I HATE LED LIGHTS...designers, please stop the insanity!!

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Actually, White LED's are just that: WHITE light. They do not have a particular wavelength. White LED's are rated in color temperature. Lower is yellow, and higher is blue, and eventually purple heading towards black-light.

I personally strongly disagree. LED's have it all over incandescent lighting in every imaginable way. They are the future, and everyone may as well get used to that fact.
 

latamud

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You know what I really hate? Those damn pneumatic tires! So a guy started using them in 1887 for some bicycle tire and look what happened: Every car these days has them. Can't we think of some better way, like switching back to iron bands on wooden-spoked wheels?

Lol, yah, and what about fuel injection, bring back the carburetor.
 

Zentenk

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This is what I am referring to, being ugly and of no real benefit. So bringing up old wheels or CRT television makes no sense. This is some poor ass attempt at decoration, it looks horrible. Some designer was trying to find his seat in a movie theater and thought the light stripping on the ground was so cool looking and would look amazing in a headlight assembly. I'm happy for you if you like illuminated eye liner, congratulations it is so hip and cool. Why not add a red strip in the air intake and make it slide back and forth Michael.
 

Makara

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Actually, White LED's are just that: WHITE light. They do not have a particular wavelength. White LED's are rated in color temperature. Lower is yellow, and higher is blue, and eventually purple heading towards black-light.

I personally strongly disagree. LED's have it all over incandescent lighting in every imaginable way. They are the future, and everyone may as well get used to that fact.

While I agree with you that LEDs are a superior technology and I have moved a lot of my lights over to them, be it for my fish tanks or interior lighting which I can control the color all by remote, wavelength is color.

http://juliank.com/english/aura-body/files-aura/Human Energy Filed/color_wavelength_frequency.png

You can describe a light's color by both wavelength or color temperature in Kelvin. While some people may say bluer or more yellow, someone else could say that is 3500k or 6200k while someone else may use wavelength in nm.
 

KNG SNKE

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Actually, White LED's are just that: WHITE light. They do not have a particular wavelength. White LED's are rated in color temperature. Lower is yellow, and higher is blue, and eventually purple heading towards black-light.

I personally strongly disagree. LED's have it all over incandescent lighting in every imaginable way. They are the future, and everyone may as well get used to that fact.

They absolutely are the future and you are 100% right however the designs that companies are putting into their headlights are faddish and useless. Even using a strand of led's as blinkers in the Viper is useless. A single LED in replacement of the light bulb would be equally sufficient. It's not some special design to arrange the led's in a way to surround the headlight, its been done, over and over, and over again.

And for the person referring going back to CRT's, the issue is not that we want to go back in technology, its that the technology is being used in a faddish/kiddish way. It has been completely played out and overdone. The time when I started driving the craze was putting headlights in the car to mimic the halos from a BMW and I got tired of seeing that mess too. I personally own a Hybrid Sonata which has that stupid LED strand in the headlight and I am not a fan of it.

And yes different colors have different wavelengths, they do have a particular wavelength. ROYGBIV. Your confusing Kelvin ratings with visible light wavelengths. Kelvin ratings are the temperature the gas burns to produce the particular wavelength.


Obnoxious
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...ndsp=58&ved=1t:429,r:68,s:0,i:362&tx=89&ty=49
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...68&start=48&ndsp=58&ved=1t:429,r:74,s:0,i:380
http://www.google.com/imgres?start=...sp=59&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:100,i:49&tx=126&ty=37
 

Jack B

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An insight from a EE in the electrical power field. You will not see anything but led lighting in ten years. The main problem with them is that they run extremely hot. The only reason they are not more common is that we have not mastered the technique required to heat sink the actual emitter. Your high output led light fixtures are a mass of finned heat sinks. The lower (common) wattage led bulbs are easy.
 

KNG SNKE

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An insight from a EE in the electrical power field. You will not see anything but led lighting in ten years. The main problem with them is that they run extremely hot. The only reason they are not more common is that we have not mastered the technique required to heat sink the actual emitter. Your high output led light fixtures are a mass of finned heat sinks. The lower (common) wattage led bulbs are easy.

Absolutely. They have recently released headlight main bulbs in led form, single led output. These are direct replacements for 9006, 9005 etc so we will see how they hold up with the heat. I am not sure how reliable they will be though. Heat is the major limitation as Jack said.
 

