACR, then personally I would say that would disappoint me, esp on a road course.

 

[Kratos]

Thanks for the great links guys....

 

[viper GTS-R]

Interesting, a blue oval guy driving a bowtie and a mopar. Being that it's Motor Trend it's going to favor the Chevy.

--RS

 

[bluestreak]

Ok I cant help it. Remember the Viper had the second fastest time at VIR behind a race car Mossler? The ACR was over 2 seconds faster than the 08 ZR1 at VIR. Apparently they put those same Cup tires on a ZR1 and magically it picked up 5 sec to now go from -2 plus seconds to the ACR to being 3 sec faster than the ACR. If it truly was "only' just Cups added to the ZR1 then it may be possible for the ZR1 to beat the ACR at Laguna. The 5 sec improvement seems suspect to me though...Here is the link on Fastlaps. BTW it was Jim Mero that ran that time not a pro driver like Pobst.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway.html

It'll never happen but I sure would like to see Pobst (or equally skilled and track familar driver) take another shot at the record
in a 2010 ACR. Surely they could trim more than .2 off a lap time that engineer Dick Winkles set would you not agree?

Yes, Pobst would go faster. And it was Chris Winkler, who absolutely obliterated the One Lap of America in the ACR a few years back. He can drive, jut not like Randy.

No need to be skeptical, it's been documented how the Michelin Pilot Cup Sports transformed all the Z cars. Remember, the previous tire of choice for the Z06 was a Good Year run flat tire and with the mpcs it is just about as fast as the ZR1 on some road courses and faster on others.

Yes, true, but the ZR-1 has specially made PS2's that were pretty sticky. Even still not as sticky as real mpsc. Those tires are the real deal!!!

Interesting. So how come on a 4 mile track like VIR the Cupped ZR1 is 3 secs faster than the ACR but on the Nurburgring a Cupped and Aero'd ZR1 couldnt come within 6 secs of the ACR's time? Different tracks of course but there is no way you going to have a crazy spread like that between these two. The Nurburgring is 13 miles long so the ZR1's advantage should have been double what it was on VIR if it was only Cups used at VIR. But what we see instead is that the Viper 2 sec advantage over the stock ZR1 run was doubled on the Ring which is what is to be expected. Longer the track the bigger the beat down.

It makes more sense to me that something was added besides the Cups and aero to be faster than an ACR by 3 secs. The ACR has superior down force and similar tires and power to a "stock" ZR1. It doesn't make logical sense hence my skepticism. Its easy to tweak a FI car just my humble opinion on that run at VIR by the ZR1. Why dont these results transalate the same on any other track?

I too would like to have seen them have the old 2010 ACR on hand for Randy to test as well. Sadly it wont happen.

Easy, drivers. Jim Mero > lightning lap drivers hoping in 20 different cars in a day. If Randy had driven all of the lightning laps would be different, but Car and Drivers lineup of drivers isn't on the same planet, so any factory ringer could come in and set a great time. Don't worry about that, it comes down to driver disparity. The viper had an advantage at the Nurburgring, but not one worth 7 seconds. The ZR1 had a big advantage with a factory driver setting the time vs just pretty good mag drivers.

 

[bcmarly]

I think the biggest difference has to do with the driver, Jim Mero. He shaved off 5 seconds from the previous "best" time recorded by a ZR1 at VRI and in the process beat the ACR. He also eclipsed the previous time registered for a ZR1 at the Nurburgring. In order to come up with all the right answers we would have to analyze the road course and determine where on the course one car has an advantage over the other and see if that correlates to other courses; but I'm not comfortable with insinuating that one party cheated.

Interesting. So how come on a 4 mile track like VIR the Cupped ZR1 is 3 secs faster than the ACR but on the Nurburgring a Cupped and Aero'd ZR1 couldnt come within 6 secs of the ACR's time? Different tracks of course but there is no way you going to have a crazy spread like that between these two. The Nurburgring is 13 miles long so the ZR1's advantage should have been double what it was on VIR if it was only Cups used at VIR. But what we see instead is that the Viper 2 sec advantage over the stock ZR1 run was doubled on the Ring which is what is to be expected. Longer the track the bigger the beat down.

It makes more sense to me that something was added besides the Cups and aero to be faster than an ACR by 3 secs. The ACR has superior down force and similar tires and power to a "stock" ZR1. It doesn't make logical sense hence my skepticism. Its easy to tweak a FI car just my humble opinion on that run at VIR by the ZR1. Why dont these results transalate the same on any other track?

I too would like to have seen them have the old 2010 ACR on hand for Randy to test as well. Sadly it wont happen.

 

[ferraritoviper]

Interesting to see what the corvette forum is saying:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-...a-seca-on-motor-trend-now.html#post1582564303

Check out the post in the above mentioned vette forum thread, by Captn Van with various pics...is that vette Stryker red??????