What is the latest condition of the Barber instructor injured?

[JonB - PartsRack]

[quote]
"This was NOT a VCA event" .....what type of event was it then?

"Even if it was, it is my recollection that the VCA policy does not cover on-track activities" ...They do offer coverage if you notify them ahead of time....... [quote]



It was NOT a VCA event, it was a Viper Owners Invitational.
The VCA was not the host. I think if you ponder this for 10 seconds you will understand whose event it was.

Not being a VCA event, why would VCA insure it? The VCA coverage, like I thought and as you confirmed above, does not cover speed / track events.

If you think further, I bet you can understand who had an event insurance policy AS REQUIRED BY THE SPEEDWAY. In any case, the attorneys will soon "DISCOVER" all......

Be Safe Out There. Get Well Jeff.

[Leslie]

my thoughts and prayers go out to those injured and involved in this awful accident.

I think that's what the focus should be

[KepRght]

so what does this mean?

when someone offers to be your instructor, you say NO?

when someone forces you to have an instructor for safety, you say NO?

or you say NO, not unless you fill out & sign this waver releasing my driving skills and my cars shape of all liability?

if you go with this backwards logic, the driver should sue the instructor for bad instruction.

this kind of bs makes my blood boil.

don't go near a race track unless your ok with being injured or <u>dead</u>. its a track. accidents happen. people get hurt, and people die on the track. if you need a job where you wont get hurt, don't work at a race track. and don't work as an 'instructor of new drivers' for gods sake. no one forced you to take a job at the track. I'm sure you wanted to work at the track because you love fast cars. Being injured is one of the many side effects of working and enjoying fast cars. shame on you. im sorry the vca sent you donations.

[MoparMan]

Janni,
I've been mulling over your post for a few days now and I agree with everything you wrote. Currently, Our region is deciding whether or not to donate anything to the instructor. Our president is pushing those of us on the board to agree to a donation, but thus far myself (I'm the V.P.) and our secretary agree that we should not donate to this guy. Our president keeps us in the dark on just about everything he hears from national so could you please elaborate on what you meant when you said the donations were mildly extorted from the regions?

[RAYSIR]

I keep hearing of the "waivers" everyone signed. These waivers are as flimsy as the paper they are written. I used to get the waivers signed before taking friends in my airplanes. After talking to my attorney he just laughed. It does nothing to keep his wife,mother, sis or any body else from sueing for the grief you caused them. This is what or tort system has become. Also, I don't understand the relationship of Jeff to Barber driving. If he was an employee it would seem work comp would be taking care of it. But then that only protects the employer from lawsuit. I feel for all involved and sure hope all will be Okay.

[Randy]

Our region is deciding whether or not to donate anything to the instructor. Our president is pushing those of us on the board to agree to a donation, but thus far myself (I'm the V.P.) and our secretary agree that we should not donate to this guy. Our president keeps us in the dark on just about everything he hears from national so could you please elaborate on what you meant when you said the donations were mildly extorted from the regions?

I've seen some of the email threads concerning a possible donation from the regions, and I'm surprised by a perception of pressure to donate; either I've missed that email, or perception differs. To my knowledge, someone, I think it was Maurice (our president) simply put out a message to the region presidents suggesting monetary help, and many agreed, and one of the national officers was coordinating it. I've detected no pressure for the regions to donate, at least from the email I saw.

However, I believe any VCA donation would be put on hold until any potential litigation has resolved itself. The chief Skip Barber instructor sent an email saying there was no litigation currently being pursued against Skip Barber or the VCA (well, he wrote "VSA"; I would hope that was just a typo) by the injured instructor; but that notably did not discount possible litigation against the driver and/or the track. And, that could always change, too.

So, even if someone was perceiving pressure before, I doubt there would even be any possible feeling of pressure to donate at this time, since the potential issue of litigation was brought up.

[Warfang]

I wonder if this is one of the contributing factors to Barber dumping Dodge vehicles in their classes?

[MoparMan]

I would guess that decision was made well before VOI.

[Warfang]

I would guess that decision was made well before VOI.

I think so too, but there was some talk about possibly salvaging the relationship or even continue on a limited bases (Vipers only). This incident probably didn't help if that's the case.

[big-n-italian]

&lt;&lt; However, I believe any VCA donation would be put on hold until any potential litigation has resolved itself. &gt;&gt;

i think this is a great idea. i would hate to see any VCA donations help fund a lawsuit against the VCA.

[JonB - PartsRack]

&lt;&lt; However, I believe any VCA donation would be put on hold until any potential litigation has resolved itself. &gt;&gt;

i think this is a great idea. i would hate to see any VCA donations help fund a lawsuit against the VCA.

I have it on good authority that pending donations are currently being held, patiently. If you were a donor, and have questions, contact the person to whom you sent your check. If you dropped cash into a bin at VOI, some answer could come out after the VCA prez meeting. Or not.

[pdmracing]

I keep hearing of the "waivers" everyone signed. These waivers are as flimsy as the paper they are written. I used to get the waivers signed before taking friends in my airplanes. After talking to my attorney he just laughed. It does nothing to keep his wife,mother, sis or any body else from sueing for the grief you caused them. This is what or tort system has become. Also, I don't understand the relationship of Jeff to Barber driving. If he was an employee it would seem work comp would be taking care of it. But then that only protects the employer from lawsuit. I feel for all involved and sure hope all will be Okay.

