Correct polisher and technique to ;polish sharp and curvy areas

slitherv10

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Hey Junkman,

i absolutely love your explanations and step by step approach to all your techniques regarding detailing our cars and keeping them looking tip top shape.

I have been using some of your ways of applying polish and wax etc by hand....only problem I have been having is getting the paint to shine as well as a polisher and its different applicators can do.

Question is,

My car has swirls even though I hand polish and wax it every year. I would like to use a good machine but am unsure about how to poilsh curvy areas and sharp corners and or hard to reach places wth a machine.
How do i get the swirls out and what machine and technique using what machine should I approach this with
 

Junkman2008

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How in the world did you miss THIS THREAD? Your answers are in those 2 hours worth of videos so plan your time accordingly. By the way, you don't polish edges. You can't see swirls on an edge. Any area that can't be reach with a machine is polished by hand. There are VERY few areas like that on any car.
 

slysnake

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My car has swirls even though I hand polish and wax it every year
I have the same experience. I polish my car but I am unable to get all the swirls out. I have only gone as far as the orange Adams pad however and I think I need to start with the more agressive one. Plus, I am thinking of moving up from the PC because after using it several times i think I would like a more agressive machine.
 

Junkman2008

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I have the same experience. I polish my car but I am unable to get all the swirls out. I have only gone as far as the orange Adams pad however and I think I need to start with the more agressive one. Plus, I am thinking of moving up from the PC because after using it several times i think I would like a more agressive machine.


You remind me of the guy who wants to learn how to play golf so he goes out and buys some golf clubs from Walmart. He heads to the golf course with no training and after 18 holes on a par 70 course, he shoots a 140. After shooting a 141 and 150 over the next 2 visits to the same course, he comes to the conclusion that Walmart golf clubs **** so he gives them to Tiger Woods. Tiger takes those clubs and goes on to shoot a 59 on the same course that day.

So how in the hell can Tiger Shoot so well with the same clubs that you **** at? The same exact way that I get EXCELLENT results with the same detailing equipment that you are using. Right now, you are to buffing on paint what Charles Barkley is to golf. Don't blame the equipment, blame your technique. That's what I prove in the videos that I linked to earlier in this thread. YOU need to watch them so that you can learn how NOT to look like Charles Barkley.

Because that brutha' is brutal to watch on the links...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnj6GHx1YjA
 

slysnake

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I'm just stating my experience. I don't think there is any reason to throw insults at me.

I have watched your videos, repeatedly. And I have practiced what you preach. Even in the above video you have removed the swirl marks but there are still scratches left. That is similar to the result I have gotten. So do I need a more agressive pad to get those left over scratches? Wet sand as you did in one of your vids on a Lambo? (Don't think I will attempt that)

There are times that the PC will not spin, even with no pressure applied. It just vibrates. Doesn't it need to spin to be effective? So I wonder why it doesn't spin. Yes, I start at 3 to spread the polish around. Yes, I move the setting up. So what do you think, too much polish on the pad, not enough?

Also, after one pass a small ammount of dried polish will sometimes spray off the pad. Is that normal? Yes, I use the detail spray to prime the pad. Yes, it's a clean fresh pad. Yes, I'm in the shade. Yes, I spray again to get more polish out as you recommend in your videos.
 
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ninjakris

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This is just my guess... You are using too much polish. It's pretty amazing how far a little polish goes. My personal technique is once the polis starts to dry, give a quick spray of detail spray on the paint. After working the machine for a while, wipe everything off and take a look. When junkman shows only pea size portions in his videos, it's really all you need.

I'm sure junkman will chime in and I'm sure he wasn't trying to personally attack you. I'm just an amateur myself and still learning.
 

slysnake

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This is just my guess... You are using too much polish.
Thanks for the advice, I'll try to use less. I'm following the Videos, but as Junkman says, temp and humidity change the way the polish acts. So I think your right, I need to experimit with less and see how that works.

My personal technique is once the polis starts to dry, give a quick spray of detail spray on the paint.
Hmmm.... I've always sprayed it on the pad. This is an interesting idea to spray it on the paint instead. Thanks again! :)
 

Junkman2008

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I'm just stating my experience. I don't think there is any reason to throw insults at me.

Okay, two things here. First I was not insulting you. I was treating you like a man. If you go back through all the threads where I answer questions, you'll notice that I treat everyone here like a man. I am a Marine. It is in my blood. So thicken up that skin somewhat and don't take anything that I say as an insult. Call it tough love or bringing the beef but never consider anything I say an insult.

As my drill instructor once said, if I wanted to insult you, trust me... you'd know it. :D

I have watched your videos, repeatedly. And I have practiced what you preach. Even in the above video you have removed the swirl marks but there are still scratches left.

You lost me on that video. That is Charles Barkley swinging a golf club. What video are you referring?

