What kind of Viper would you prefer?

[MoparMap]

This is a hotly debated topic, so hopefully we can keep things civil. I've read several car reviews on various different cars that tend to reflect a theme common to Vipers (I think at least). It has to do with that somewhat intangible and largely subjective idea of a car being "fun to drive". Any car can fall into this category, from a Volkswagen Beetle to a McLaren P1. It's not about numbers, it's not about cost, it's just about how the car makes you feel when you drive it. Others are firmly in the camp of "I don't care as long as it's the fastest thing on the road". To my mind, this recalls namely the Nissan GT-R. I've heard several people say that while the car is stupid fast and realtively easy to drive, it gets boring because it just doesn't feel like you're really pushing it.

This topic seems to get brought up often regarding the Viper design. Lots of people just want the Viper to stomp whatever else is out there by any means necessary (supercharged V8, DCT, active aero, CCB, etc.), others would rather see the car stay true to its roots and keep a big V10 under the hood with minimal computer enhancements and require driver skill more than anything to be fast. What's your opinion? I myself love all my cars because they're just fun. The feeling of a monster 8L+ engine shaking the car at idle could rock me to sleep at night. My Dart puts a smile on my face every time I drive it because I've put a ton of work into it and it's just cool to me. My old Vette is the slowest of them all, but I love the way it looks and it's essentially a time machine since it's more or less factory stock and I like keeping it that way. I always would like to be faster than the next guy, but I'd rather have fun doing it than drive a fast car that just feels clinical.

 

[gb66gth]

It's all about the experience.
No matter how fast you car is, eventually something will be faster.
If it's a blast to drive, it will always be a blast to drive.
If it's not fun to drive, it never will be.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Should all start as the TA, then if you want higher end trim you could add to the build sheet.

 

[Bobpantax]

It is hard to imagine how a car that is the fastest OEM street legal car on the road would not be fun to drive but I suppose that with too much nannytech the experience could be made so sterile as to become boring. But many posters on the Forum these days seem to want more and more nannytech so one person's fun can be another person's yawn.

 

[3whitevipers]

I like Mark's suggestion--Dave

 

[steve e]

The Viper needs to be bored to at least 10 L V10, so it can be competitive on the street with everything else. That would also be the cheapest way to make more power. And yes all start as TAs.

 

[klamathpro]

I picked "Fastest thing on the road." Which is one reason I sold my RT/10, kept the 98' GTS, and bought a modded GT-R. I was going to originally dump both Vipers for a GEN-V until I drove one, and quite frankly found myself wanting more power even before I purchased it. I don't know how I could ever get bored of the GT-R. I look for excuses to drive it and simply put more miles on it than my Viper. I will probably always keep the GTS because it's a classic with it's own character, but I have a need for speed and winning at the stop lights. So far I'm undefeated in the GT-R and simply don't see how it could lose to anything except a faster GT-R or a UGR Gallardo. It's faster than an Aventador and a 911 Turbo S and that is really what I wanted from my other car. I may swap it out in the future but only for an R36 GT-R. As far as the comments about the car having too many nannies is ridiculous, especially when most cars including the GEN-V, have all the same nannies except the option of auto-mode and awd. In R,R,R mode I can squeal the tires and drift in corners if I hammer the throttle on stock tires. I find the paddle shifters to be more challenging than a stick because I have to be much quicker in my timing as each shift is over in a split second while launching. Those that have never driven a modded GT-R with R888 tires will simply never understand. It's not even comparable to a 1000+RWHP vehicle with slicks on the street, it's more like a top fuel dragster that can corner. The G forces it can put you through in both straight lines and in corners is unbelievable. Any GT-R owner that isn't modded is missing out on a whole other level of performance. I know I sound like I'm over-selling the car, but I've really never experienced anything that pulls this hard, short of a jet. When I tell people about the car, they are like "yeah, that sounds cool, whatever." But then I take them for a ride; guys that grew up around 800+HP muscle cars have said they never experienced anything that fast before. Everyone that has taken a ride in it said "it wasn't a ride... it was an experience." If the GT-R is too clinical to some, then a few skulls needs to have surgery performed. It amazes me when I hear how many GT-R owners have NEVER used launch control or pushed their car around a track for fear they might void the warranty or put excess wear on the car. No wonder you are bored of the car, you don't use it for what it was built for and never pushed it to it's limits. Put some track tires on that thing and see what it can really do.