The waiver you sign when entering any racetrack for driving purposes is so you will be COVERED by the insurance. The waiver you sign covers all that are at the event &amp; taking the Zone rendevouse @ road atlanta for an example a 5 million dollar coverage was in place. This coverage was provided by the Panoz school that we hired as instructors &amp; covered all particpants &amp; spectators who signed the waiver. Most policies include catostrophic medical provisions as well as any accidental death or dismembership.This applies to spectators too. By not signing the waiver you are not covered. Scca has simular coverage &amp; I know people who have had the insurance pay 100% of any injury they suffered at the track.

I am sure coverage was in place &amp; I would think the driver has absolutely no responsibility under any circumstances to have his own insurance cover the med costs of the instructor, supposed it was a track only car without med coverage? How would it be covered then? The last time I did a track event in a street car, noone asked me to provide proof of medical coverage or liability insurance.Nevermind the horrible precident of suing a driver on a race track. there are risks involved when anyone enters a track &amp; especially when instructing.

[JonB - PartsRack]

..... I am sure coverage was in place &amp; I would think the driver has absolutely no responsibility under any circumstances to have his own insurance cover the med costs of the instructor, supposed it was a track only car without med coverage? How would it be covered then? The last time I did a track event in a street car, noone asked me to provide proof of medical coverage or liability insurance.Nevermind the horrible precident of suing a driver on a race track. there are risks involved when anyone enters a track &amp; especially when instructing.

Well, you thought partly correct. No disrespect, but the liability policy undoubtedly in place is most likley a SECONDARY insurance, while the driver / owner, who cooperated fully in the process, furnished his auto policy as PRIMARY coverage. This covers the instructor's (passenger) medical and lost wages.

It is NOT a precedent, either. At Infineon this year, the widow is suing EVERYONE after a Ferrari track event / fatality killed a passenger. Even the worker who released-waved the cars out on track is getting sued.

And, injuries happened here at a VCA event in Pac-NW a few years ago. Allstate paid the instructor's ambulance, medical bills and lost wages. [due in large part to the fact that ALL DRIVERS SIGNED IN AS "STUDENT" on our waiver form. ALWAYS, Always DO THIS. All Instructors should -Always- sign in as "INSTRUCTOR" even if no line exists for 'duties'. ] If there is a dispute, the signature clearly shows your INTENT.

At VOI-6, none other than Mr. Skip Barber himself asked me how we handled that claim! Fortunately, that instructor was not as litigious, nor were his injuries as severe.

In the case of the SCCA insurance, it is PRIMARY coverage for workers and designated CREW members WHO ARE SCCA MEMBERS.

THERE ARE SOME LESSONS TO BE LEARNED HERE, FOR EVERYONE WHO EVER PLANS TO DRIVE, OR INSTRUCT ON A RACE TRACK.....

P.P.S. If you are a DIRECTOR AT LARGE as your AVTAR shows, please consider adding your name to your profile and signature? THANKS !

[pdmracing]

[quote}Well, you thought partly correct. No disrespect, but the liability policy undoubtedly in place is most likley a SECONDARY insurance, while the driver / owner, who cooperated fully in the process, furnished his auto policy as PRIMARY coverage. This covers the instructor's (passenger) medical and lost wages.

It is NOT a precedent, either. At Infineon this year, the widow is suing EVERYONE after a Ferrari track event / fatality killed a passenger. Even the worker who released-waved the cars out on track is getting sued.[quote}



FYI I was a safety officer for many years with another club &amp; I have to disagree with the secondary insurance &amp; scca insurance.If it were me , there is no way I would use my own insurance unless forced to. This was an on track event, with paid instructors &amp; an expectation that they knew the risks involved. Again Lets use premis that its a track only car, not registered &amp; with no insurance of any kind, unless insurance is specificly required by the sanctioning body at time of registration(many clubs do), the assumption that the participant is liable is not automatic.

SCCA indeed does cover participants, members &amp; non members alike,as well as spectators, sponsors ,vendors &amp; whoever else is there &amp; signs the waiver It even provides for up to $5 million for participant liability, I would guess to help in situations like this. For spectators &amp; non drivers see this link;

http://www.scca.org/Inside/Index.asp...025|000&amp;~=

members &amp; crew
http://www.scca.org/Inside/Index.asp...025|020&amp;~=

For a more in depth read: http://www.scca.org/Inside/Index.asp...080|025&amp;~=

The FCA Porsche incident you speak about is indeed an ongoing case, I may be wrong, but I dont think there has been sucessful litigation YET in an on track debacle. Could you imagine one driver suing another for wrecking them? We had a guy try to sue our PCA region because we let him go out on 2 different brand of tires &amp; he ended up totaling his new turbo. So indeed anything is possible.

The message is clear, know what you are getting into &amp; it pays to take the time to look into what coverage is available to you &amp; decide accordingly.

[JonB - PartsRack]

........Again Lets use premis that its a track only car, not registered &amp; with no insurance of any kind, unless insurance is specificly required by the sanctioning body at time of registration(many clubs do), the assumption that the participant is liable is not automatic........ The message is clear, know what you are getting into &amp; it pays to take the time to look into what coverage is available to you &amp; decide accordingly.

However, that premise is an apples-watermelons comparison, because that AIN'T what happened at VOI-9. And as I stated, the VCA/VOI driver "cooperated fully" with providing his insurance as primary coverage. (That's why he pays for it.) I suspect he could have clammed up and forced a subrogation battle. But he admitted taking the compassionate approach, and HE'S A NICE GUY! His reward? A lawsuit. And his insurance was canceled. And re-read his earlier posts.

Our semi-anonymous message IS clear tho..........I think we agree !