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  1. #1

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    Default New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    As exciting as the raffle ACR is, the more interesting piece may be the new membership categories. The ACR raffle is a great carrot to drive membership. I had been a member for 10 years and chose to not renew based on the past shenanigans. I am a member of the other club, and am not opposed to belonging to both clubs.

    Are these new membership categories real and the bylaw changes made? Are the new memberships prorated as is the current policy?

    If I am going to join the VCA, can I get a feeling for the number of current members and the financial stability of the club? Have the financials for the year ending 3/31/2015 been filed?

    What events/plans/etc have been made for 2016? What regional events took place during 2015?

    Hope that this can remain a civil discussion.


    And for those that have not read the raffle flyer:

    Legacy Membership: Previously owned a Viper? Join the VCA and become a Legacy Member. Venom or Regular VCA Membership rates and benefits apply.

    E-Membership: Own or have owned a Viper? VCA "E" Membership, includes all regular VCA Membership benefits except a printed VIPER Magazine. E-Members instead, will receive an electronic copy of VIPER Magazine. Only $75 per calendar year.

    R-Membership: Non-members that haven't owned a Viper can join with a Raffle Only Membership to purchase tickets. $75 Membership (calendar year).
    R-Member pricing: Single ticket: $200 for first ticket, $125 each after, six pack of tickets: $700

  2. #2
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Rocket62. Nicely asked! And yes we can answer some of your question. Others could be answered if you were a member. First is membership. It appears the clubs have equal memberships levels. It is a little difficult to say one way or the other because the two clubs count members differently. The VCA counts it's membership per car and one driver. Anyone added to the membership number are not counted outwardly per say. Please contact your other club as to how they count members. Hope that helps, Oh! by the way we know how things things can get if some other group finds out you joined the this club. So we respect this and will limit pictures place on the web per your request.

    As far as the bylaws are concerned, we can only say (things are changen!!!!!!). I guess I'll start with the biggeeee. No officer in this club receives any money for work or travel. Only one person that receives a regular pay check from the club, is the person in charge of day to day operation. C.J. It's the voice on the other end of the phones when you call home office. As far as the finished bylaws are concerned, they're a work in progress. Every time we get together, the bylaws are discussed. As far as a written copy it will take time. Please remember when everyone left the VCA a big chunk of workers left too. It will take time to get everything written up correctly, because most officers work 50+ hours a weekon their own careers.

    The last bit brings something up that has been rolling around in my head. Yes. It's empty I own a Viper. First,With all the support the group that left the VCA had, why did they not just stay and fix things? It was their club as much as it was mine. I think they forgot that together we stand and divided we fall. The last things I wish to ask is that it seems that you have heard something about the VCA will you share? The more information one has, the better off one is.
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  3. #3

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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Thanks for answering some of the questions - unfortunate that your response digressed. If you want more people to join/rejoin, my questions are reasonable. I'll respond by saying that this has nothing to do with the other club. As a matter of fact, much of MY disdain with the the leadership that caused all of the problems started when Chris M. accused me of being a henchman for Jon B - which was ironic as at the time, I thought Jon B. was an ass. Then add in the ridiculous threats of membership suspension from Marvelous Marv when I asked questions about the club .... well .... it is what it was - and is water under the bridge from my perspective.

    It really comes down to whether I will invest in the VCA by becoming a member - which I was a part of for 10 years - and supported every raffle and 3 VOI's. It also comes down to whether the raffle, which is a great membership drive, draws enough people to actually award the ACR. From my perspective, and in my opinion only - I would be disappointed if I became a member and then the raffle did not sell the required 1900 tickets.

