How much boost can the Gen V motor take and the car for that matter?

Dave1968

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I was looking at the specs. for the supercharger kit that will be available in 2016. It refers to having 900 BHP at 6 pounds boost. Apparently the Gen V motor and chassis is already built for this gain, so, my question is - how much boost, and power, can we get away with on a stock motor and chassis. I figure if I'm going to spend all that money buying the kit, I might as well put a smaller pulley on and spin that sucker as fast as possible and get all my gains now instead of fooling around later with a smaller pulley etc... Of course, it goes without saying, would the fuel system upgrade, etc... still be able to handle the systems needs with the smaller pulley or would I have to upgrade the upgrades? I'm thinking if a guy could run 10 pounds boost and get 1100 BHP I would be satisfied - for awhile anyway. lol.

Your thoughts and knowledge pls.
 
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The S/C package is based on the stock GenV pistons, the 6 PSI is where Arrow feels the life of the pistons will not be too compromised. They are still emissions compliant pistons with a tiny thin top ring land and will only take so much heat and pressure before they weaken and crack off. Can you do better than the 6psi? sure, but for how long nobody knows, except maybe Arrow from testing it.
 

Paul Hawker

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This question reminds me of when Paxton came out with their supercharger package for Gen III Vipers. In stock form it made almost 800 hp and was super drivable with great reliability.

When customers wanted more, they added additional fuel, more complex timing control, bigger intercoolers, and smaller pulleys among other modifications. Indeed the power levels came up, but the reliability plummeted.

At higher boost levels the pistons gave way, the fuel octane needed to go up, the drivelines began to fail.

Sometimes better is the enemy of good.
 
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Dave1968

Dave1968

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Sounds good. So putting this all together. If we stick with 6 psi for now until testing reveals a higher/safe limit as far as longevity goes, then the trick will be to maximize air flow to move as much as possible and to not exceed 6psi . High flow cats are included, but maybe off road exhaust will move just a little more. The next bottleneck- throttle bodies. They appear to be using stock ones with the system. So larger ones, will hopefully be available at release time. This motor will really be able to breath - maybe 1000 hp worth.
 

Stuntman

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The limit has many fronts from cylinder temps, cylinder pressures, etc... If you're running huge turbos that make 1,500hp at 4psi and the air charge is cool and dense, the cylinder pressures from the horsepower could cause the ringlands to fail, thus the issue was not 'boost'. The dense air charge and added oxygen from Nitrous greatly spikes the cylinder pressures (an extreme example of the direction of reducing air intake temps, having more CFMs, and making more power with the same boost level) -so the horsepower and cylinder pressures breaks things, not 'boost level'.

-Difficult question to answer without considering everything and having a more specific question. Turbo sizing plays a big role unless you want to hold the turbo size and boost at a constant.
 
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Dave1968

Dave1968

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From what I know, the Gen V motor is internally stronger than the Gen IV motor. So we might be able to predict with reasonable accuracy, using experiments and real world upgrade data from people who have modded their Gen IV engines, just how much the Gen V will take. If that tiny thin top ring land is the same size in both and people have been getting huge power with twin turbos, etc... we should be able to get away with more than 900 hp in this new engine. If that is the weakest link in the chain, which I believe it is, we need someone who has access to both motors, at some time within the next year or so, to do some measurements and comparisons to allow us to make a decision on which way to go. Does anyone know somebody at Arrow who would have this info. The way I see it, we have a year or so to research these questions and then when the kits come out pretty much nothing on the road will touch these cars.
 

Paul Hawker

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Dick Winkles, the father of our beloved V-10 has just retired from Chrysler, and taken a position at Arrow. Nobody knows more about the development of this engine, and is well aware of the application of forced induction to make additional power.

I would believe that if a supercharger/turbocharger system is announced, that it will be released as a complete package, with additional modifications available to gain additional power.

A rule of thumb for engines is...the candle that burns brightly, burns briefly. While many want to focus on an impressive maximum HP/Torque number, the entire vehicle needs to be brought into consideration before production.

On my Supercharged Gen 3 if was quickly apparent that the engine was writing a check that the chassis could not cash. The tires lost grip, the frame had difficulty dealing with the power coming out of corners, etc. Simply putting on stickier tires was not the answer, as then the driveline would not hold up.
 
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Dave1968

Dave1968

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Sounds like Dick will be the person to answer all these questions - motor and chassis. I think 1100 hp will be the number to shoot for without having to make motor or chassis mods and still not be too crazy as to pull the car apart. I don't plan on beating my car into the ground - I've never done that. I just want more power than I will use on a regular basis - no, 900 HP is not enough, as I will use that on a regular basis! lol.
 
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