AZTVR

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I agree that I do not like the Viper designers stepping up and saying "me too!" with the LED Headlight eye liner look; but, they are trying to serve a wider audience. Not so much the older macho-look crowd any more. But like someone said, there are lots of people that like the copy cat trend. People saw the Audi and now want their car to look as pretty as an Audi. Fortunately they didn't go so far as to put lambo doors on the new Viper. Since the LEDs can be turned off, it wouldn't affect my purchase decision. The new car looks great and is perfectly styled as far as I am concerned.

There are probably lots of guys posting here that wear diamond ear studs in their ears because it makes them look like their favorite celebrity or they think that it makes hot babes think that they are just like those celebrity hunks that they'd like to be with. Its not for me; but, as long as I don't have to wear them, I won't tell them that it looks, uh, well, you know.

Now, if people start retrofitting LED eye liners into Gen 2 Vipers, or put LED running light strips across their aero wings, I am going to start an anti-LED petition !!!!
 
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Sorry, got to call you on this. You just said in the other thread that you are favoring a C7 over a Viper. To each his own, that's valid.

If you think the LEDs are ricer, the C7 has them too. To me, the C7 has some nice features but I also see GT-R influence and other ricer styling cues. You don't?

Yes, they are rice rice baby on the C7 too. LEDs are overdone. That is all that needs to be said.
 

challengerta

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Yes, they are rice rice baby on the C7 to. LEDs are overdone. That is all that needs to be said.

I agree, and I realize they're here to stay. How about trying to make the taillamps (I'm thinking of the '11 Charger) look more like regular lamps. The rear of that car is way too bright, makes me think the brake lamps are always on. Go with the advantages of the lamp, not the gimmicky look!
 

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While I agree with you that LEDs are a superior technology and I have moved a lot of my lights over to them, be it for my fish tanks or interior lighting which I can control the color all by remote, wavelength is color.

http://juliank.com/english/aura-body/files-aura/Human Energy Filed/color_wavelength_frequency.png

You can describe a light's color by both wavelength or color temperature in Kelvin. While some people may say bluer or more yellow, someone else could say that is 3500k or 6200k while someone else may use wavelength in nm.


Beeeeeeeep. Try again. ;)

WHITE LIGHT does not have a particular wavelength because it is a mixture of many different wavelengths. The proportion of those wavelengths to each other are what causes us to perceive difference "colors" of white light, hence why it is correctly defined by color temperature and not a particular wavelength. Non-White LED's output a non-coherent monochromatic wavelength [or very close to it], while lasers output coherent monochromatic wavelengths [in most cases].

You can use a simple prism to show exactly what I mean, as it will break down white light into its component wavelengths. What you say only applies to monochromatic light sources, be it LED, LASER, or filtered white light sources.
 

Solid Red 98

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Welcome to the 21st century. While I am not really sold on their visual appeal, I do believe they are effective safety devices. This is the next generation automotive norm like the advent of tail lights themselves, developing increasing presence from year to year since their addition to the automobile. Seeing a car without led's will make it very easy to identify an 'old' car. I can remember when round headlights were the standard, now my 90's style lenses on my Gen 2 help to date the design. On and on it goes...
 

05Commemorative

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Welcome to the 21st century. While I am not really sold on their visual appeal, I do believe they are effective safety devices. This is the next generation automotive norm like the advent of tail lights themselves, developing increasing presence from year to year since their addition to the automobile. Seeing a car without led's will make it very easy to identify an 'old' car. I can remember when round headlights were the standard, now my 90's style lenses on my Gen 2 help to date the design. On and on it goes...

So very true. I personally like the looks, but even if I did not, I would know I was purchasing a car "out of date" without them. For example, I would not buy a NEW car today without LED tail lights, HID headlights and LED front signature lights because I my as well tell the world I paid money for a new car that is out of date. Just like I would never buy a NEW car that did not have bluetooth support and navigation. These are the new norms (for high-end cars) and really no different than the new norms of 10yrs ago (fuel injection, ABS, HID's, brembo brakes, etc).

I guess you could argue all the other items had functional value, but design value and recognition is also key. To this day, you can spot an Audi on the road at night from the front or rear immediately. this will be a big part of the brand recognitions. I think the GenV did a great job in tail in this regard and also believe the front will do the same.

Lastly, like all other things, the cheaper cars that introduce this will have cheaper looking designs. Just look at the VW implementations vs the Audi 's. No different than how they are cheaper in all other aspects of design as well.
 