    And since no one asked for my opinion, the 1900 minimum number to award the ACR seems like an aggressive goal seeing as only 400ish tickets were sold for the last raffle. Also, since no one asked for my opinion, seems like a $100,000 profit if the 1900 ticket goal is reached to award the ACR is a greedy take. How about paying the taxes for the winner?
    Last edited by ROCKET62; 08-19-2015 at 09:57 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Thanks for answering some of the questions - unfortunate that your response digressed. If you want more people to join/rejoin, my questions are reasonable. I'll respond by saying that this has nothing to do with the other club. As a matter of fact, much of my disdain with the the leadership that caused all of the problems started when Chris M. accused me of being a henchman for John B - which was ironic as at the time, I thought Jon B. was an ass. Then add in the ridiculous threats of membership suspension from Marvelous Marv when I asked questions about the club .... well .... it is what it was - and is water under the bridge from my perspective.

    I understand

    It really comes down to whether I will invest in the VCA by becoming a member - which I was a part of for 10 years - and supported every raffle and 3 VOI's. It also comes down to whether the raffle, which is a great membership drive, draws enough people to actually award the ACR. From my perspective, and in my opinion only - I would be disappointed if I became a member and then the raffle did not sell the required 1900 tickets.

    And since no one asked for my opinion, the 1900 minimum number to award the ACR seems like an aggressive goal seeing as only 400ish tickets were sold for the last raffle. Also, since no one asked for my opinion, seems like a $100,000 profit if the 1900 ticket goal is reached to award the ACR is a greedy take. How about paying the taxes for the winner?


    Again I understand what your saying, many of your questions are being discussed, but no matter how you look at it, you will have to make a choice. Also it has become a club problem. Are you aware of what your club has said on Facebook about the raffle. These kind of things not only hurt club to club relations but it also drives away future and past Viper owners. The clubs have separated it needs to end.

    Sorry! I sometime get up set more than I should because of the hurt my wife has received from all this. Please understand it's not you. Again sorry if I took too much of your time on this. I must say you have done what you said "nice talking"
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  5. #5

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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    I have not seen any comment on the owners website - and will look at FB. Mind providing a link either here or via PM.

    Regarding your reference to "What your club has said" - keep in mind that is what the individual said - not the club. Sometimes the lines get blurred between individual thoughts and "club positions". Officers certainly need to remember that when they comment on something it can be construed as what the club thinks! I'm certainly not afraid to call people out when they cross the line.

    I personally thought the last VOA raffle/give-away was wrong as it gave ZERO chance to members that could not attend the event for whatever reason. It was not a club prize - it was a prize for those that could attend - and I have already voiced my concerns to my local club president.
    Last edited by ROCKET62; 08-19-2015 at 09:52 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    I understand and believe in things the same way. If more people were like yourself things would be different. As far as Facebook I only use it for games. If would you please try to find it yourself. If you don't find it let me know and I will get for you.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Facebook is the Meca for bad information.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    So far so good on staying civil. I tried to get on here yesterday to answer some of your questions and I still think some may be unanswered. Hopefully this won't be too repetitive.

    The new membership categories are real, and were voted on by board. They were also in place for the Hellcat raffle. To my knowledge, there is on pro-ration on these rates, however, that is an idea I personally am not opposed to. Perhaps the board wouldn't be as well.

    I see getting longtime members to consider coming back as an indication we are doing things right. I still hold hope that one day the club reunite, but only time will tell.

    Not sure how many members are in your area, if you wish to PM me some search criteria, I would be happy to provide some data. Quite honestly, I don't think there have been too many events in Iowa to my knowledge.

    Financials have not been filed yet to my knowledge. We have been playing catch up and filed an extension for 2014 return. The 2012 and 2013 information is posted in the members section of this forum. The due date may be approaching soon.

    As far as financial stability, we are actually in better shape now than we were a few years ago, the board has worked hard to cut expenses and have not taken travel stipends, etc since the split.

    We are currently working on VOI 14, which if all works out, will be a great event. I can't honestly answer about local events as Iowa is outside my region.

    Let us know if you have any other questions. Thank you for reconsidering coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROCKET62 View Post
    As exciting as the raffle ACR is, the more interesting piece may be the new membership categories. The ACR raffle is a great carrot to drive membership. I had been a member for 10 years and chose to not renew based on the past shenanigans. I am a member of the other club, and am not opposed to belonging to both clubs.

