Thread: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    I met a fellow from Arrow that worked on your new PCM tune at VIR last summer. He was there custom tuning 3 Comp Coupe race cars at pit wall and highly recommended this new tune to me for track use. Ralph has basically run the tune forever in his white car and also recommended it to me, as did Dick. I suspect others may make more power, but we can at least have complete faith in this tune I believe.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    There is not a close second to Arrow 's viper capabilities. If you want more NA power, especially with heads and cam, why look elsewhere, they have proven the reliab ility/driveability with a test mule that has logged several thousand miles.

    Just a guess, however, anyone else offering a fixed cam is either going to copy or buy the fixed cam conversion parts from Arrow.
    Last edited by Jack B; 02-15-2015 at 02:30 PM.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Deleted post
    Last edited by Mopar488; 02-16-2015 at 06:54 AM. Reason: Deleted

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Thankyou Jack. I'm thinking then the best way to go would be the maintain the stock airbox, however, replace the air filter element itself with a superior flowing one. Amsoil perhaps or AFE if and when they are availabe.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Dave. I believe that Dick Winkles has said that the stock air filter is the best one to use.
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Stock air box yes We all know paper doesnt flow nearly as well as aftermarket elements. thx

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    FYI: K & N part no. 33-2432 Flows 893 CFM. Sounds like a fine addition.

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Jack needs to post on this also. I recall him experimenting a bit and for some reson the stock filter was the best. I think Mark J also chimed in. It just occurred to me to ask Mark whether whatever caused the stock air filter to be the best with the stock controller was altered in the Arrow controller so a replacement filter will not cause a code and, if it is higher flow, result in a benefit. Mark?

    It is 59 here right now and I just got back from a ride. The additional power from the Arrow controller was obvious and even felt like a bit more but that is undoubtedly due to the temperature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1968 View Post
    FYI: K & N part no. 33-2432 Flows 893 CFM. Sounds like a fine addition.
    Last edited by Bobpantax; 02-18-2015 at 07:05 PM.
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Hey Bob, Where, or from who, did you buy the arrow race controller.

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Mark at Woodhouse.
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Great. Thx for the info.

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    So, I don't get it - why add the controller without adding any extra mods?

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    From Viper Xchange site:

    Package 1 – Off Road Race Controller – 670hp
    THIS (available now, MSRP $1100)

    The Venom Race Control Module Kit is a direct replacement for the stock engine control module. Installation takes about 20 minutes. This will give the Viper approx 20-25 hp via slightly more aggressive ignition timing, and a more optimized air-fuel ratio. All factory ECM’s found on the Vipers are only tuned for a max of 91 octane fuel, whereas the Venom controller can provide the additional gains found from using 93 octane, which is readily available in most states. Here are the list of gains from this Venom ECM:
    • Revised fuel, spark, and cam position
    • Aggressive off-throttle exhaust note THIS
    • Requires minimum 93 octane fuel
    • Rpm limiter raised from 6400 up to 6600 THIS
    • Flexibility of rearend gear ratios can self-learn from 3.07 to 4.10 ratios.
    • 1st gear to 4th gear skip-shift has been eliminated THIS
    • Catalyst monitor disabled (can run without catalytics, without setting a code)
    • Air flow rationality disabled
    • Misfire detection disabled
    And if I decide to do more, it is already there.
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    The K&N may flow more dirty air new and less dirty air used. The sensors and engine will appreciate this down the road. Also the K&N filter lacks the stiffness to withstand the pressurized air box at speed where the factory one was specifically designed for this.
    Mark Jorgensen, Manager
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Just off the dyno with the highest powered TA we did with the HP Tuners software and then switching out to the Arrow PCM. Back to back results, 3 pulls each in a row (all temps the same) numbers varied +- 1 hp. Arrow PCM was slightly behind for the first half of the pull (this HPT was still on the modified throttle tables that were causing limp modes though) so the gains were because the Arrow ramp rate was slower, (although for some reason on the street the Arrow PCM felt much more crisp...).

    The second half of the pull the Arrow PCM took back the lead and finished a couple rwhp up. Not bad for a plug and play $1100 option to the HPT. A/F ratio was very good over the entire pull, off throttle pop is back for those of you who love that, and the drivability was perfect.

    Can't see it well, but the HPT was 566 and the Arrow was 570 so very close, most of the other HPT cars we did were 8-14rwhp lower that this particular Viper.