That is similar to the result I have gotten. So do I need a more agressive pad to get those left over scratches? Wet sand as you did in one of your vids on a Lambo? (Don't think I will attempt that)

Without seeing your paint, standing next to you and watching what you are doing, I can't say exactly what you need. But by reading some of your comments, I can clearly see that you are NOT following the instructions in my videos to the letter. For one, it sounds like you are working outdoors. It DOESN'T MATTER that you are in the shade because the surface of your car is TOO HOT. That's 50% of the issue you are having. The other issue is exactly what I said before, your technique *****. This is typical of people who try and do this the first time. That's not an insults, that's just putting bluntly. I like being blunt. It helps me get my point across.

Now here's what I want you to do. Watch this video posted by forum member KCOBean. He posted this video so that I could see exactly what he was doing and so that I could critique what I saw. Then, read my responses below the video. You will see everything he did right and wrong and then you can read my responses below the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir1VocZj5UU

Now for my responses:

Okay, first off, outstanding video! You really showed me a lot and I got a very good look at exactly what you are doing. First, let's address what you are doing incorrectly.

1. You're using way too much product!!! Allow me explain the the technical reason why using too much product renders your technique ineffective.

The pad that you use has holes or "pores" in it. The bigger the pores, the more cut the pad has. This is similar to those facial exfoliating sponges that women use to deep clean their faces. By using too much product, you totally clog up the pores in the pad and render it useless! You could be using the most aggressive polish known to detailing but if the pad has no cut, you're just exercising! You should either be using a very thin bead around the pad or 3 pea-sized drops as I do in my videos. Less is more with this stuff. As they say in medicine, just because 1X is good doesn't make 2X better.

2. Always start with a clean pad. I didn't understand if you had used that pad earlier in the day or the day before but if that pad had sat overnight with product in it, you definitely want it cleaned before you start using it.

3. Crank the speed up on that polisher! You are using one of the safest polishers on the market. You are NOT going to hurt anything as long as you don't get crazy with it and the polishes you use. Work on a speed setting of 5. You can spread the polish around within the area that you are about to work on a setting of 1 but other than that, the setting of 1 is totally useless on that machine. When I was looking at the polish you were using, I couldn't understand why the paint wasn't finishing down as it should (according to you, the paint was dull looking and didn't "pop" like you thought it should). Now you know why. You were not allowing the polish to do the work that it can do by working it at such a low speed. Speed of 5, using 9-15 pounds of pressure. The pressure you use includes the weight of the polisher.

4. You are working WAY to large of an area! That fender should have been split up into 3 different sections. There is no way that you can work that large of an area with that polisher. You should only work a 1.5' - 2' area with each application of polish. Bring your work area down to those parameters.

5. You are working much too fast! You need to slow it WAY down. You are not allowing the polisher to do anything at that speed. The polisher needs time to correct the paint because of its limited abilities and the faster you work, the less work you allow the polisher to do. Sloooooow down! Watch how I work the polisher in this video. You need to go SLOWER than I'm going. Also notice how small of an area that I am working. That is how small of an area you need to work also.

6. You really need to consider using M105/M205. There's nothing wrong with the product you're using but it is a more advanced product which needs to be followed with something else. This is the problem with Meguiar's professional line. You can go in a few different directions with the stuff they make and that causes confusion among novice detailers. Also, some of their compounds are made just for the rotary and not the orbital. The M105/M205 combination has eliminated that confusion. One removes the paint damage and the other brings the shine back. This is just like Adam's Swirl & Haze Remover and Fine Machine Polish. Simplicity rules in novice land. I highly suggest you go that route if you want to use the Meguiar's line.

I would also suggest that you check out the Hex-Logic pads at Chemical Guys. Their orange pad may have more bite than the pad you're using. The pad you have appears to be an older design. If your back plate is a 5" plate, go with the 5.5" pads that Lake Country sells. All you need is the orange for M105 and the white for M205.

Okay, those are the major things that I see which need to change. One thing that I am not sure of are those towels you are using. I went to the site where you buy them and it looks like they sell some of the same "made in China" towels that you can buy over the counter. Those towels are horrible. You should have taken you son's suggestion and gotten a close up shot of the towels. When he said that, I was like, "Yes!" Then you shot his suggestion down and I wanted to bonk you over the head with that polisher. Tell him he did good. :rolaugh:

Zaino and Adam's both have some excellent microfiber towels. I would highly suggest you look at either the Zaino Borderless Blond towel or the Adam's Superplush White towel. Both are excellent as I said before.

One thing that I was happy to see was your overlapping sweep technique. Up and down, back and forth is exactly how it should be done. I also appreciate you being honest with your technique and showing me exactly what you were doing. That gives me the opportunity to direct you to a successful resolution to your problem. You provided plenty of information which is always the best route to go. Kudos to you on that.

If anyone else wants to make a video for me to critique, this should be the template that you follow. Again, kudos to you KC on a really good production. :2tu:

So as you can see, he learned a lot by making a video of what he was doing and now he is having major success compared to where he started. I suggest that you do the same and post that video in this thread.