    Are these new membership categories real and the bylaw changes made? Are the new memberships prorated as is the current policy?

    If I am going to join the VCA, can I get a feeling for the number of current members and the financial stability of the club? Have the financials for the year ending 3/31/2015 been filed?

    What events/plans/etc have been made for 2016? What regional events took place during 2015?

    Hope that this can remain a civil discussion.


    And for those that have not read the raffle flyer:

    Legacy Membership: Previously owned a Viper? Join the VCA and become a Legacy Member. Venom or Regular VCA Membership rates and benefits apply.

    E-Membership: Own or have owned a Viper? VCA "E" Membership, includes all regular VCA Membership benefits except a printed VIPER Magazine. E-Members instead, will receive an electronic copy of VIPER Magazine. Only $75 per calendar year.

    R-Membership: Non-members that haven't owned a Viper can join with a Raffle Only Membership to purchase tickets. $75 Membership (calendar year).
    R-Member pricing: Single ticket: $200 for first ticket, $125 each after, six pack of tickets: $700

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperJohn View Post
    Financials have not been filed yet to my knowledge. We have been playing catch up and filed an extension for 2014 return. The 2012 and 2013 information is posted in the members section of this forum. The due date may be approaching
    The financials are posted in the members section. Why not post them in the open forum. Any Tom, Dick and Harry is entitled by law, to see them. If finances are truly in order, and I do believe they are. post them up for all to see. Couldn't hurt.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Granger73-----------is there something you're looking for? Maybe we can get the info for you before the financial iare, released. I know there are several things involved with the financials for,up coming events events. Please is there something important for you . Rddd
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Nothing specific, but the return is completed and filed, it's part of the public domain. It would be a step forward to make it available to all on the website, that's all I'm suggesting.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by GRANGER73 View Post
    The financials are posted in the members section. Why not post them in the open forum. Any Tom, Dick and Harry is entitled by law, to see them. If finances are truly in order, and I do believe they are. post them up for all to see. Couldn't hurt.
    This way free loaders and pain in the ass people can't see them