    Last edited by ViperJeff; 02-19-2015 at 11:21 PM. Reason: corrected img link
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Hi Mark. I cannot open the image. Also, what do you think is a fair driveline loss percentage to use in calculating Flywheel HP?
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.



    003.jpg


    Think this is the picture he's trying to show
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.”
    ― Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Thanks Jeff. Can you enlarge it a bit?
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpantax View Post
    Hi Mark. I cannot open the image. Also, what do you think is a fair driveline loss percentage to use in calculating Flywheel HP?
    I don't know the losses, on our dyno the calculation is about 1.23, most stock cars run about 515rwhp.
    Mark Jorgensen, Manager
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Mark. I note that this is a Mustang Dyno. Don't they show 10% lower than a Dynojet? What do you think the 570 RWHP equates to at the flywheel?
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpantax View Post
    Mark. I note that this is a Mustang Dyno. Don't they show 10% lower than a Dynojet? What do you think the 570 RWHP equates to at the flywheel?
    probably 690-700, I've driven this car at COTA and it hits 170+ on the back straight, it is very strong.
    Mark Jorgensen, Manager
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpantax View Post
    Thanks Jeff. Can you enlarge it a bit?
    Probably, however, not where I'm at right now
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.”
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Did you do any comparison of a stock car with each respective controller? The one in the dynograph above had headers and Corsa catback - right? I ask because I think I am getting more than just a 25 to 30 HP bump. I can break traction in ways I could not before. The car seems to be picking up more HP under lower outside temp conditions than the stock calibration allowed. Could the new controller's calibration be allowing this?
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpantax View Post
    Did you do any comparison of a stock car with each respective controller? The one in the dynograph above had headers and Corsa catback - right? I ask because I think I am getting more than just a 25 to 30 HP bump. I can break traction in ways I could not before. The car seems to be picking up more HP under lower outside temp conditions than the stock calibration allowed. Could the new controller's calibration be allowing this?
    We have not had a stock car to start with yet, I've sold so many Belangers in the past 2 years these are cars that have been waiting for the PCM at the moment. We will eventually have some new 15's that we will do start to finish, same way we will when the H/C package arrives.
    Mark Jorgensen, Manager
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  25. #55
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Quick question. Have you tried doing your test with no air filter or with an aftermarket one. I'm not sure how much air this motor will process at high RPM's , but there might be a bottle neck there. I would think it could move more than 500 CFM wide open and I seriously doubt that stock paper filter will move even that much. If you could get another few horses by opening that up, so much the better. I've always tried to increase efficiency throughout to get every last drop - right down to indexing spark plugs. thx.

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    dyno.jpgI found this dyno chart posted on another site. If the poster sees this, perhaps he will comment.


    Pretty impressive. It is a stock Gen V with the stock controller versus a stock Gen V with the Arrow Racing Engines controller. The torque number on the stock run is low ( probably some sort of glitch that day) and the runs were done on different days but on the same dyno.

    The HP numbers ( 567.9 versus 534.7) certainly confirm what I am feeling as a difference. It is an easily noticed difference. Basically, 675 HP.
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Some have asked me about the decel rumbling. It is a deeper, more coherent sound. It is not louder. It is a more macho sound which I am sure they intended it to be. In a non TA variant, which has more sound insulation, it will be less audible. Note that since you keep your stock controller and it only takes about 30 minutes or so to have your SRT Viper tech swap the controller out, you can have it both ways if you want it in for some spirited driving but want to change it back for a long drive. At highway speed in sixth, the sound is OK. Boring, LOL, but OK.
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Just for clarification, If the after the install, the owner decides to put the stock computer back in the car, can they do that themselves, or does it have to go back to the dealer each time a swap is made?

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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Just for clarification, If the after the install, the owner decides to put the stock computer back in the car, can they do that themselves, or does it have to go back to the dealer each time a swap is made?
    Yes you can do it all on your own afterwards. There is a start run timer code that can trip sometimes that needs to be cleared but a scanner can do that.
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    Default Re: Arrow Race Controller - preliminary observatuions.

    Tested the new 6600 RPM limit today. Try it. You will like it.
    '14 Blk Vper TA; old Vper: Q:11.4, st mi:174; '15 Auto Chall Hellcat Q:10.985/126.96; 08 SRT8 Jeep(159.52 st mi)(Q:12.13/111.7);00 Fd Ltning:Q:12.89/105.48 (sold). Best Q (Tp Dragster): 207.43 /6.793

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