Dom426h

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I personally strongly disagree. LED's have it all over incandescent lighting in every imaginable way. They are the future, and everyone may as well get used to that fact.

This is what I am referring to, being ugly and of no real benefit. So bringing up old wheels or CRT television makes no sense. This is some poor ass attempt at decoration, it looks horrible. Some designer was trying to find his seat in a movie theater and thought the light stripping on the ground was so cool looking and would look amazing in a headlight assembly. I'm happy for you if you like illuminated eye liner, congratulations it is so hip and cool. Why not add a red strip in the air intake and make it slide back and forth Michael.

Looking at these two comments (+1 on them Both) it is apparent that two different topics are being disscused (and possibly confused) in this thread.

Im pretty sure by the OP's comments that started this thread that he was reffering to the Application of LEDs used in Styling, Rather than the comparison of using one technology over another for a standard item like a turn signal.
 

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Looking at these two comments (+1 on them Both) it is apparent that two different topics are being disscused (and possibly confused) in this thread.

Im pretty sure by the OP's comments that started this thread that he was reffering to the Application of LEDs used in Styling, Rather than the comparison of using one technology over another for a standard item like a turn signal.

I doubt you'd see them at all in these cars if states weren't mandating daytime running lights. This seems like a work around to legislation.

Would you rather have your headlights on 24/7 or rather have "stylish" LEDs?

To me, the answer is obvious. I don't think this is SRT doing it because it is "cool." They are doing it due to regulations and trying to still put out a **** car.
 

Dom426h

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Good point about the DRL mandate Smith.
I dont know the details of this though. Could someone elaborate? I thought DRL's were fed required a long time ago but when i just purchased a 2011 Mazda for my wife it didn't have DRL's so i scratched my head.:dunno:

It it an assumption that stylish LED's can be a substitute for DRL's with regards to regulation? or do you know this for a fact?
 

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I don't believe they are a fed requirement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytime_running_lamp#United_States - and I may have been incorrect, they don't seem to be required (from what I can tell) in in any state at all times (Though, could be wrong - but many do for even wipers on). Canadians require them, which is possibly why they exist (Easier to design once?) in their current form.

Purely pulling it out of my posterior as a work around - but if I had to guess, I'd put money on it.
 

kdaviper

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Look at it this way: you can choose to design a head lamp with a HID projector for the main lighting element and either use a power-hungry, heavy, heat-emitting halogen which will only be able to be configured spatially inside the lamp, or use a number of small, efficient LEDs to perform the same role while offering more flexibility as far as design and placement. Guess which designers and enginners tend to choose these days?
 

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Look at it this way: you can choose to design a head lamp with a HID projector for the main lighting element and either use a power-hungry, heavy, heat-emitting halogen which will only be able to be configured spatially inside the lamp, or use a number of small, efficient LEDs to perform the same role while offering more flexibility as far as design and placement. Guess which designers and enginners tend to choose these days?

Weird how many viper owners replace oem bulbs with non faddish led bulbs and still accomplish the same task without forming "eye brows" , "alphabet letters", "angel eyes" or anything of that matter. The problem is they are too damn flexible and the fine line between functionality and efficiency is crossed. Sorry, your running lights or blinker don't need to be 20 little bulbs surrounding the exterior trim of each headlight. Creativity is lacking but that has already been said about the new Viper and Vette. And you are right, it is what engineers are doing these days due to lack of creativity. Lets rip off another car companies successful idea because the people are too stupid to notice we are not original.
 
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TrackAire

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Look at it this way: you can choose to design a head lamp with a HID projector for the main lighting element and either use a power-hungry, heavy, heat-emitting halogen which will only be able to be configured spatially inside the lamp, or use a number of small, efficient LEDs to perform the same role while offering more flexibility as far as design and placement. Guess which designers and enginners tend to choose these days?

I don't think you'll see LED's being used anytime soon as a high beam source except in uber high end vehicles, and then with rear facing LED's that reflect off the back of the reflectors or some techno shield covering the LED. LED's are just too offensive and irratating when used uncovered if they actually have enough lumens to light up the road.