  13. #13
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by GRANGER73 View Post
    Nothing specific, but the return is completed and filed, it's part of the public domain. It would be a step forward to make it available to all on the website, that's all I'm suggesting.
    If the financials were posted for all to see, would you feel happy enough about the situation to pony up for a membership and join?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    When I see the 990 for YE 3/31/2015 posted on here or a link to it, i will do!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by steve e View Post
    This way free loaders and pain in the ass people can't see them
    No, that way people who are/were concerned with prior financial disclosure can review and make their own conclusions. Once again, it is in the public domain. ANYONE who asks is entitled to a copy. I'm not sure if you are categorizing me as a free loader or a pain in the ass, but I do plead guilty of expecting full disclosure.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Awww, poor OP has to worry about his $100 expenditure. Most of us consider $100 a decvent lunch or an ok dinner, but not OP, he must do an exhaustive set of research to spend a substantial portion of his net worth on a car club. Or is it, since there is no similar post at the VOA or VA, that OP wants to sew some dissention here? ALone? Or perhaps OP did ask, got attcked by Randallas rainbow warrirors and the post got deleted, who knows.Bit anyway, since you are so interested in doing some due diligence, here are some facts that are inconvenient for everyone,, but they are facts:Magazines:fact- bot orgs have a reason to inflategate the membership numbers, and since no one is publishing the real member list what is said by the orgs is irrelevantfact- randalls boyfriend got fired from printring the mag, so Maurice could hide his earnings within the magazine line item (but his BF is still paid handdsomely to answerr the phones). So iironically both the VQ and the VM are printed at the same printerfact- I have a friend at said printerFact- the voa printed 1500 of the most recent VQFact - The VOA states they have 1860 members (3 pinnochios, they double count households, or several hundred are pissed they didn't get a mag)Fact - the VOA states to their advertisers they print 3500 mags (10 pinnochios, an outright llie)Fact - The VCA printed 1400 of teh most recent magFact - The vca states they have 1100 members (why the extras? free mags for buds?)So we can deduce its nearly a wash on membership numbers, and no don't trust the counter, nor a post from any board member of either group. Also, look at the financials of both orgs, you can deduce the number, and it comes out to 1200-1400 for each org through that calc. It's a wash, and they both suck for numbersFinanciaals:Both orgs suck financially, but you knew thatFact- VCA pays 5-8k per printing on each magFact - VPA pays 15-20k per printing So why 2-3x? We now know they print roughly the same number. Sure, VQ is larger, but does that justify 2-3x? NOPE! As stated before, this line item is where mighty maurice makes his money.Fact - Both orgs lose money on membershipsFact - Both orgs need fundraisers to surviveFact - VOA conducts a forced fundraiser in their events. The first raffle event went well (where a board member won last time) but this next one is a dog. It's a dumb event event, in a crappy city, no real true time, and people have figured out being forced to gamble to line maurices pocket to kiss his overinflated ego is no fun for them. So they're in a heap of trouble as they promised to raffle carsFact- the VCA has an optional raffle that hasn't done well. But, perhaps winnig 40K+ would make you not worry so much about how you spend $100?Fact - The VCA is healthier due to better revenue through raffles, and lower costs due to not paying randall's BF and Maurice, but the VCA costs presumably include IRS attorneys, so perhaps that's a wash as well.So my overall recommendation is to stick with the $ menu at McD, save the rest for an oil change, and sell the viper you clearly can't afford.To the rest of you, I dont see your questions on the VOA site? DOn't tell me you think what was posted there was factual, or complete? It's an insult to anyone who has actually seen a set of financials, but you never asked did you? If you want to have the look of bring impartial, perhaps you ask everyone the same questions?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    97 ViperGTS, Wow that's a lot of eye opening info, I have been in this club since 95 when I got my first Viper. I never knew about all the stuff that went on here, seems to be all good now. I have a lot of fun in the club and there are a lot of good people here, and always willing to help with the car. Granger73 Both.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Wow dude, formatting might help a bit? Also on the line on the personal attacks, could I ask you to clean that part up a bit?

    A few points here:
    1) We try and respect our heritage here, since we just inherited this 20 year old club from others, I believe the detailed financials have always been for the board. We then extended it to members to be more transparent (hey we have to have some benefit differentiation right?). However given the competitive realities, perhaps a summary set of financials would make sense in public view. I will make that request to the team and let's see what we can do (it will take some time from Lucas and CJ).
    2) There's a question of membership and mags. I can confirm the aforementioned quantity produced this month (roughly 1400). The 1100 membership number is also semi-accurate (A tad low since we just had a region come over last week, yes we have 20 year old systems and haven't spent the money on a fancy counter, so it takes work to figure out).
    3) We do produce extra mags for our buds, they are called advertisers, subscribers (yes people pay for just the mag), and vendors. In case it comes up, we (the board) pay for membership at the same rate as everyone else, so even we don't get a free magazine.
    4) since there is some insinuation to the contrary, I will say it one more time. The only person that makes a single dime off this club is CJ (and she is paid fairly, and much below what we used to pay even a year ago). Each of us on the board puts money INTO the club, and takes ZERO out. We pay for our events, memberships, travel, etc out of our own pocket with no reimbursements, stipends, or discounts that are in excess of any other member (venom discounts). So we are just members like you that volunteer some extra time. 100% of the receipts of this club go towards website, member benefits (which includes member support, CJ), events, regional support, magazines, and yes, legal fees.

    In summary, I think we have a great story to tell (except for the legal fees, which are of course beyond our control), especially compared with other clubs and our history (we are easily the leanest and most efficient we have ever been), so thanks for the request that we tell it in a professional way, let me get back to you on summary financials.