There are times that the PC will not spin, even with no pressure applied. It just vibrates.

Impossible, unless something is wrong with your polisher or you are using it on the wrong speed with too much pressure.

Doesn't it need to spin to be effective?

Yes.

So I wonder why it doesn't spin.

Because you are applying too much pressure or your machine is broke. Are you using a Porter-Cable 7424XP??? If you have some Harbor Freight or Auto Zone crap polisher, you're wasting your time and money.

Yes, I start at 3 to spread the polish around. Yes, I move the setting up. So what do you think, too much polish on the pad, not enough?

The polish on the pad has nothing to do with the operation of your polisher. The wrong technique has a TON to do with the effectiveness of the polisher.

Also, after one pass a small ammount of dried polish will sometimes spray off the pad. Is that normal?

Yes, this is normal if you use TOO MUCH POLISH or you are working in the wrong environment (OUTSIDE or on a surface that is too hot). If you are doing stuff wrong, this is normal. If you are doing stuff right, this is NOT normal.

Yes, I use the detail spray to prime the pad. Yes, it's a clean fresh pad. Yes, I'm in the shade. Yes, I spray again to get more polish out as you recommend in your videos.

You don't prime the pad with detail spray, you prime the pad with polish. Detail spray is used to rejuvenate any polish on the pad or to flush out excess polish on the pad.

I am on 50 different detailing forums across the Internet. From Lambo's to Mazda's. You are having the same issues that I have seen a thousand people have and the bottom line is that they did NOT follow my instructions TO THE LETTER. I don't post instructions and tell people to just believe me, I make videos and SHOW you up close and personal what to do. You see me do it and you see it work. The best thing is that I show you on some paint that is more jacked up than anything you will ever work on. If I can fix that paint, then YOUR paint is child's play. You just have to follow my instructions TO THE LETTER. If not, you will just waste product, money and you'll end up frustrated.

Don't be that guy.
 

slysnake

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Okay, two things here. First I was not insulting you.
Your right. I re-read your statement. It appears you are comparing the PC to a cheap set of golf clubs that only a hall of famer can get to work right. :)

I was treating you like a man.
As a man, I generally don't allow people to talk to me like that. Don't see any reason to start now. Even though I respect you and how you generally help people, I don't think that was very helpful.

Without seeing your paint, standing next to you and watching what you are doing, I can't say exactly what you need.
Fair enough

The other issue is exactly what I said before, your technique *****.
Could be, but as you said above, you don't know because you haven't seen it.

For one, it sounds like you are working outdoors.
No, in my garage.

Impossible, unless something is wrong with your polisher or you are using it on the wrong speed with too much pressure.
That's what I thought too. I spread the polish at 3 and work it at 6. I have to use 6 to get it to spin at all 5 it just vibrates. I'll take it apart tomorrow to make sure something didn't come loose.

Are you using a Porter-Cable 7424XP???
Yes. I'm sure pressure is not the problem. I can apply no added pressure and get hardly any rotation. In fact, I had to lift the machine a little to get it to rotate.

The polish on the pad has nothing to do with the operation of your polisher. The wrong technique has a TON to do with the effectiveness of the polisher.
So there goes the idea that I'm using too much polish and that is bogging down the machine. :(

1. You're using way too much product!!! Allow me explain the the technical reason why using too much product renders your technique ineffective.

The pad that you use has holes or "pores" in it. The bigger the pores, the more cut the pad has. This is similar to those facial exfoliating sponges that women use to deep clean their faces. By using too much product, you totally clog up the pores in the pad and render it useless! You could be using the most aggressive polish known to detailing but if the pad has no cut, you're just exercising!
Well, the "just exercising" comment is right on to the results I getting. You don't think this is part of my problem as well? When I didn't get the desired results I did try more polish. Never thought to try less. (Before you say it, Yes, I did start with a quarter size amount. but tried more when that didn't work. I never used nearly the amount that KCOBean used in that video though. The most i tried was one line around the pad. All Adams products, btw.)


You don't prime the pad with detail spray, you prime the pad with polish
Perhaps I stated this the wrong way. In your videos you always do a quick spray of detail spray on the pad before you put the polish on. That's what I ment.

You are having the same issues that I have seen a thousand people have and the bottom line is that they did NOT follow my instructions TO THE LETTER.
Man, I believe you, but I have to tell you I have watched your vids several times. (Not just once) and I could swear I am doing exactly what you say. But I will review them again to see if there is something I am missing.

So as you can see, he learned a lot by making a video of what he was doing and now he is having major success compared to where he started. I suggest that you do the same and post that video in this thread.
I will when I get the time to polish my car again. I feel I need a couple of full days to do the 2 bucket wash, clay bar, wash again, dry car, start polishing. With work and the weekend being taken up by the Holiday, it may be a while before I can try to do it.
 
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