I was wrong about a winning Baja Truck not using LEDs.....the Monster Energy Trophy truck was sponsored by Rigid Industries who make very nice aftermarket LED lights. The truck had 304 individual LED's in multiple light bars, pods, etc. Total cost of these LED's is approximately $6500.00. You will be shocked when you add up all the amps needed to run a system like this (about 75 amps). I'm guessing you could run 10 HID off road lights at 30 amps and have double the lumens. And trust me, those are not off the shelf LED's you and I buy at the local truck accessory outlet. Baja race trucks are so punishing, that nearly all units are custom made. Back in the late 1990's when Ivan Stewart was winning all the Baja races, Hella was the lighting sponsor. The Toyota team contacted my company wanting us to build them some sort of a clear cover to protect the lens from breakage on the then new HID Hella 4000 lights (about $1600.00 a pair then). In talking with the team and about the lights, it came out that the off the shelf lights would fall apart very quickly during the races and every light was custom made with additional support, etc to keep them intact.

I'm not adverse to LED "lighting" if it is superior to halogens, HID's etc. What I do not agree with is the stupid strips of LED's that detract from the lines of the car and don't put out usable light. As I said at the start, I would never disagree with someone that likes them, but "lighting" and "style" are two different things in my mind. That boomerang LED shaped crap in the lower bucket of the new C7 looks so out of place, I just can't imagine what there were trying to achieve with that look.

When it comes to lighting, correctly designed reflectors, etc are much more important than the lighting source. My wifes 2008 Sequoia had fantastic lighting from halogens. Her 2011 Mercedes ML has great lighting from HID's. We rented a Ford Explorer last week while on vacation and it's projector style lights ****....I mean bad. We also rented a Maserati Gran Turismo and it had good lighting....but not as good as the Mercedes. I'm sure as technology progresses, LED's will get better and better. But at what level is the watts per lumen and cost per lumen going to outweigh the advantages when we use the word LED's when referring to actual lighting for seeing down the road? As far as I can tell, it's hard to beat HID's for both watts per lumen and cost per lumen.

Cheers,
George
 

Jack B

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To go one step further the concept of "irritating" is just common common sense, with a direct viewable light source (no shielding), the LED generates all the lumens over a small volume, therefore, when compared to the same output of a conventional bulb, the LED appears brighter or more "irritating" than the conventional bulb which is much larger. If you were to put a lens over the fixture that would diffuse the light source you could not tell it was an LED source

LEDs are not limited to a certain wavelength that is ******* the human eye. They can have the same wavelength as a halogen light, actinic, incandescent, daylight, red, green, what ever is asked for, LEDs can just about do it. Bluer lights are used more frequently now because they make it easier to see details as they are in a bit more of a natural color temperature that we are used to, This has nothing to do with LED technology, it is a conscious decision by engineers.
 

kdaviper

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Look at it this way: you can choose to design a head lamp with a HID projector for the main lighting element and either use a power-hungry, heavy, heat-emitting halogen which will only be able to be configured spatially inside the lamp, or use a number of small, efficient LEDs to perform the same role while offering more flexibility as far as design and placement. Guess which designers and enginners tend to choose these days?

Weird how many viper owners replace oem bulbs with non faddish led bulbs and still accomplish the same task without forming "eye brows" , "alphabet letters", "angel eyes" or anything of that matter. The problem is they are too damn flexible and the fine line between functionality and efficiency is crossed. Sorry, your running lights or blinker don't need to be 20 little bulbs surrounding the exterior trim of each headlight. Creativity is lacking but that has already been said about the new Viper and Vette. And you are right, it is what engineers are doing these days due to lack of creativity. Lets rip off another car companies successful idea because the people are too stupid to notice we are not original.

Ah so the engineers at SRT are just lazy idiots who have no idea what they're doing. Why then don't you show us a portfolio of production vehicles you helped engineer/design?
 

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Ah so the engineers at SRT are just lazy idiots who have no idea what they're doing. Why then don't you show us a portfolio of production vehicles you helped engineer/design?

Would you like to pay for my time? Or would you like me to do what the rest did and smash 2 or more cars together and call it a day. Or better yet would you like to continue to be a smart ass and put words in my mouth? Did I call them lazy, no. Did I say creativity was lacking, absolutely. I'm also guessing comments on creativity hit a sore spot with you, glad were free to have opinions. Its cool though, since your such an avid led supporter please go throw as many leds in your headlights as possible and call it cool. I do think the letter "Q" has not been done yet, there's your originality. I know your heart is broken that the dolphin design was taken but I'm sure you could talk a painter into putting an elephant or a leopard on your hood. Lol.
 

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