    Greg

  19. #19
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 Viper GTS View Post
    Awww, poor OP has to worry about his $100 expenditure. Most of us consider $100 a decvent lunch or an ok dinner, but not OP, he must do an exhaustive set of research to spend a substantial portion of his net worth on a car club. Or is it, since there is no similar post at the VOA or VA, that OP wants to sew some dissention here? ALone? Or perhaps OP did ask, got attcked by Randallas rainbow warrirors and the post got deleted, who knows.Bit anyway, since you are so interested in doing some due diligence, here are some facts that are inconvenient for everyone,, but they are facts:Magazines:fact- bot orgs have a reason to inflategate the membership numbers, and since no one is publishing the real member list what is said by the orgs is irrelevantfact- randalls boyfriend got fired from printring the mag, so Maurice could hide his earnings within the magazine line item (but his BF is still paid handdsomely to answerr the phones). So iironically both the VQ and the VM are printed at the same printerfact- I have a friend at said printerFact- the voa printed 1500 of the most recent VQFact - The VOA states they have 1860 members (3 pinnochios, they double count households, or several hundred are pissed they didn't get a mag)Fact - the VOA states to their advertisers they print 3500 mags (10 pinnochios, an outright llie)Fact - The VCA printed 1400 of teh most recent magFact - The vca states they have 1100 members (why the extras? free mags for buds?)So we can deduce its nearly a wash on membership numbers, and no don't trust the counter, nor a post from any board member of either group. Also, look at the financials of both orgs, you can deduce the number, and it comes out to 1200-1400 for each org through that calc. It's a wash, and they both suck for numbersFinanciaals:Both orgs suck financially, but you knew thatFact- VCA pays 5-8k per printing on each magFact - VPA pays 15-20k per printing So why 2-3x? We now know they print roughly the same number. Sure, VQ is larger, but does that justify 2-3x? NOPE! As stated before, this line item is where mighty maurice makes his money.Fact - Both orgs lose money on membershipsFact - Both orgs need fundraisers to surviveFact - VOA conducts a forced fundraiser in their events. The first raffle event went well (where a board member won last time) but this next one is a dog. It's a dumb event event, in a crappy city, no real true time, and people have figured out being forced to gamble to line maurices pocket to kiss his overinflated ego is no fun for them. So they're in a heap of trouble as they promised to raffle carsFact- the VCA has an optional raffle that hasn't done well. But, perhaps winnig 40K+ would make you not worry so much about how you spend $100?Fact - The VCA is healthier due to better revenue through raffles, and lower costs due to not paying randall's BF and Maurice, but the VCA costs presumably include IRS attorneys, so perhaps that's a wash as well.So my overall recommendation is to stick with the $ menu at McD, save the rest for an oil change, and sell the viper you clearly can't afford.To the rest of you, I dont see your questions on the VOA site? DOn't tell me you think what was posted there was factual, or complete? It's an insult to anyone who has actually seen a set of financials, but you never asked did you? If you want to have the look of bring impartial, perhaps you ask everyone the same questions?
    That's right man, you won't see those questions being asked at the Corn Hole Club. They delete ANYTHING or ban ANYBODY they perceive as threatening...and they must feel threatened by a lot. What a crock of $hit over there. They make a hundred page magazine and everybody lines up to post on a 20 page @ss licking fest. All the jerks migrated over there. Good for them.

  20. #20

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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    That's funny being called out by a non-member!!! Dude get a clue and maybe update the fact that you're from KC and not dallas. Oh - interesting that one of the centers of all the **** was from KC!

    Back on topic - my questions about membership are not that really out of line are they? Is it that hard to give a real answer?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ROCKET62 View Post
    That's funny being called out by a non-member!!! Dude get a clue and maybe update the fact that you're from KC and not dallas. Oh - interesting that one of the centers of all the **** was from KC!

    Back on topic - my questions about membership are not that really out of line are they? Is it that hard to give a real answer?
    No


    And I thought post 8 covered you're question. Is there something else your interested in?

  22. #22
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    At what point in the year do I automatically get renewal for 2016? I know at some point, October, November, December, I get 2016 as well. I am reluctant to join this late in the year and have to pay again in January.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: New Membership Categories and Membership Questions?

    Yes, if you join or renew after October 1, it is considered "early renewal" for the upcoming year and you will receive the benefits of the club for the duration of the current year.

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