As far as the Viper ever being the fastest thing on the road like back in the 90's, I don't know. It would need a DCT with at least 700HP and a decent launch control unlike the joke of LC that's installed now. I really don't know how any car that can't be modded because of a locked PCM can ever gain real street cred. I know it's a dead horse, but if the Z06 can be pullied past 700HP (which it will), the paddle shift version will decimate the Viper on the street. I know that eventually something faster will come along, but at least give the owners a fighting chance at delaying that with mods. Wake up Dodge.

 

[MoparMap]

That's just what I'm getting at though. Maybe Dodge isn't trying to sell the fastest thing on the road and is instead trying to sell an "experience" like you talk about with your GT-R. Even though my Viper isn't faster than most of the new cars out there, the way it does what it does makes it feel different than something with similar or better speed sometimes. My parents have a 99 Vette and a 94 Viper. By the numbers they're actually fairly similar cars, but the way each feels is totally different. The same is true of my 67 Dart and the 99 Vette, at least in a straight line. The power and weight is almost identical and even the gearing, but the way each one feels when you nail it just doesn't compare.

I think one of the big differences with the Viper at least is the torquey grunt that you don't get with a lot of other cars. Lots of cars have high horsepower numbers, but not much low end pull. I had a Jag XKR that you had to wind up to at least 3k before it really even felt like it wanted to go anywhere. My Viper is dang near a flat torque curve, so it responds well no matter what the engine speed. You can design a car to feel fast and fun to drive without it actually having to be the fastest thing out there, though everyone is different and used to different things. Heck, I drove my 04 Viper, 67 Dart (with a 5.7 Hemi and T56), and stock 350 auto 71 Vette all practically back to back to back in a single day once when I was moving them around. Of course the Viper is the fastest, but each one is still fun to drive in its own regards and at its own limits.

I've found a similar thing now with Kart racing. Just bought a clone kart and even though it's a dog out of corners and probably doesn't top 50 on the track I race on, it feels like it's on rails around corners. It's not the speed (or lack of it) that's thrilling, it's the way it does it.

 

[Vital Velocity]

I want fastest and fun to drive. Of course being from Houston, ill never be the fastest as there are some serious....SERIOUS cars down here. But as long as im faster than 99.5% of them and its fun to drive....im good

 

[Bryan Savage]

I voted for "Fastest thing on the road", but I kind of feel that's not quite it. I think with as fast as the market is moving, any car will only enjoy two or three years "on top" before it's eclipsed by something else. It's like trying to have the best mobile phone. As soon as a product is released, it's behind the times. You'll never be the fastest thing on the road. There's always someone with more money and your reign at the top will always be shorter than you wished.

Supercar performance has progressed far beyond 90% of drivers' talent. I don't have the skill to drive a Corolla to 100% of its potential, so why am I worried about whether my Viper is faster on paper than the latest Mustang, Camaro, GT-R, Audi, etc... Who really cares?

Since whatever you drive can only be the fastest thing on the road for so long, the car you really want has to have presence. Nobody gives a crap about a 1992 Corvette, but a 1992 Viper still turns heads. The car carries a weight with it where one will always be cool, regardless if it's fast or not.

So for the vote, I do care, but the other choices don't really capture what I like about these cars. I don't care who you are. Six hundred horsepowers is a LOT. It doesn't bother me that my car doesn't have 800. What are you really accomplishing at that point? Give me the style, the sound, the exclusivity, and the presence, and I'll always like the Viper.

 

[MoparMap]

That's a nice way to look at it. I get a similar feeling driving my old Dart. Something about the boxy muscular shape of those old cars just looks cool going down the road. I always chuckled that the answer to aerodynamics back in the 60s and 70s was just more power. Overcome physics with brute force.

I also agree about not being able to put most of the performance I have to good use. The roads of America are not fit for wringing a car like the Viper out to its limits. Highways don't have runoff zones and consistent surfaces (not that some racetracks do either, but you get my point hopefully). If I can light the tires up to 80 mph in first and second gear, I've already passed any speed limit in the States. More power just means I'll be able to do it to even higher speeds, which doesn't really do me any good.